Just over two weeks ago in the thread "Are Playstore apps tested before
release?" I said that I was not going to update my phone (Xiaomi Redmi
Note 10 5G) for a couple of weeks and see if it updated automatically
despite it being set to /not/ update automatically.

At that time (16/07),
<https://support.google.com/product-documentation/answer/14343500>
stated that the current versions were:
Google Play Store v41.9
Google Play Services v24.27

According to the Muntashirakon App Manager (MAM) I installed the current
versions were:
Google Play Store 41.8.14-31
Google Play Services 24.26.32
(my phone's Settings stated the same)

Today, according to the support.google.com link the versions are:
Google Play Store v42.1 (2024-07-29)
Google Play Services v24.29 (2024-07-24)

Checking my phone today, MAM states:
Google Play Store 41.9.17-31 (26/07/2024)
Google Play Services 24.26.32 (12/07/2024)
(these remained unchanged after a reboot)

So it looks like my phone automatically updated Google Play Store
41.8.14-31 to 41.9.17-31, but hasn't updated Google Play Services
24.26.32 to 24.29. This seems strange, as the Play Services haven't been
updated since 12/07/2024, yet the Play Store was updated on 26/07
according to MAM. However, even that isn't the latest version according
to support.google.com.

I'm not sure where this leaves us. Why was one system app updated
automatically and the other one wasn't? Perhaps the Play Store update
was a security one and that overrode a "do not update automatically"
setting.

Oh well, I've now got quite a few app updates to do as I've been
avoiding them for over two weeks!

--
Jeff

On 8/1/2024 4:47 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:

>
> I'm not sure where this leaves us. Why was one system app updated
> automatically and the other one wasn't? Perhaps the Play Store update
> was a security one and that overrode a "do not update automatically"
> setting.
>

Google Play Store a system app? Why? Because it's Google?
I keep it disabled, along with any other Google crap that I
can disable. System updates will nag every time I start up
the phone. I have to be careful not to let them run. Awhile back
I accidentally let one run. I paid for it by now being pestered
with endless popups: "You should enable this!" "You should
enable that!"

I think it's sort of like Windows system DLLs vs Microsoft
Office or Copilot. The first is in a system update. The
second is only MS programs that they're trying to push.
Same with Google. They've thoroughly infested Android,
but Android is not a Google app and Google apps are not
Android.

Newyana2 wrote:

>   Google Play Store a system app? Why?

"Google Play Services" is not the same as "Google Play Store".

I would agree the name of the former isn't helpful, it really ought to
be called "Google Mobile Services" to correspond to its package name
"com.google.android.gms"

On 01/08/2024 13:11, Newyana2 wrote:
> On 8/1/2024 4:47 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm not sure where this leaves us. Why was one system app updated
>> automatically and the other one wasn't? Perhaps the Play Store update
>> was a security one and that overrode a "do not update automatically"
>> setting.
>>
>
> Google Play Store a system app? Why? Because it's Google?
> I keep it disabled, along with any other Google crap that I
> can disable. System updates will nag every time I start up
> the phone. I have to be careful not to let them run. Awhile back
> I accidentally let one run. I paid for it by now being pestered
> with endless popups: "You should enable this!" "You should
> enable that!"
>
> I think it's sort of like Windows system DLLs vs Microsoft
> Office or Copilot. The first is in a system update. The
> second is only MS programs that they're trying to push.
> Same with Google. They've thoroughly infested Android,
> but Android is not a Google app and Google apps are not
> Android.

Is there a definition for "System app"? FWIW, my Xiaomi has an option in
"Settings" called "System app settings". Those listed are Recorder,
Music, Call settings, Notes, Camera, Gallery, Security, System apps
updater, and Xiaomi cloud. To me, only Security and Call settings should
really be referred to as system apps. What have Music and Gallery got to
with the the way that Android works? I was going on the
support.google.com webpage being titled "Google System Release Notes".
Also, MAM refers to both Google Play Store and Google Play Services as
"System app". In contrast, for example, it refers to Brave and iPlayer
as "User app".

--
Jeff

On 8/1/24 7:21 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
>On 01/08/2024 13:11, Newyana2 wrote:
>> On 8/1/2024 4:47 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm not sure where this leaves us. Why was one system app updated
>>> automatically and the other one wasn't? Perhaps the Play Store update
>>> was a security one and that overrode a "do not update automatically"
>>> setting.
>>>
>>
>> Google Play Store a system app? Why? Because it's Google?
>> I keep it disabled, along with any other Google crap that I
>> can disable. System updates will nag every time I start up
>> the phone. I have to be careful not to let them run. Awhile back
>> I accidentally let one run. I paid for it by now being pestered
>> with endless popups: "You should enable this!" "You should
>> enable that!"
>>
>> I think it's sort of like Windows system DLLs vs Microsoft
>> Office or Copilot. The first is in a system update. The
>> second is only MS programs that they're trying to push.
>> Same with Google. They've thoroughly infested Android,
>> but Android is not a Google app and Google apps are not
>> Android.
>
>Is there a definition for "System app"? FWIW, my Xiaomi has an option in
>"Settings" called "System app settings". Those listed are Recorder,
>Music, Call settings, Notes, Camera, Gallery, Security, System apps
>updater, and Xiaomi cloud. To me, only Security and Call settings should
>really be referred to as system apps. What have Music and Gallery got to
>with the the way that Android works? I was going on the
>support.google.com webpage being titled "Google System Release Notes".
>Also, MAM refers to both Google Play Store and Google Play Services as
>"System app". In contrast, for example, it refers to Brave and iPlayer
>as "User app".

I'm posting this using an Amazon HD10 Fire Tablet which uses the Fire OS, an
Android fork. It's my favorite tablet because it's light and comfortable to
hold. But I was stuck with the Amazon Appstore which is limited. So I
installed Google Play Services and the Play Store on it and now have the
capability of a standard Android tablet. This newsreader came from the Play
Store for example. So are my newly installed Google Play Store and Play
Services apps on this Fire tablet now Fire OS system apps?

On 8/1/2024 7:21 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:

>
> Is there a definition for "System app"?
>

It may be up to the vendor.

On my Samsung tablet, anything that comes pre-installed is considered a
"System app". For example, Hancom Office Suite and Flipboard both come
pre-installed and appear/disappear from app settings when "Show system
apps" is toggled on/off.

Myself, I wouldn't consider them so, since they aren't a critical part
of the OS. In fact, I have both of those apps disabled.

-David

On 8/1/2024 10:21 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 01/08/2024 13:11, Newyana2 wrote:
>> On 8/1/2024 4:47 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm not sure where this leaves us. Why was one system app updated
>>> automatically and the other one wasn't? Perhaps the Play Store update
>>> was a security one and that overrode a "do not update automatically"
>>> setting.
>>>
>>
>>     Google Play Store a system app? Why? Because it's Google?
>> I keep it disabled, along with any other Google crap that I
>> can disable. System updates will nag every time I start up
>> the phone. I have to be careful not to let them run. Awhile back
>> I accidentally let one run. I paid for it by now being pestered
>> with endless popups: "You should enable this!" "You should
>> enable that!"
>>
>>      I think it's sort of like Windows system DLLs vs Microsoft
>> Office or Copilot. The first is in a system update. The
>> second is only MS programs that they're trying to push.
>> Same with Google. They've thoroughly infested Android,
>> but Android is not a Google app and Google apps are not
>> Android.
>
> Is there a definition for "System app"? FWIW, my Xiaomi has an option in
> "Settings" called "System app settings". Those listed are Recorder,
> Music, Call settings, Notes, Camera, Gallery, Security, System apps
> updater, and Xiaomi cloud. To me, only Security and Call settings should
> really be referred to as system apps. What have Music and Gallery got to
> with the the way that Android works? I was going on the
> support.google.com webpage being titled "Google System Release Notes".
> Also, MAM refers to both Google Play Store and Google Play Services as
> "System app". In contrast, for example, it refers to Brave and iPlayer
> as "User app".
>

I see what you mean. In that sense Notepad is also a system
app, coming with the system. But you were talking about system
updates. I have the Google apps mostly disabled. The Google
Play Store app, as I understand it, is involved with using their
store. A system update is an update to system files.

In the same way, a Windows update wouldn't update Microsoft
software like MSO. That would be separate. But I don't know
whether Google Play Store updates on its own or as part of
a system update. I only know that it's not necessary for my
cellphone's operation... and that system updates don't
install unless I allow it. Though they're very pushy. It's not
a yes-no choice. It's a now-later choice. It reminds me of the
old AOL login: "Would you like a new credit card?" The choices
were yes or ask me later. :)

with <v8g5kd$222tb$3@dont-email.me> Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 01/08/2024 13:11, Newyana2 wrote:
>> On 8/1/2024 4:47 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:

>>> I'm not sure where this leaves us. Why was one system app updated
>>> automatically and the other one wasn't? Perhaps the Play Store
>>> update was a security one and that overrode a "do not update
>>> automatically" setting.
>> Google Play Store a system app? Why? Because it's Google?
*SKIP* [ 10 lines 2 levels deep]
> Is there a definition for "System app"? FWIW, my Xiaomi has an option
> in "Settings" called "System app settings".

[disclaimer: still nugat] I'm not in position to define what 'system
app' is or isn't (because, I'm just a quite limited source of data for
google), but I think where .apk is stored somehow hints. For me it's
</system/app>, </system/vendor/app> and </data/app>. All databases,
caches, and whatever goes in </data/data/app>. Also UID and GID have
some value as encoding.

> Those listed are Recorder, Music, Call settings, Notes, Camera,
> Gallery, Security, System apps updater, and Xiaomi cloud. To me, only
> Security and Call settings should really be referred to as system
> apps. What have Music and Gallery got to with the the way that Android
> works? I was going on the support.google.com webpage being titled
> "Google System Release Notes". Also, MAM refers to both Google Play
> Store and Google Play Services as "System app". In contrast, for
> example, it refers to Brave and iPlayer as "User app".

Can you disable "FM Radio"? I can't. Android is full of mistery and
misery.

--
Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom