On 2024-06-12 23:09, Peter wrote:
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>>> I use scheduled messages as kind of an alarm for others.
>>
>> OK, that's two takers for scheduling reminders to other people, nothing
>> that I would ever need ...
>
> For anyone who runs a business from their iPhone - or people who only
> remember the important things they need to text while laying in bed at 3
> a.m. - the new scheduling feature will be a much-welcomed addition. Beyond
> simply making life easier, like when you want to text someone across time
> zones without disturbing them, Apple's screenshot suggests you could also

Most people have their phones set to do-not-disturb for their sleep
period. And should unless in some sort of "on call" status.

> use the feature to ensure you don't miss sending someone a birthday
> greeting.
>

Already have calendar reminders for B'days - most of whom I call
personally to remind about their inexorable submission to entropy.

--
"It would be a measureless disaster if Russian barbarism overlaid
the culture and independence of the ancient States of Europe."
Winston Churchill

On 2024-06-13 04:35, Chris wrote:

>
> Does it still work if the phone is off/has no signal/in airplane mode?

This is where the distinction of the functionality being "on device" or
on Apple's servers as a "store, wait and forward" function comes in....

--
"It would be a measureless disaster if Russian barbarism overlaid
the culture and independence of the ancient States of Europe."
Winston Churchill

Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Chris wrote on Thu, 13 Jun 2024 07:43:40 -0000 (UTC) :
>
>>>
>>>>> Since Apple religious zealots have shown to understand nothing of Apple
>>>>> products
>>>>
>>>> Remember you're the person who both massively over-inflated the number of
>>>> zero days in iOS AND didn't know basic geofencing functionality in iOS.
>>>>
>>>> Who's the one who knows nothing about Apple really?
>>>
>>> And yet I'm the one who explained
>>
>> Nope. All you do is post other people's articles that reinforce your own
>> bias. In short, you're the definition of a troll.
>
> Notice you Apple zealots hate facts

Your understanding of facts is very limited. Most of what you post are not
facts.

> but you never provide any facts.

Apart from the time when your claim of zero days was corrected for you.

Chris wrote on Thu, 13 Jun 2024 18:52:46 -0000 (UTC) :

>> Notice you Apple zealots hate facts
>
> Your understanding of facts is very limited. Most of what you post are not
> facts.
>
>> but you never provide any facts.
>
> Apart from the time when your claim of zero days was corrected for you.

Given zealots have no education in the sciences or engineering, you can be
forgiven for not being able to discern between facts & assessments of fact.

This is an example of a fact.

FACT: Apple fully supports only one release, unlike every other OS vendor.
<https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>

ASSESSMENT: Apple has the worst operating system support in the industry.

What you uneducated (and hence ignorant) Apple religious zealots constantly
do is confuse actual facts from one person's assessment of those facts.

1. Only a fool disagrees with facts (that's why they're fools).
2. Yet adults can reasonably disagree with assessments (because each person
places a different weight on the myriad facts that form assessments).

What you Apple zealots do is confuse fact with assessment of fact.

It's actually a fundamental part of your herd mentality, because you
religious herd animals only know marketing BS but can't assemble facts.

FACT: Apple MARKETING tells you that Apple products are safer than others.
FACT: Yet Apple only promises five years of full operating system support.
FACT: Even Microsoft fully supports Windows 10 for far longer than that.
FACT: Worse, Apple only fully supports a single release at a time.
FACT: Even as Samsung/Google fully support up to seven releases at a time.
FACT: And Microsoft clearly fully supports more than one release at a time.
etc. (lots more facts)

ASSESSMENT: *Apple has the worst operating system support in the industry.*

Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Chris wrote on Thu, 13 Jun 2024 08:35:36 -0000 (UTC) :
>
>> I mean, SMS is explicitly asynchronous - there's no guarantee a text will
>> be delivered at any time - so the time you send something is meaningless.
>> Especially with kids.
>
> While technically that's true, how many times have you sent an SMS/MMS
> message and had it NOT arrive within seconds of you sending it?

I mostly communicate via imessage or whatsapp so SMS is rare. I have had it
fail, but couldn't tell you how often.

>> Ooops. Wrong link. Here's the correct link to the example I just provided.
>>> <https://i.postimg.cc/v86wXwtJ/scheduledmessage.jpg>
>>
>> Does it still work if the phone is off/has no signal/in airplane mode?
>
> Completely outside the topic of "scheduled messages", I hike often in
> backcountry that has low cellular service where my experience is that any
> queued up SMS messages get sent en masse when my phone enters a cellular
> service area.
>
> Back on the topic of scheduled messages though, based on the WSJ article

You misunderstand. I was asking about *your* method. Does it work when
there's no mobile signal? And if it doesn't, what happens? Do scheduled
messages fail completely or is it sent next time signal is available?

Alan Browne <singularity@blackhole.org> wrote:
> On 2024-06-13 04:35, Chris wrote:
>
>>
>> Does it still work if the phone is off/has no signal/in airplane mode?
>
> This is where the distinction of the functionality being "on device" or
> on Apple's servers as a "store, wait and forward" function comes in....

Exactly. I guess it's like outlook's method where it's all done on the
server meaning it doesn't matter that your PC is off.

Alan Browne <singularity@blackhole.org> wrote:
> On 2024-06-12 23:09, Peter wrote:
>
>> use the feature to ensure you don't miss sending someone a birthday
>> greeting.
>>
>
> Already have calendar reminders for B'days - most of whom I call
> personally to remind about their inexorable submission to entropy.

A handy tip I found out recently is if you add a date of birth to a
contact's details on iOS it'll put a note in the calendar telling you their
birthday *and* their age.

On 2024-06-13 16:40, Chris wrote:
> Alan Browne <singularity@blackhole.org> wrote:
>> On 2024-06-12 23:09, Peter wrote:
>>
>>> use the feature to ensure you don't miss sending someone a birthday
>>> greeting.
>>>
>>
>> Already have calendar reminders for B'days - most of whom I call
>> personally to remind about their inexorable submission to entropy.
>
> A handy tip I found out recently is if you add a date of birth to a
> contact's details on iOS it'll put a note in the calendar telling you their
> birthday *and* their age.

Quite right - in effect Calendar takes birthdates from contacts and
expresses them on your Mac or other ...

--
"It would be a measureless disaster if Russian barbarism overlaid
the culture and independence of the ancient States of Europe."
Winston Churchill

Chris wrote on Thu, 13 Jun 2024 20:25:25 -0000 (UTC) :

>> While technically that's true, how many times have you sent an SMS/MMS
>> message and had it NOT arrive within seconds of you sending it?
>
> I mostly communicate via imessage or whatsapp so SMS is rare. I have had it
> fail, but couldn't tell you how often.

In my experience, when I send an (unscheduled, i.e., normal) SMS message,
the recipient gets it within seconds of me sending it.

If I'm not in an area that has coverage at the time I initiated the
sending, then it has been my experience that the recipient automatically
gets it only after I move to an area that has coverage.

Hence, it appears to be queued up on my phone; but I leave it to the
Android experts to explain better how a failed SMS message is queued up.

>>> Ooops. Wrong link. Here's the correct link to the example I just provided.
>>>> <https://i.postimg.cc/v86wXwtJ/scheduledmessage.jpg>
>>>
>>> Does it still work if the phone is off/has no signal/in airplane mode?
>>
>> Completely outside the topic of "scheduled messages", I hike often in
>> backcountry that has low cellular service where my experience is that any
>> queued up SMS messages get sent en masse when my phone enters a cellular
>> service area.
>>
>> Back on the topic of scheduled messages though, based on the WSJ article
>
> You misunderstand. I was asking about *your* method. Does it work when
> there's no mobile signal? And if it doesn't, what happens? Do scheduled
> messages fail completely or is it sent next time signal is available?

Thanks for clarifying the question, where I do NOT know what happens using
the age-old Android method of sending scheduled messages if at the time the
message is scheduled to be sent, there is no cellular coverage.

I suspect that the same thing "should" happen that happens when I send an
SMS message when I have no coverage, but I don't know if that is the case.

Bear in mind the EXTREMELY IMPORTANT distinction that sending messages with
iOS typically involves logging into Apple messaging servers, whereas on
Android, you're never required to log into any server to send a message.

Hence, I suspect that the Android method keeps trying as I don't see any
distinction in HOW it's sent between sending a message NOW versus sending
it scheduled for later. But I could be wrong on that.

Chris wrote on Thu, 13 Jun 2024 20:25:26 -0000 (UTC) :

>>> Does it still work if the phone is off/has no signal/in airplane mode?
>>
>> This is where the distinction of the functionality being "on device" or
>> on Apple's servers as a "store, wait and forward" function comes in....
>
> Exactly. I guess it's like outlook's method where it's all done on the
> server meaning it doesn't matter that your PC is off.

As a related aside, I've been looking up details about how the Apple iOS 18
satellite messaging method works, whose encryption seems to suffer from the
same classic walled-garden flaws as scheduled messages appear to suffer
from.

The clue that the inherent weaknesses of the walled garden are involved in
the satellite messaging method is that Apple advertises it's E2E encrypted.
<https://www.satellitetoday.com/connectivity/2024/06/11/apple-expands-satellite-messaging-capabilities-with-ios-18/>
"Messages sent via satellite will have the same end-to-end encryption
as typical iMessages."

Note that E2E encryption is reserved for people wholly inside the walled
garden, which implies that encrypted satellite messaging won't actually
work in the real world (where 3/4 of the people on this planet are NOT
logged into Apple servers, even as the satellite service is apparently USA
only at this time, according to the references cited in this article).
"It's nice to see both SMS and iMessage supported over satellite,
even if only the latter is end-to-end encrypted."
<https://www.engadget.com/how-messages-via-satellite-will-work-on-ios-18-and-how-much-it-will-cost-130020976.html>

Note that RCS is NOT handled by Apple's satellite coverage.
"Apple's decision to include SMS is thoughtful, and though I'd
like RCS to be covered as well that platform's messages are
too large or complicated to compress effectively"

However, note this article says Apple's SMS will work in the real world.
<https://explorersweb.com/apple-ios-18-will-allow-satellite-texting-for-u-s-users/>
"Texts to non-iPhone users will also go by satellite, via SMS."

For Android users, note T-Mobile & Verizon have Android 15 satellite plans.
Android 15:
<https://www.androidauthority.com/satellite-messaging-t-mobile-android-15-3444192/>
T-Mobile:
<https://www.satellitetoday.com/connectivity/2024/01/10/spacex-sends-its-text-messages-via-direct-to-cell-starlink-satellites/>
Verizon:
<https://www.satellitetoday.com/connectivity/2024/05/29/verizon-jumps-into-satellite-to-cell-market-with-ast-spacemobile/>

Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Chris wrote on Thu, 13 Jun 2024 20:25:25 -0000 (UTC) :
>>
>> You misunderstand. I was asking about *your* method. Does it work when
>> there's no mobile signal? And if it doesn't, what happens? Do scheduled
>> messages fail completely or is it sent next time signal is available?
>
> Thanks for clarifying the question, where I do NOT know what happens using
> the age-old Android method of sending scheduled messages if at the time the
> message is scheduled to be sent, there is no cellular coverage.
>
> I suspect that the same thing "should" happen that happens when I send an
> SMS message when I have no coverage, but I don't know if that is the case.

You could test it?

Alan Browne <singularity@blackhole.org> wrote:
> On 2024-06-12 17:51, Chris wrote:
>> Alan Browne <singularity@blackhole.org> wrote:
>
>>> in the future. But I suppose the "fire and forget" nature of it might
>>> be useful.
>>>
>>> Hmm ... might be some neat pranks I could pull. Need to test that.
>>
>> I guess it depends on how the messages are "cached". If they're only stored
>> on your phone and then your phone is off or in airplane mode at the
>> scheduled time, then that is not very useful.
>>
>> I regularly use schedule send for emails for when I'm working in the
>> evenings. Not sure it's something I'll use often for texts.
>
> Valid point that I'd put as almost edge case.
>
> But it does make me wonder if the scheduled message is stored and sent
> from the (say) phone, or if it is stored and sent from an Apple server.

I'd suspect the latter.

> Not sure if the keynote made that clear.
>
> Easy enough to test. Send a delayed text, then turn off the phone for
> the time that the message should be sent...

Yep.

Chris wrote on Fri, 14 Jun 2024 22:03:08 -0000 (UTC) :

>> I suspect that the same thing "should" happen that happens when I send an
>> SMS message when I have no coverage, but I don't know if that is the case.
>
> You could test it?

The good news is it works on all platforms, so anyone can test it out.
<https://home.pulsesms.app/overview/>
Windows & macOS PC users included.
<https://home.pulsesms.app/overview/platform-mac.html>
<https://home.pulsesms.app/overview/platform-windows.html>

I find it interesting that the Apple owners have no idea that we've been
doing for years what Apple is only now figuring out how to give them it.

Seamless device integration
Send SMS and MMS from any platform, any time.
Sync is instant and hassle free.

Per-contact customization
Customize color, notifications and more, for all of your conversations.

Beautiful layouts and animations
Pulse SMS doesn't just get the job done.
It wraps your messages in a powerful, fluid layout.

Pin favorite contacts
Quick access to all your favorites at the top of the conversation list.

Night mode
Your perfect companion to optimizing your nighttime messaging.

Blacklist
Stop annoying spammers.

Delayed sending
To prevent those awkward mistakes in your messages.

Dual SIM support
Have two SIMs? Pulse SMS can manage both for you, no problem.

Backup and Restore
With a Pulse SMS account, your messages are automatically backed up
and restored to any new devices.

End-to-end encryption
None of your data is stored un-encrypted on our backend.
Get the full privacy of the latest encryption standards.

Powerful searches
Search conversations and messages, all at once.

Mute and snooze
Prevent distractions while you need to get stuff done.

Smart Replies
Get context-aware reply suggestions, to your conversations.

Web previews
See instant previews of any web articles or YouTube videos
that get sent to you.

Schedule messages
Make sure your message gets sent out, at the right time.

Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Chris wrote on Fri, 14 Jun 2024 22:03:08 -0000 (UTC) :
>
>>> I suspect that the same thing "should" happen that happens when I send an
>>> SMS message when I have no coverage, but I don't know if that is the case.
>>
>> You could test it?
>
> The good news is it works on all platforms, so anyone can test it out.
> <https://home.pulsesms.app/overview/>

So why don't you? You're the one who already uses it and sing its praises.
You could have done it in the time it took write this post.

Andrew, 2024-06-13 20:06:

> Chris wrote on Thu, 13 Jun 2024 08:35:36 -0000 (UTC) :
>
>> I mean, SMS is explicitly asynchronous - there's no guarantee a text will
>> be delivered at any time - so the time you send something is meaningless.
>> Especially with kids.
>
> While technically that's true, how many times have you sent an SMS/MMS
> message and had it NOT arrive within seconds of you sending it?

I have experienced this many times - especially when sending a SMS to
someone within a different provider network.

Sometimes messages even did not arrive at all. It seems SMS is not that
important for providers nowadays since they know, that many people use
messengers anyway.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Chris wrote on Sat, 15 Jun 2024 09:05:21 -0000 (UTC) :

>> The good news is it works on all platforms, so anyone can test it out.
>> <https://home.pulsesms.app/overview/>
>
> So why don't you? You're the one who already uses it and sing its praises.
> You could have done it in the time it took write this post.

It worked for me, Chris, which I tried before you even asked, but I don't
want to risk saying it works for everyone since I only tested it once.

I turned on airplane mode.
I scheduled a message to my wife.
I waited an hour and turned airplane mode off.

It sent.

Will it send for everyone?
Hell if I know.

But if I say it does, then you guys will jump all over me, like you always
do, so I kept mum about it and simply said anyone could test it.

Pulse SMS works with Chrome & Firefox on any platform and it runs on
Android phones & tablets, and Android TV and macOS, Windows & Linux.

Unlike almost everything from Apple, PulseSMS works in the real world.

Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Chris wrote on Sat, 15 Jun 2024 09:05:21 -0000 (UTC) :
>
>>> The good news is it works on all platforms, so anyone can test it out.
>>> <https://home.pulsesms.app/overview/>
>>
>> So why don't you? You're the one who already uses it and sing its praises.
>> You could have done it in the time it took write this post.
>
> It worked for me, Chris, which I tried before you even asked, but I don't
> want to risk saying it works for everyone since I only tested it once.
>
> I turned on airplane mode.
> I scheduled a message to my wife.
> I waited an hour and turned airplane mode off.
>
> It sent.

When? At the same time scheduled time or when you switched off airplane
mode?

Interestingly, you claim this app is free and open source, but the source
doesn't exist and the github releases haven't been updated in nearly 18
months.
https://github.com/maplemedia/pulse-sms-desktop/pull/16

That's worrying for an election app as they require regular updates to fix
vulnerabilities and bugs.

> Will it send for everyone?
> Hell if I know.
>
> But if I say it does, then you guys will jump all over me, like you always
> do, so I kept mum about it and simply said anyone could test it.
>
> Pulse SMS works with Chrome & Firefox on any platform and it runs on
> Android phones & tablets, and Android TV and macOS, Windows & Linux.
>
> Unlike almost everything from Apple, PulseSMS works in the real world.

Not if you look at the reviews. Almost all recent reviews complain that it
doesn't work on Android (anymore) or requires a subscription.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=xyz.klinker.messenger

The Play Store version has been updated so it looks like they've abandoned
their open source model.

On 2024-06-14 18:03, Chris wrote:
> Alan Browne <singularity@blackhole.org> wrote:

>> But it does make me wonder if the scheduled message is stored and sent
>> from the (say) phone, or if it is stored and sent from an Apple server.
>
> I'd suspect the latter.

I'd _ex_pect the later but Apple don't always do as I expect (or wish
for that matter).

--
"It would be a measureless disaster if Russian barbarism overlaid
the culture and independence of the ancient States of Europe."
Winston Churchill

Chris wrote on Sat, 15 Jun 2024 16:12:14 -0000 (UTC) :

> When? At the same time scheduled time or when you switched off airplane
> mode?

It's good that you're asking questions.

It sent when I turned airplane mode back on.

> Interestingly, you claim this app is free and open source, but the source
> doesn't exist and the github releases haven't been updated in nearly 18
> months.
> https://github.com/maplemedia/pulse-sms-desktop/pull/16
>
> That's worrying for an election app as they require regular updates to fix
> vulnerabilities and bugs.

The good news is you're asking questions.

The bad news is that we covered this a thousand times already on this
newsgroup (yes, both on the Apple newsgroup and on the Android newsgroup).

There's a *reason* I called it the last known good version of PulseSMS.
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=44927&group=comp.mobile.android#44927>

>> Will it send for everyone?
>> Hell if I know.
>>
>> But if I say it does, then you guys will jump all over me, like you always
>> do, so I kept mum about it and simply said anyone could test it.
>>
>> Pulse SMS works with Chrome & Firefox on any platform and it runs on
>> Android phones & tablets, and Android TV and macOS, Windows & Linux.
>>
>> Unlike almost everything from Apple, PulseSMS works in the real world.
>
> Not if you look at the reviews. Almost all recent reviews complain that it
> doesn't work on Android (anymore) or requires a subscription.
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=xyz.klinker.messenger
>
> The Play Store version has been updated so it looks like they've abandoned
> their open source model.

I don't want to come down too hard on you because you're at least asking
questions, which is something most of the ignorant Apple zealots never do.

The bad thing is we covered this a thousand times already, where we covered
it in the Apple newsgroups when we explained there's nothing that messages
does on Apple products that PulseSMS doesn't do on every platform, where
even Steve Scharf (SMS) got into the act saying that PulseSMS was sold to
Maple Media years ago.
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=35684&group=comp.mobile.android#35684>

There's a *reason* I called it "the last known good version" by the Klinker
brothers and why my screenshots showed that, which is you have to use the
last known good version.

Since we've covered this a thousand times, you'll pardon my frustration as
I'm not used to people needing something to be told to them a thousand
times. But I do appreciate that you looked it up.

That's better than what the Apple morons do who never look anything up.
So I give you credit for figuring out what I knew years ago but which the
Apple uneducated religious zealots like Jolly Roger & Alan Browne never
will figure out.

Hence, you're at least smarter than they are, which is a good thing.
So here are some searches for "last known good version pulsesms"...

<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/4xgp8Gh2JNA/m/R5lC3Sr_BAAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/9MjAGIdZCd4/m/7U9iGtb-BAAJ>
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/search.php>
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=45000&group=comp.mobile.android#45000>

etc.

Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Chris wrote on Sat, 15 Jun 2024 16:12:14 -0000 (UTC) :
>
>> When? At the same time scheduled time or when you switched off airplane
>> mode?
>
> It's good that you're asking questions.
>
> It sent when I turned airplane mode back on.

ITYM "off"

>> Interestingly, you claim this app is free and open source, but the source
>> doesn't exist and the github releases haven't been updated in nearly 18
>> months.
>> https://github.com/maplemedia/pulse-sms-desktop/pull/16
>>
>> That's worrying for an election app as they require regular updates to fix
>> vulnerabilities and bugs.
>
> The good news is you're asking questions.
>
> The bad news is that we covered this a thousand times already on this
> newsgroup (yes, both on the Apple newsgroup and on the Android newsgroup).

Sorry to tell you but I don't read all your posts. I often killfile you.

> There's a *reason* I called it the last known good version of PulseSMS.
> <https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=44927&group=comp.mobile.android#44927>

So you promote five-years old software that is full of bugs and no longer
supported. I thoughts not fully supported software was a big no no for you?
Why the different standards.

Even the "good" version is not open source. Care to agree with that
statement?

Chris wrote on Sun, 16 Jun 2024 21:36:24 -0000 (UTC) :

> Sorry to tell you but I don't read all your posts. I often killfile you.

I went to the finest schools in this country and I never met a person who
not only complains that all facts are wrong but that he never reads any.

People like you couldn't even pass a simple high school physics test.

a. You don't read any facts.
b. You deny all facts.

And you wonder why I say all you Apple religious nutcases have a low IQ.

Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Chris wrote on Sun, 16 Jun 2024 21:36:24 -0000 (UTC) :
>
>> Sorry to tell you but I don't read all your posts. I often killfile you.
>
> I went to the finest schools in this country

All of them?! Was this some sort care in the community scheme? lol

> and I never met a person who
> not only complains that all facts are wrong but that he never reads any.

Looks like you didn't finish school as your comprehension skills are
non-existent. Did you simply photograph your books at school as well?

> People like you couldn't even pass a simple high school physics test.

Probably true. I didn't do physics past age 13/14. Curriculum didn't allow
for all three sciences and preferred chemistry and biology.

> a. You don't read any facts.
> b. You deny all facts.

Couldn't be more wrong.

> And you wonder why I say all you Apple religious nutcases have a low IQ.

I know exactly why you think that.