>
> The current field is controlled and tailored as the first comers
> negotiated. Google and friends. Now comes a new player, Apple,
> reluctantly, and wants to change the existing landscape to their liking.
> Well, they will have to negotiate hard to do that. If they can convince
> the existing players.
>
> Never mind, we will have RCS all around in a few years. It will come.
> Just be patient and eat pop corn as they play out :-)
>

I wouldn't be so sure.

If you still have any video cassettes they are likely to be VHS

Your Name wrote:

> If RCS is so ubiquitous and important on "all" Android phones, then the
> companies should already have RCS setup on their networks

My network provider previously ran their own RCS service which they
subsequently migrated to using the Jibe/Google service, I doubt they're
alone in that ...

Abandoned Trolley, 2024-06-27 09:51:

>
>>
>> The current field is controlled and tailored as the first comers
>> negotiated. Google and friends. Now comes a new player, Apple,
>> reluctantly, and wants to change the existing landscape to their liking.
>> Well, they will have to negotiate hard to do that. If they can convince
>> the existing players.
>>
>> Never mind, we will have RCS all around in a few years. It will come.
>> Just be patient and eat pop corn as they play out :-)
>>
>
>
> I wouldn't be so sure.

I would:

<https://webstrategiesblog.com/apples-rcs-adoption-in-ios-18/>

<https://www.campaignregistry.com/a-monumental-day-for-rcs-apples-adoption-and-the-future-of-messaging/>

Of course Apple does not really like that, since they are more or less
forced to support RCS and would prefer keeping their users in their own
golden cage with iMessage. But nevertheless - when iOS and Android both
support RCS and RCS is mandatory, there is no reason why it should be
around as universal standard similar to SMS nowadays.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Andy Burns, 2024-06-27 10:26:

> Your Name wrote:
>
>> If RCS is so ubiquitous and important on "all" Android phones, then the
>> companies should already have RCS setup on their networks
>
> My network provider previously ran their own RCS service which they
> subsequently migrated to using the Jibe/Google service, I doubt they're
> alone in that ...

Well - Jibe *is* RCS...

<https://jibe.google.com/jibe-platform/>

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Arno Welzel wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> My network provider previously ran their own RCS service which they
>> subsequently migrated to using the Jibe/Google service, I doubt they're
>> alone in that ...
>
> Well - Jibe *is* RCS...
> <https://jibe.google.com/jibe-platform/>

Jibe are/were not the *sole* RCS provider, though it may be moving in
that direction ...

>
> <https://webstrategiesblog.com/apples-rcs-adoption-in-ios-18/>
>
> <https://www.campaignregistry.com/a-monumental-day-for-rcs-apples-adoption-and-the-future-of-messaging/>
>
> Of course Apple does not really like that, since they are more or less
> forced to support RCS and would prefer keeping their users in their own
> golden cage with iMessage. But nevertheless - when iOS and Android both
> support RCS and RCS is mandatory, there is no reason why it should be
> around as universal standard similar to SMS nowadays.
>
>

Neither of those "news" items add anything to the discussion, and
there’s nothing to suggest that using the RCS service will ever be
mandatory.

Right at the moment, I can’t think of anybody who is missing out on a
"messaging" platform. The sending or sharing of text / pictures and
other media is well catered for, along with enough apps for voice and
video telephony with our without the aid of Apple - and almost anything
can be attached to an email.

SMS may be a "universal" standard but its unreliable and has no
guaranteed level of service - ESMCP has been developed in order to avoid
using it. So it seems curious to me that global SMS volumes continue to
grow

Whatever it is that RCS is going to bring to this party, I think it will
have to be fairly spectacular and probably free at the point of service
otherwise I am not sure how it’s going to grow in a already saturated
market.

If Apple don’t work out some way of tuning it in to a revenue stream
then they will soon lose interest

On Tue, 25 Jun 2024 10:56:53 -0400, Gelato <gelato@.is.invalid>
wrote:

> Once Apple supports RCS & after the carriers support their iOS RCS bundles,
> what problems will be solved when RCS is finally working on both platforms?

Only Apple's problem is solved: Apple will be able to track
those messages.
No user or carrier gets any better by it.

--
Kees Nuyt

On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 08:35:36 +0200, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:

>RCS is is implemented and supported by almost all networks for years.

The OP included the newsgroup uk.telecom.mobile. What you have
written is incorrect for the UK.

Vodafone discontinued their RCS service March, 2023; O2
discontinued their RCS service in October, 2023. Their customers
now use Google/Jibe.

I have been unable to find anything definite about Three or EE
but suspect they are also using Google/Jibe.
--
Roger

On 2024-06-25 18:14, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 25.06.24 um 17:55 schrieb Richmond:
>> RCS can support end to end encryption.
>
> No it can't. At the edge of the networks it is always broken.

Once a standard is agreed to - it will have it - Google push theirs,
Apple (for example) prefer an open standard. In time.

--
"It would be a measureless disaster if Russian barbarism overlaid
the culture and independence of the ancient States of Europe."
Winston Churchill

On 2024-06-25 18:30, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 25.06.24 um 22:35 schrieb Alan Browne:
>> On 2024-06-25 10:56, Gelato wrote:
>>> Once Apple supports RCS & after the carriers support their iOS RCS
>>> bundles,
>>> what problems will be solved when RCS is finally working on both
>>> platforms?
>>
>> Hopefully the problem of transparently sending large files from(to) iOS
>> to(from) Android with little effort or loss.  Hopefully avoiding the
>> "phone" paradigm along the way.  And of course the whole encryption
>> issue also needs to be worked out so that it is not Google oriented.
>
> Only the real amateurs and houswifes do it that way.
> *ROTFSTC*

You're an ass as usual. I move files according to what is needed for
security (95% of the time: none) and then convenience.

With a Mac the most convenient is Message - as long as the counter party
is also using a Mac or iOS/iPad device - and that is also secure.

With RCS and proper end-to-end encryption then I'd be able to send such
to people with Android as well.

In the meantime there are other solutions.

--
"It would be a measureless disaster if Russian barbarism overlaid
the culture and independence of the ancient States of Europe."
Winston Churchill

On 2024-06-27 03:51, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
>
>>
>> The current field is controlled and tailored as the first comers
>> negotiated. Google and friends. Now comes a new player, Apple,
>> reluctantly, and wants to change the existing landscape to their
>> liking. Well, they will have to negotiate hard to do that. If they can
>> convince the existing players.
>>
>> Never mind, we will have RCS all around in a few years. It will come.
>> Just be patient and eat pop corn as they play out :-)
>>
>
>
> I wouldn't be so sure.
>
> If you still have any video cassettes they are likely to be VHS

My old boss still has a huge Betamax library. Quality is still very
good (for videotape).

I have some VHS cassettes left - can't seem to sell or give them away...
all personal stuff has been moved to digital.

--
"It would be a measureless disaster if Russian barbarism overlaid
the culture and independence of the ancient States of Europe."
Winston Churchill

On 2024-06-27 05:13, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Abandoned Trolley, 2024-06-27 09:51:
>
>>
>>>
>>> The current field is controlled and tailored as the first comers
>>> negotiated. Google and friends. Now comes a new player, Apple,
>>> reluctantly, and wants to change the existing landscape to their liking.
>>> Well, they will have to negotiate hard to do that. If they can convince
>>> the existing players.
>>>
>>> Never mind, we will have RCS all around in a few years. It will come.
>>> Just be patient and eat pop corn as they play out :-)
>>>
>>
>>
>> I wouldn't be so sure.
>
> I would:
>
> <https://webstrategiesblog.com/apples-rcs-adoption-in-ios-18/>
>
> <https://www.campaignregistry.com/a-monumental-day-for-rcs-apples-adoption-and-the-future-of-messaging/>
>
> Of course Apple does not really like that, since they are more or less
> forced to support RCS and would prefer keeping their users in their own
> golden cage with iMessage.

What golden cage? I can text anyone anywhere. E-mail anyone anywhere.

Etc.

--
"It would be a measureless disaster if Russian barbarism overlaid
the culture and independence of the ancient States of Europe."
Winston Churchill

On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 10:22:18 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

> Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> My network provider previously ran their own RCS service which they
>>> subsequently migrated to using the Jibe/Google service, I doubt they're
>>> alone in that ...
>>
>> Well - Jibe *is* RCS...
>> <https://jibe.google.com/jibe-platform/>
>
> Jibe are/were not the *sole* RCS provider, though it may be moving in
> that direction ...

Is there a way for a phone user who is not on Jibe to get RCS now?

Nick Cine wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Jibe are/were not the *sole* RCS provider, though it may be moving in
>> that direction ...
>
> Is there a way for a phone user who is not on Jibe to get RCS now?

I don't think the user gets to choose, the network operator sends out a
provisioning message with the RCS settings.

As Roger mentionedm my operator (O₂) moved to Jibe last October, I'll
take his word about Vodafone, not sure about other MNOs an MVNOs?

On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 20:37:38 +0100, Andy Burns
<usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

>Nick Cine wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> Jibe are/were not the *sole* RCS provider, though it may be moving in
>>> that direction ...
>>
>> Is there a way for a phone user who is not on Jibe to get RCS now?
>
>I don't think the user gets to choose, the network operator sends out a
>provisioning message with the RCS settings.
>
>As Roger mentionedm my operator (O?) moved to Jibe last October, I'll
>take his word about Vodafone, not sure about other MNOs an MVNOs?

Links re Vodafone.

> https://forum.vodafone.co.uk/t5/Android/RCS-Unsupported/m-p/2727991

> https://9to5google.com/2023/03/27/vodafone-rcs-messages-android/

> https://9to5google.com/2023/02/21/vodafone-rcs-google-deal/

> https://www.telecoms.com/mobile-messaging/30-years-after-sending-the-first-text-vodafone-opts-for-google-rcs

I haven't been able to find anything similar regarding EE or
Three.
--
Roger

Am 27.06.24 um 15:11 schrieb Roger:
> On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 08:35:36 +0200, Jörg Lorenz
> <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>> RCS is is implemented and supported by almost all networks for years.
>
> The OP included the newsgroup uk.telecom.mobile. What you have
> written is incorrect for the UK.

This group is not only about the UK. And certainly not because a user
impolitely X-posted to other groups. Main topic is "iOS 18 beta RCS
integration".

> Vodafone discontinued their RCS service March, 2023; O2
> discontinued their RCS service in October, 2023. Their customers
> now use Google/Jibe.

Obviously a very very recent development increasing complexity and
confusion even further. As iPhone-user I do not care at all and neither
do I as Pixel-user on the Continent.

> I have been unable to find anything definite about Three or EE
> but suspect they are also using Google/Jibe.

Go to their websites.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

W Tue, 25 Jun 2024 07:20:48 -0400, Newyana2 napisal:

> Is there a reason to care about this? Is there a reason for RCS?
> What? Because Gen-Zers are afraid of the word "email"?

Gizmodo lists the problems that should be solved when RCS is in iOS.
https://gizmodo.com/apple-messages-supports-rcs-ios18-beta-1851562461

"Audio and video sent between devices will no longer be compressed down."

"Group chats will no longer be butchered and broken as friends and family
attempt to find common ground, such as who will bring the dessert to the
gathering."

"And you'll see when an iPhone user has left you, dear Android
user, on read."

Also for those who pay for MMS messages on a per-byte basis, RCS will
eliminate that fee; but that's not the main purpose of using RCS overall.

> I looked
> it up and as far as I can see it's just email with spying, like what
> ConstantContact have done with javascript.

Whenever you habitually log into a server on the Internet with a username
and password (as with Apple's messaging for their golden cage iMessages),
you're going to be subject to the privacy denuding whims of spycraft,
particularly in the saving, detection & probing of all the meta data
surrounding each and every message.

With RCS I think people can avoid logging into Apple's messaging servers.

W Thu, 27 Jun 2024 12:35:13 +0200, Kees Nuyt napisal:

>> Once Apple supports RCS & after the carriers support their iOS RCS bundles,
>> what problems will be solved when RCS is finally working on both platforms?
>
> Only Apple's problem is solved: Apple will be able to track
> those messages.
> No user or carrier gets any better by it.

Gizmodo lists the problems that should be solved when RCS is in iOS.
https://gizmodo.com/apple-messages-supports-rcs-ios18-beta-1851562461

"Audio and video sent between devices will no longer be compressed down."

"Group chats will no longer be butchered and broken as friends and family
attempt to find common ground, such as who will bring the dessert to the
gathering."

"And you'll see when an iPhone user has left you, dear Android
user, on read."

Also for those who pay for MMS messages on a per-byte basis, RCS will
eliminate that fee; but that's not the main purpose of using RCS overall.

It still doesn't solve the problem that Apple users are habitually logging
into messaging servers on the Internet which exposes them to metadata
privacy losses.

> My old boss still has a huge Betamax library.  Quality is still very
> good (for videotape).
>
> I have some VHS cassettes left - can't seem to sell or give them away...
> all personal stuff has been moved to digital.
>

The point I was making was that VHS became the dominant force in the
marketplace despite being (by some distance) the worst performing
technology at the time - a bit like audio cassettes.

Merely being "good" or even miles better than something that is already
established in the marketplace might not be enough.

Worse still ... it’s not a zero-sum game - in theory we could all have
all of this stuff.

Also, in a "normal" marketplace, new entrants can disrupt by competing
on price - I can't see that happening here

Am 28.06.24 um 04:07 schrieb Jan K.:
> W Tue, 25 Jun 2024 07:20:48 -0400, Newyana2 napisal:
>
>> Is there a reason to care about this? Is there a reason for RCS?
>> What? Because Gen-Zers are afraid of the word "email"?
>
> Gizmodo lists the problems that should be solved when RCS is in iOS.
> https://gizmodo.com/apple-messages-supports-rcs-ios18-beta-1851562461

There are simply no problems for iOS-users. Only some Android-users are
yammering and whining.

> "Audio and video sent between devices will no longer be compressed down."
>
> "Group chats will no longer be butchered and broken as friends and family
> attempt to find common ground, such as who will bring the dessert to the
> gathering."

Is done on WhatsApp or other messengers for over a decade. RCS is not
adding any value to the communication options.

--
"Manus manum lavat."

Am 28.06.24 um 09:13 schrieb Jörg Lorenz:
> Am 28.06.24 um 04:07 schrieb Jan K.:
>> W Tue, 25 Jun 2024 07:20:48 -0400, Newyana2 napisal:
>>
>>> Is there a reason to care about this? Is there a reason for RCS?
>>> What? Because Gen-Zers are afraid of the word "email"?
>>
>> Gizmodo lists the problems that should be solved when RCS is in iOS.
>> https://gizmodo.com/apple-messages-supports-rcs-ios18-beta-1851562461
>
> There are simply no problems for iOS-users. Only some Android-users are
> yammering and whining.
>
>> "Audio and video sent between devices will no longer be compressed down."
>>
>> "Group chats will no longer be butchered and broken as friends and family
>> attempt to find common ground, such as who will bring the dessert to the
>> gathering."
>
> Is done on WhatsApp or other messengers for over a decade. RCS is not
> adding any value to the communication options.

Arlen you are a Nazi-style demagogue. The last paragraph is the relevant
part of the article:

"What will be interesting to see is whether users will migrate back to
the default messages app for inter-platform communication. For instance,
I’ve preferred my WhatsApp experience for sharing high-res messages with
my iPhone-using peeps. But I also think they likely want to go back to
Apple Messages to chat with me, their one Android-using best friend,
where they already chat with everyone else. We’ll see how it lands when
iOS 18 hits iPhones this fall."

--
"Manus manum lavat."

Am 27.06.24 um 04:59 schrieb Jan K.:
> W Tue, 25 Jun 2024 16:35:44 -0400, Alan Browne napisal:
>
>>> Once Apple supports RCS & after the carriers support their iOS RCS bundles,
>>> what problems will be solved when RCS is finally working on both platforms?
>>
>> Hopefully the problem of transparently sending large files from(to) iOS
>> to(from) Android with little effort or loss. Hopefully avoiding the
>> "phone" paradigm along the way. And of course the whole encryption
>> issue also needs to be worked out so that it is not Google oriented.
>
> Gizmodo lists the problems that should be solved when RCS is in iOS.
> https://gizmodo.com/apple-messages-supports-rcs-ios18-beta-1851562461
>
> "Audio and video sent between devices will no longer be compressed down.
> Group chats will no longer be butchered and broken as friends and family
> attempt to find common ground, such as who will bring the dessert to the
> gathering. And you'll see when an iPhone user has left you, dear Android
> user, on read."

Everything already realised in messengers which are much more secure for
over a decade. Arlen, you are bullshitting like always.

What will be interesting to see is whether users will migrate back to
the default messages app for inter-platform communication. For instance,
I’ve preferred my WhatsApp experience for sharing high-res messages with
my iPhone-using peeps. But I also think they likely want to go back to
Apple Messages to chat with me, their one Android-using best friend,
where they already chat with everyone else. We’ll see how it lands when
iOS 18 hits iPhones this fall.

--
"Manus manum lavat."

Am 27.06.24 um 12:35 schrieb Kees Nuyt:
> On Tue, 25 Jun 2024 10:56:53 -0400, Gelato <gelato@.is.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Once Apple supports RCS & after the carriers support their iOS RCS bundles,
>> what problems will be solved when RCS is finally working on both platforms?
>
> Only Apple's problem is solved: Apple will be able to track
> those messages.
> No user or carrier gets any better by it.

+1

--
"Manus manum lavat."

Am 27.06.24 um 21:13 schrieb Alan Browne:
> On 2024-06-25 18:30, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 25.06.24 um 22:35 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>> On 2024-06-25 10:56, Gelato wrote:
>>>> Once Apple supports RCS & after the carriers support their iOS RCS
>>>> bundles,
>>>> what problems will be solved when RCS is finally working on both
>>>> platforms?
>>>
>>> Hopefully the problem of transparently sending large files from(to) iOS
>>> to(from) Android with little effort or loss.  Hopefully avoiding the
>>> "phone" paradigm along the way.  And of course the whole encryption
>>> issue also needs to be worked out so that it is not Google oriented.
>>
>> Only the real amateurs and houswifes do it that way.
>> *ROTFSTC*
>
> You're an ass as usual. I move files according to what is needed for
> security (95% of the time: none) and then convenience.

A server- or a cloud-link is much faster, more convenient, more secure,
more versatile and in the case of confident material much much more
private. Google with its platform is never trustworthy. Under no
circumstances.

*You are an amateur*

--
"Manus manum lavat."

Jörg Lorenz wrote:

> RCS is not adding any value to the communication options.
For some of us (edge cases perhaps) it will.

I use android, as do the majority of my friends/colleagues, but a
minority use iphone. I refuse to use Messenger/WhatsApp, they've never
heard of Signal/Telegram.

The only ways I can send them photos is MMS (which is expensive, so I
only do it rarely) or email, which some of them don't have on their
phones ... RCS does add value in that case.