Chris wrote on Mon, 24 Jun 2024 10:51:58 -0000 (UTC) :

>> Here's a screenshot of Firebase App Indexing on my phone, Chris.
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/qR8zr72r/appindex01.jpg> All your Maps searches
>
> I'm happy for you. It doesn't answer the challenge I gave you.

Here's another example of Firebase App Indexing from my phone, Chris.
<https://i.postimg.cc/RF06HBB3/aurora05.jpg> Filtering out GSF APIs

Show me a screenshot of the Firebase App Indexing data on your phone Chris.
If you can't even do something that simple, you can't help anyone else.

Chris wrote on Mon, 24 Jun 2024 10:57:03 -0000 (UTC) :

>> So the real question is what "stuff" does Google no lump into Firebase?
>> The answer is NOT just the cloud, as they have advertising analytics also.
>
> It's literally all on wikipedia.

Where in that Wikipedia page do the words "Firebase App Indexing" show up?
Where even are the words "app indexing"? Or even the word "indexing" Chris?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firebase>

Andrew, 2024-06-24 11:22:

> Arno Welzel wrote on Mon, 24 Jun 2024 10:10:31 +0200 :
[...]
>> However since Google does no longer recommend using "Firebase App
>> Indexing" the old code samples got removed. But you can still access
>> them thanks to Git and the possibility to access older versions of the code:
>> <https://github.com/firebase/quickstart-android/tree/12d0ace067a11319d47109c98cb08f82275eca25/app-indexing>
>
> Again, I repeat. If this was so simple to answer, then even Chris would
> know how to answer it - so I appreciate that you're trying to help out.
>
> It's a difficult question to answer simply because there's not much about
> it, but the fact it's deprecated is nearly meaningless as it's on your
> phone right now - whether or not it's deprecated.

It *IS* simple:

1) Firebase is the whole product
2) Firebase App Indexing is one single feature of it
3) Firebase as a whole is connected to the Google Cloud

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Andrew, 2024-06-24 11:50:

[...]
> So the real question is what "stuff" does Google no lump into Firebase?

None. Everything is there. Firebase is in fact the connection Google
Services in the cloud - storage, messaging, analytics, search etc. etc...

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Andrew, 2024-06-24 19:37:

> Chris wrote on Mon, 24 Jun 2024 10:57:03 -0000 (UTC) :
>
>>> So the real question is what "stuff" does Google no lump into Firebase?
>>> The answer is NOT just the cloud, as they have advertising analytics also.
>>
>> It's literally all on wikipedia.
>
> Where in that Wikipedia page do the words "Firebase App Indexing" show up?
> Where even are the words "app indexing"? Or even the word "indexing" Chris?
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firebase>

Because Wikipedia is not an autoritative source and may miss things or
even contain errors.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Arno Welzel wrote on Thu, 27 Jun 2024 09:18:02 +0200 :

>> Chris wrote on Mon, 24 Jun 2024 10:57:03 -0000 (UTC) :
>>
>>>> So the real question is what "stuff" does Google no lump into Firebase?
>>>> The answer is NOT just the cloud, as they have advertising analytics also.
>>>
>>> It's literally all on wikipedia.
>>
>> Where in that Wikipedia page do the words "Firebase App Indexing" show up?
>> Where even are the words "app indexing"? Or even the word "indexing" Chris?
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firebase>
>
> Because Wikipedia is not an autoritative source and may miss things or
> even contain errors.

Exactly my point.

Chris said "It's literally all on Wikipedia", and in fact, it's not.

Chris sees one side of a double-sided description and Chris unilaterally
declares that there is nothing more to it than the one side he sees.

We know that's just dead wrong; Wikipedia barely scratches the surface.

It's no big deal now though Arno, as you kindly helped me understand that
Firebase is a trademark (most likely) that Google owns and which Google
uses to lump all sorts of completely unrelated "things" into that bundle.

My main point about Firebase is kind of like people who only read the first
side of a two-sided medicine explanation sheet from the pharmacy.

In that respect, there are only two kinds of people (for this purpose):
1. The kind that read one side and don't even KNOW there's another side
2. The kind that at least know there are two sides to the drug description

My point was that Firebase is so many different completely unrelated
things, that anyone who does NOT know that it's many things (most of which
have nothing to do with each other), then they just confuse everyone else
when they talk about Firebase when, in fact, they mean only a single
component of Firebase.

In this case, the component I was most interested in is the Firebase App
Indexing, which, is clear by now, has NOTHING to do with the components of
Firebase which are related to cloud storage back-end APIs linked into apps.

Thanks mostly to your patience and my persistence, this is well known by
all of us by now, and it's something we will never forget because we're
intelligent beings who can handle the level of detail necessary to
understand both sides of anything technical (including drug literature).

Thanks for all your help and kind advice.

Arno Welzel wrote on Thu, 27 Jun 2024 09:14:36 +0200 :

>> So the real question is what "stuff" does Google no lump into Firebase?
>
> None. Everything is there. Firebase is in fact the connection Google
> Services in the cloud - storage, messaging, analytics, search etc. etc...

I apologize for the "no" above which was supposed to be "now" but which can
be interpreted as "not" so you weren't sure what exactly I was asking.

We can summarize by now that anyone using the word Firebase without knowing
both sides of the sheet of paper on Firebase, doesn't know what Firebase
is, and, as a result of not knowing the other half, will just confuse
people.

That's what happened here.
None of us knew then what we know now.

A lot of times confusion reigns because people only know half the story;
and yet they think that the one half that they know is the whole story.

Such is with Firebase.

Firebase is not only a LOT more than just cloud storage APIs, but Firebase
is a lot more than App Idexing also; it's a ton of "stuff" lumped together.

Now we know that Google lumps into what they call Firebase a ton of
completely unrelated "stuff" (some of which is cloud based, much of which
has nothing whatsoever to do with the cloud).

That we know now.
We didn't know that when this thread was opened.

There's a reason I said that nobody understands Firebase, and there's a
reason I said that as a result, this would be a difficult question to
answer. The only people who thought it was easy are those who only read the
first page but who were completely unaware of the second page of Firebase.

Moving forward, I think the only thing left to unravel is what kind of data
is Google uploading when they periodically employ the SEND_INDEX feature of
the thing known as "Google Services: Google Firebase App Indexing".

It takes only seconds to *see* the Firebase App Index in action:
<https://i.postimg.cc/3Jcqm39B/firebaseindex02.jpg>
But it might take a while to figure out how to shut the darn thing off:
<https://i.postimg.cc/vB4hQnww/firebaseindex01.jpg>

(This is a request of everyone reading this thread, not just Arno.)
*What do you see when you look at YOUR Firebase App Indexing?*

Andrew, 2024-06-27 23:03:

[...]
> There's a reason I said that nobody understands Firebase, and there's a
> reason I said that as a result, this would be a difficult question to
> answer. The only people who thought it was easy are those who only read the
> first page but who were completely unaware of the second page of Firebase.

Well - let's say, Firebase is like Android itself - a collection of
things running on your smartphone.

It makes no sense at all to refer to "Firebase" when talking about
security relevant features. Always specify what component you are
talking about like "Firebase Cloud Messaging" or "Firebase App Indexing".

However I don't believe that Google wants to hide things or confuse
users - it's just many services where the guys at Google themself got
confused at some points how to name the things and how to organize
everything in a common library for developers.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Arno Welzel wrote on Sat, 29 Jun 2024 11:19:00 +0200 :

> Well - let's say, Firebase is like Android itself - a collection of
> things running on your smartphone.

Yup. I apologize for not understanding that Firebase is a collection of
unrelated "things" when I had originally opened this thread topic (only
some of which are cloud based and only some of which are search related).

There's no indication anyone knew how extensive Firebase is, in terms of
the collection of "stuff" it does so it's natural that this thread started
with a bit of confusion - but in the end - we all agree now what it is.

Suffice to say there are (at least) three 'beasts' from Google which impact
your privacy and which many developers appear to link into their APKs:
1. Google Mobile Services (mostly seems to be links to Google package APIs)
2. Google Services Framework (mostly seems to be links to Google spyware)
3. Firebase APIs (only some of which are clearly links to Google spyware)

The good news is the FOSS Google Play Store client can filter out apps
which incorporate GSF spyware into them - and my personal contacts with the
developers on XDA indicate they're working on adding a filter for GMS too.

As far as I know, there's no easy way to tell whether or not an app is
linking to the Firebase App Indexing search-related spyware (the index of
which is uploaded periodically to Google servers) though.

The only way I know to tell is to look in the Android settings under
"Google Services" for "Firebase App Indexing" (which is where I found it).

> It makes no sense at all to refer to "Firebase" when talking about
> security relevant features. Always specify what component you are
> talking about like "Firebase Cloud Messaging" or "Firebase App Indexing".

Now that I know what I know about Firebase, I heartily agree with you.

There's essentially no such thing as "Firebase" unless we lump these in it.
Google Services Firebase A/B Testing
Google Services Firebase AdMob
Google Services Firebase Analytics
Google Services Firebase App Indexing
Google Services Firebase Authentication
Google Services Firebase Cloud Firestore
Google Services Firebase Cloud Functions
Google Services Firebase Cloud Messaging
Google Services Firebase Cloud Storage
Google Services Firebase Crashlytics
Google Services Firebase Dynamic Links
Google Services Firebase Performance Monitoring
Google Services Firebase Realtime Database
Google Services Firebase Remote Config

> However I don't believe that Google wants to hide things or confuse
> users - it's just many services where the guys at Google themself got
> confused at some points how to name the things and how to organize
> everything in a common library for developers.

Oh, I worked in Silicon Valley R&D & Marketing for decades.
I know how it goes.

The engineers don't care what it's called - they each code each
functionality based on almost no common rules while the marketing loves to
lump things together into 'brand name recognition' categories.

That's why, for example, we saw "Google Project Mainline" change names so
many times, where I think it's now "Google Play Services updates" or
something like that (because "Google Play Store" has brand recognition
(which is why there are a LOT of "Google Play Services".

Me? I still call it Project Mainline (which is another lump of "stuff" that
most people don't have a clue what it is but let's not go there today).

In summary, thanks for helping me understand that anyone using just the
word "Firebase" probably doesn't know what they're talking about - as it's
a meaningless name for a plethora of completely unrelated capabilities.

Moving forward, what would be nice is to find a surefire way to tell if an
app has linked in the Firebase code - where the way I do it is to turn on
Developer options - which adds the Firebase App Indexing to the Google
Services part of the Android menu.

But App Indexing is only one component of Firebase (as you know).

So we still need a surefire way to tell if any of the rest of the various
and sundry components of Firebase are included in an APK.