Any preferences here - and why?

--
Jim the Geordie

On 5/3/24 4:29 PM, Jim the Geordie wrote:
> Any preferences here - and why?

I have often wondered about the value of any of these. What's wrong
with a credit card which gives you a rebate?

--
Cheers, Bev
VISE GRIPS (VYS'-gripz) [n] A tool used to transfer intense
welding heat to the palm of the welder's hand. -- DS

Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:

> Any preferences here - and why?

Naming is confusing. Google introduced Wallet in 2011, changed to Pay
in 2015, and then back to Wallet in 2022. Google Pay shuts down in
2024, and Google Wallet takes over. Samsung started with Pay in 2015,
but changed to Wallet in some countries. Sounds like a bad takeoff on
the "Who's on First" skit. Looks like Wallet is the current term for
both services.

The only time a comparison between these has value is *if* you have a
Samsung phone. Samsung Wallet is locked to Samsung Galaxy phones. On a
Samsung phone, you can elect to use Samsung Wallet or Google Pay. On
non-Samsung phones, it's just Google Pay, or some other mobile pay app
other than Samsung Wallet. What phone you have dicatates which you can
use. Apple has their own Pay for their walled garden platform.

Do you have a Samsung Galaxy phone? For a non-Samsung phone, does yours
have the NFC (Near Field Communication) radio? This is an Android
newsgroup, but another point is Google Wallet is not available for
iPhones.

https://www.androidpolice.com/google-wallet-vs-samsung-pay-mobile-payment-apps/

Which you can use depends on which the retailer supports. Maybe they
accept both, but they may accept only one. Most stores will accept my
American Express credit card, but some don't. Since Samsung phones can
use either Samsung Wallet or Google Wallet, and presuming you set up
both, you won't get rejected at the retailer. Use whichever works.

https://www.businessofapps.com/data/mobile-payments-app-market/
(see "Mobile payments users by app" section for app usage chart.)

According to the above article, Google Wallet has wider acceptance than
Samsung Wallet. When looking at market share of mobile payment apps,
it's Apple Pay and Google Wallet at the top. Samsung Wallet is a
distant third. It's popularity is primarily with Samsung Galaxy phone
owners.

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

> Jim the Geordie wrote:
>
>> Any preferences here - and why?
>
> I have often wondered about the value of any of these. What's wrong
> with a credit card which gives you a rebate?

I would think whether you get cashback, or not, from your mobile payment
app (e.g., Google Wallet, Samsung Wallet, Apple Pay, etc) depends on who
is the backing institution for the financial transactions.

https://support.google.com/wallet/thread/211538270/how-can-i-get-cashback-from-google-wallet-from-my-phone

Likely you can't use reward programs, like getting points accrued with
purchases that you can use to discount other purchases (e.g., gas
discount with purchases from a grocery store or pharmacy). But then
most rewards programs use their own separate customer cards to track
reward grants at purchase. Rewards programs aren't cashback programs.
Rebates are mostly company script programs: you can only spend the
rebate credits at the store where you accrued them.

On 2024-05-04 06:01, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 5/3/24 4:29 PM, Jim the Geordie wrote:
>> Any preferences here - and why?
>
> I have often wondered about the value of any of these.  What's wrong
> with a credit card which gives you a rebate?

No rebate here.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2024-05-04 01:29, Jim the Geordie wrote:
> Any preferences here - and why?

I don't have a Samsung, so it has to be Google pay.

If I have the phone already out, to use the supermarket app when paying
(dynamic discounts), then paying with the phone is easier/faster.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

The Real Bev, 2024-05-04 06:01:

> On 5/3/24 4:29 PM, Jim the Geordie wrote:
>> Any preferences here - and why?
>
> I have often wondered about the value of any of these. What's wrong
> with a credit card which gives you a rebate?

You don't need to take the credit card with you and payments are only
possible when at least the screen is active which is more secure than
just using NFC without any protection at all. Often smaller amounts can
be booked without PIN confirmation to make NFC more "convinient". But
this also means anyone using a mobile NFC reader can just get money from
your card.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Jim the Geordie, 2024-05-04 01:29:

> Any preferences here - and why?

Samsung Wallet only works with Samsung devices but not on my ancient
Samsung Gear S3 and probably also not because I am not based in US.

So I use Google Wallet ("Google Pay" was renamed) which works fine and
can even be used in newer smartwatches if they are based on WearOS like
Ticwatch Pro 5.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On 4.5.24 5:01 am, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 5/3/24 4:29 PM, Jim the Geordie wrote:
>> Any preferences here - and why?
>
> I have often wondered about the value of any of these. What's wrong
> with a credit card which gives you a rebate?
>
>
If your credit card gives you rebate, you will still get it when using
that card via Google Pay - or Paypal, too. In the UK is my Amex card
gives me the most cashback, but some retailers won't accept it directly
because Amex charge them such high fees. Using Amex via Google or
Paypal I still get the cashback and the same retailers accept the
payment without question. The downside is that you may not get Section
75 protection via a third party (but may still get chargeback from the
bank and Paypal have their own cover), but as we don't get Section 75
cover below £100 anyway in the UK, that is no loss to me. If I'm buying
items over £100 I use the credit card direct.

--
Tetbury, Gloucestershire , UK

On 4.5.24 10:06 am, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Jim the Geordie, 2024-05-04 01:29:
>
>> Any preferences here - and why?
>
> Samsung Wallet only works with Samsung devices but not on my ancient
> Samsung Gear S3 and probably also not because I am not based in US.
>
> So I use Google Wallet ("Google Pay" was renamed) which works fine and
> can even be used in newer smartwatches if they are based on WearOS like
> Ticwatch Pro 5.
>

The ability to pay by smartwatch is very handy - I use it nearly all the
time. It has an additional advantage - when paying bills to young
counter assistants or waiters, they can't believe that an old geezer of
80 can understand the technology when they frequently struggle with it.
I like to score the odd point for the old folk when I can <grin>

--
Tetbury, Gloucestershire , UK

In article <v14bui$1117t$1@dont-email.me>, bashley101@gmail.com says...
>
> On 5/3/24 4:29 PM, Jim the Geordie wrote:
> > Any preferences here - and why?
>
> I have often wondered about the value of any of these. What's wrong
> with a credit card which gives you a rebate?

You can use credit cards as well as debit.
I use it because I always I always have my phone, but seldom carry my
card.
Yes I have a Samsung or I wouldn't have asked and yes I have NFC.

I simply wondered whether the physical action of paying is simpler with
one or are they both the same.
The question arises because I often get asked (by a bloody machine!) to
try my fingerprint again when it had already accepted it 5 seconds
earlir. Grr.

These answers are to the group and not particularly to you Bev.

--
Jim the Geordie

On 2024-05-04 12:20, Bob Henson wrote:
> On 4.5.24 10:06 am, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Jim the Geordie, 2024-05-04 01:29:
>>
>>> Any preferences here - and why?
>>
>> Samsung Wallet only works with Samsung devices but not on my ancient
>> Samsung Gear S3 and probably also not because I am not based in US.
>>
>> So I use Google Wallet ("Google Pay" was renamed) which works fine and
>> can even be used in newer smartwatches if they are based on WearOS like
>> Ticwatch Pro 5.
>>
>
> The ability to pay by smartwatch is very handy - I use it nearly all the
> time. It has an additional advantage - when paying bills to young
> counter assistants or waiters, they can't believe that an old geezer of
> 80 can understand the technology when they frequently struggle with it.
> I like to score the odd point for the old folk when I can <grin>

Heh. You have convinced me :-D

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 5/4/2024 12:01 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 5/3/24 4:29 PM, Jim the Geordie wrote:
>> Any preferences here - and why?
>
> I have often wondered about the value of any of these.  What's wrong
> with a credit card which gives you a rebate?
>

I think it's just part of the cellphone ubiquity trend. People
don't want to have to leave their cellphone for anything.
For a non-cellphone-addict it's an awkward bottleneck to
use 3rd-party (spyware) pay services. For the average
cellphone addict (90+% of people) it seems like a brilliant
idea to just set up one e-servant to handle all of your
transactions and paperwork.

That's becoming increasingly true. Just a few years ago,
Apple Pay and "wallets" were not accepted in most places.
Today, in urban areas, it's possible to live almost exclusively
by cellphone.

On 04.05.24 01:29, Jim the Geordie wrote:
> Any preferences here - and why?

I do not use any of them and I also do not use Apple Pay.

1) I do not see any added value
2) I do not want tech companies in the financial sector in any way

--
"Mille viae ducunt hominem per saecula Romam." (Alanus ab Insulis 1120-1202)

On 04.05.24 09:05, VanguardLH wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Jim the Geordie wrote:
>>
>>> Any preferences here - and why?
>>
>> I have often wondered about the value of any of these. What's wrong
>> with a credit card which gives you a rebate?
>
> I would think whether you get cashback, or not, from your mobile payment
> app (e.g., Google Wallet, Samsung Wallet, Apple Pay, etc) depends on who
> is the backing institution for the financial transactions.
>
> https://support.google.com/wallet/thread/211538270/how-can-i-get-cashback-from-google-wallet-from-my-phone
>
> Likely you can't use reward programs, like getting points accrued with
> purchases that you can use to discount other purchases (e.g., gas
> discount with purchases from a grocery store or pharmacy). But then
> most rewards programs use their own separate customer cards to track
> reward grants at purchase. Rewards programs aren't cashback programs.
> Rebates are mostly company script programs: you can only spend the
> rebate credits at the store where you accrued them.

Economically these are pervers schemes to systematically disguise the
true costs of goods and services and to limit fair competition.

--
"Mille viae ducunt hominem per saecula Romam." (Alanus ab Insulis 1120-1202)

On 5/4/24 1:22 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2024-05-04 06:01, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 5/3/24 4:29 PM, Jim the Geordie wrote:
>>> Any preferences here - and why?
>>
>> I have often wondered about the value of any of these.  What's wrong
>> with a credit card which gives you a rebate?
>
> No rebate here.

A free Citibank card gives 2% back on everything. A free US Bank card
gives 5% back on ut8lities. I don't see how tapping/sliding the card on
the machine could be any more difficult than <whatever-pay/wallet>.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Never keep up with the Joneses. Drag them down to your level.
It's cheaper." -- Quentin Crisp 1908 - 1999

On 5/4/24 3:31 AM, Jim the Geordie wrote:
> In article <v14bui$1117t$1@dont-email.me>, bashley101@gmail.com says...
>>
>> On 5/3/24 4:29 PM, Jim the Geordie wrote:
>> > Any preferences here - and why?
>>
>> I have often wondered about the value of any of these. What's wrong
>> with a credit card which gives you a rebate?
>
> You can use credit cards as well as debit.

So it's just another layer? I can see how it would be handy if you can
use your watch. Is such a smartwatch usable all by itself, or does it
have to be in contact with your phone?

> I use it because I always I always have my phone, but seldom carry my
> card.

Exactly the opposite. I walk to the gym and can just put the card in my
velcro-flap pocket without worrying about it falling out or me falling
on it and breaking it -- just in case I want to stop at Trader Joe's or
the supermarket on my way home. I only carry my phone when I think I
might need it or want to use the camera.

> Yes I have a Samsung or I wouldn't have asked and yes I have NFC.
>
> I simply wondered whether the physical action of paying is simpler with
> one or are they both the same.
> The question arises because I often get asked (by a bloody machine!) to
> try my fingerprint again when it had already accepted it 5 seconds
> earlir. Grr.

The fingerprint reader at the gym I used before The Plague ALWAYS failed
and required assistance from the attendant. I refuse to use the reader
on my phone, which is probably even less reliable.

> These answers are to the group and not particularly to you Bev.

That's why we have groups :-)

--
Cheers, Bev
My computer doesn't have to be friendly;
civil is entirely sufficient.

On 5/4/24 3:31 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2024-05-04 12:20, Bob Henson wrote:
>> On 4.5.24 10:06 am, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> Jim the Geordie, 2024-05-04 01:29:
>>>
>>>> Any preferences here - and why?
>>>
>>> Samsung Wallet only works with Samsung devices but not on my ancient
>>> Samsung Gear S3 and probably also not because I am not based in US.
>>>
>>> So I use Google Wallet ("Google Pay" was renamed) which works fine and
>>> can even be used in newer smartwatches if they are based on WearOS like
>>> Ticwatch Pro 5.
>>>
>>
>> The ability to pay by smartwatch is very handy - I use it nearly all the
>> time. It has an additional advantage - when paying bills to young
>> counter assistants or waiters, they can't believe that an old geezer of
>> 80 can understand the technology when they frequently struggle with it.
>> I like to score the odd point for the old folk when I can <grin>

Hrm. The youngsters need to be reminded that their grandparents
INVENTED computers.

> Heh. You have convinced me :-D

Little point in trying to educate the stupid

--
Cheers, Bev
My computer doesn't have to be friendly;
civil is entirely sufficient.

On 5/4/24 6:31 AM, Newyana2 wrote:
> On 5/4/2024 12:01 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 5/3/24 4:29 PM, Jim the Geordie wrote:
>>> Any preferences here - and why?
>>
>> I have often wondered about the value of any of these.  What's wrong
>> with a credit card which gives you a rebate?
>
> I think it's just part of the cellphone ubiquity trend. People
> don't want to have to leave their cellphone for anything.
> For a non-cellphone-addict it's an awkward bottleneck to
> use 3rd-party (spyware) pay services. For the average
> cellphone addict (90+% of people) it seems like a brilliant
> idea to just set up one e-servant to handle all of your
> transactions and paperwork.

So you pay the bill to the wallet entity rather than the credit card
entity? What if you use different cards at different stores/functions?

> That's becoming increasingly true. Just a few years ago,
> Apple Pay and "wallets" were not accepted in most places.
> Today, in urban areas, it's possible to live almost exclusively
> by cellphone.

I posit that such a life is inadequate.

--
Cheers, Bev
My computer doesn't have to be friendly;
civil is entirely sufficient.

On 5/4/24 1:03 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 5/4/24 3:31 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2024-05-04 12:20, Bob Henson wrote:
>>> On 4.5.24 10:06 am, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>>> Jim the Geordie, 2024-05-04 01:29:
>>>>
>>>>> Any preferences here - and why?
>>>>
>>>> Samsung Wallet only works with Samsung devices but not on my ancient
>>>> Samsung Gear S3 and probably also not because I am not based in US.
>>>>
>>>> So I use Google Wallet ("Google Pay" was renamed) which works fine and
>>>> can even be used in newer smartwatches if they are based on WearOS like
>>>> Ticwatch Pro 5.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The ability to pay by smartwatch is very handy - I use it nearly all the
>>> time. It has an additional advantage - when paying bills to young
>>> counter assistants or waiters, they can't believe that an old geezer of
>>> 80 can understand the technology when they frequently struggle with it.
>>> I like to score the odd point for the old folk when I can <grin>
>
> Hrm. The youngsters need to be reminded that their grandparents
> INVENTED computers.
>
>> Heh. You have convinced me :-D
>
> Little point in trying to educate the stupid

Not you, the youngsters!

--
Cheers, Bev
My computer doesn't have to be friendly;
civil is entirely sufficient.

Do you really want to give your very expensive smartphone to a table
jockey that doesn't tote around an NFC reader, but has to walk to a
terminal to register the transaction? When a waiter comes to my table
for me to pay my tab, he has no means of using my phone at the table.
Many restaurants do not have a front desk where you pay for your meal.
You're expected to pay before you leave the table. The waiters use
terminals to enter the transaction, not hand-held readers.

I'd much prefer handing over a plastic card to a waiter who takes it to
a terminal to enter the transaction than hand them my phone with the
mobile pay app prepared to perform a transaction when the waiter gets it
back to the terminal. I rarely put my phone into the hands of others,
and even then with great hesitation. Getting a replacement card is
free. Replacing a phone is very expensive. Yep, there are still plenty
of retailers that have no means of reading your phone when you are not
at their front desk or cash register station, if they have one.

What about the contractor that, say, cuts down a tree, and wants to be
paid? He has his phone, but can your mobile pay app using NFC connect
to his mobile pay app via NFC on his phone? I've seen many SOHO folks
that plug in a USB card reader into their phone, and that's how they get
paid by sliding your card through their card reader attached to their
phone. I've even had contractors that don't even have the USB card
reader. They have to manually write down the credit card number, CVV,
and expiration date onto an invoice that you sign. Wave the phone all
over the invoice paper, but it ain't gonna work.

I see mobile pay apps as convenient only when they are so. That they
exist doesn't mean those apps are the most convenient payment method.
Many users don't leave their phones on in trying to preserve battery
power for when they do want to use their phones. Oh joy, wait to power
up the phone, hope it has enough power, wait for it to load the OS, wait
to load the mobile pay app, select a payment method, and then wave the
phone near the reader. Hardly convenient having to wait several minutes
to commit the transaction.

Do the mobile pay apps run as a service? If not, how long does it take
to load them? No, not refocus to a backgrounded app, but to load the
app, and then select which card to charge? Android leaves apps
backgrounded until memory is needed for a newly loaded app whereupon a
backgrounded app gets unloaded. That means backgrounded apps eventually
get unloaded, and you have to load them again. If ran as a service, or
as a sticky app, Android will reload the service or sticky app when it
finds the app is not loaded. Otherwise, it's up to you to reload the
app. For various reasons, some folks use task killers to eliminate idle
backgrounded apps, but services get restarted or sticky apps reloaded
(and why task killers cause consternation amoung their users not
understanding why a killed app will reappear).

I always have my wallet on me. It's in my pants pocket when I put on my
pants, or I transfer the wallet and other goodies to a clean pair. My
phone might be with me, might not. I too often forget to take my phone
with me. Also, just because I have the phone doesn't mean it happens to
be fully charged. I've been out with my phone when it makes the dreaded
"battery low" alert, or I find it auto-powered off when the battery
level got too low. Phones are nowhere near as reliable as cards. Go
canoeing and fall over into the water. Card still works, phone may not.
Drop a card. It still works, maybe not a phone. Cards don't need
batteries. Phones do. I could tote around a spare battery (if the
phone has a user-serviceable battery) or a power pack, but that adds
more nuisance to carrying a phone. I can leave a charger in my car, but
I'd have to be near my car, and wait for the phone to charge. While I
can charge to a card, I don't need to charge a card.

I have both manual tools, and those that are battery powered, like a
hand screwdriver and a cordless power drill. I use both. Even when the
powered drill is charged and immediately at hand, sometimes a manual
screwdriver is the better choice. Take both the phone and card with
you. Use whichever is most convenient at the time, and whichever will
work at the time. Sometimes either will work. Sometimes only one
works. Sometimes neither will work (shit happens).

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

> So you pay the bill to the wallet entity rather than the credit card
> entity? What if you use different cards at different stores/functions?

https://support.google.com/wallet/topic/11925503

You can multiple payment methods recorded in the mobile pay app. You
pick which to use unless the default one is what you want to use. You
aren't getting a credit line at Google. You still use the ones you
have.

In article <1o9got62136hu$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, V@nguard.LH says...
>
> Do you really want to give your very expensive smartphone to a table
> jockey that doesn't tote around an NFC reader, but has to walk to a
> terminal to register the transaction? When a waiter comes to my table
> for me to pay my tab, he has no means of using my phone at the table.
> Many restaurants do not have a front desk where you pay for your meal.
> You're expected to pay before you leave the table. The waiters use
> terminals to enter the transaction, not hand-held readers.
>
> I'd much prefer handing over a plastic card to a waiter who takes it to
> a terminal to enter the transaction than hand them my phone with the
> mobile pay app prepared to perform a transaction when the waiter gets it
> back to the terminal. I rarely put my phone into the hands of others,
> and even then with great hesitation. Getting a replacement card is
> free. Replacing a phone is very expensive. Yep, there are still plenty
> of retailers that have no means of reading your phone when you are not
> at their front desk or cash register station, if they have one.
>
> What about the contractor that, say, cuts down a tree, and wants to be
> paid? He has his phone, but can your mobile pay app using NFC connect
> to his mobile pay app via NFC on his phone? I've seen many SOHO folks
> that plug in a USB card reader into their phone, and that's how they get
> paid by sliding your card through their card reader attached to their
> phone. I've even had contractors that don't even have the USB card
> reader. They have to manually write down the credit card number, CVV,
> and expiration date onto an invoice that you sign. Wave the phone all
> over the invoice paper, but it ain't gonna work.
>
> I see mobile pay apps as convenient only when they are so. That they
> exist doesn't mean those apps are the most convenient payment method.
> Many users don't leave their phones on in trying to preserve battery
> power for when they do want to use their phones. Oh joy, wait to power
> up the phone, hope it has enough power, wait for it to load the OS, wait
> to load the mobile pay app, select a payment method, and then wave the
> phone near the reader. Hardly convenient having to wait several minutes
> to commit the transaction.
>
Where in the world are you that waiters don't have hand held card
scanners.
Do you really allow a waiter to wander out of your site with your
debit/credit card?

> Do the mobile pay apps run as a service? If not, how long does it take
> to load them? No, not refocus to a backgrounded app, but to load the
> app, and then select which card to charge? Android leaves apps
> backgrounded until memory is needed for a newly loaded app whereupon a
> backgrounded app gets unloaded. That means backgrounded apps eventually
> get unloaded, and you have to load them again. If ran as a service, or
> as a sticky app, Android will reload the service or sticky app when it
> finds the app is not loaded. Otherwise, it's up to you to reload the
> app. For various reasons, some folks use task killers to eliminate idle
> backgrounded apps, but services get restarted or sticky apps reloaded
> (and why task killers cause consternation amoung their users not
> understanding why a killed app will reappear).
>

--
Jim the Geordie

Jim the Geordie <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:

> Where in the world are you that waiters don't have hand held card
> scanners.
> Do you really allow a waiter to wander out of your site with your
> debit/credit card?

Haven't eaten out much, have you. The vast majority of restaurants I
visit bring you a padded wallet with the tab sheet inside. You put your
card in the wallet. The waiter comes back from there terminal with the
actual bill inside the wallet (2 copies: 1 for restaurant, 1 for your
copy). The bill has already been registered at their terminal, but you
still need to add a tip, and sign the bill.

I'm talking about restaurants where you're sitting at tables, and a
waiter comes to the table. Not fast food joints where you walk up to
counter to place an order, and wait until the food shows up in a bag. I
haven't been to fast food joint in decades. I got sick afterward. Even
when traveling, I look for a restaurant than visit some drive-up crap
food joint. Might as well grab a stale sandwich and past-due milk at
the gas shop when refueling.

Haven't you ever eaten at a non-fast food restaurant, or elsewhere than,
say, a buffet where you grab the food with a cash register is at the end
of the line to total up your picks? Some restaurants have waiters that
have readers to use your phone, but that is definitely not the norm
here. In fact, it happens so rarely that I'd be surprised the waiter
had a reader to use with my phone. I get seated, wait to order, order,
wait for the food, eat the food, the waiter brings over a wallet with
the summary tab when I'm done eating, I put the card in the wallet, they
pickup the wallet to ring up the sale at their terminal, and bring back
the bill for me to add a tip and to sign.

Stop eating crap at the fast food or buffet joints. Start going to real
restaurants. Then you'll have experience as to which ones have waiters
with readers, and which have you give them a card. In my region, the
card is the norm method of payment. In fact, I could wave my phone all
over in the air, but no one brings a reader to my table.

On 5/4/24 7:54 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> J The bill has already been registered at their terminal, but you
> still need to add a tip, and sign the bill.

I always tip in cash. It's not MY job to help the IRS.

--
Cheers, Bev
While you can't fool all the people all the time, you can fool
enough of them most of the time to make the rest impotent.
-- Anonymous Democrat