On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>
> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very
> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with
> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.

*ROTFLSTC*
The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
what they are in Europe or Asia.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>>
>> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very
>> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with
>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
>
> *ROTFLSTC*
> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
> what they are in Europe or Asia.

Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe? Have to make up for
the cheap plans?

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote

>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>
> Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe? Have to make up for
> the cheap plans?

I don't see anything from Joerg but I do see Alan Brown's posts where I pay
about $25 a month per line for unlimited everything in the USA on T-Mobile.
<https://i.postimg.cc/L6dFGXVd/tmopromo03.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees
Note: Two of those lines are free for life, but Apple bricked one iPad.

How much does unlimited everything typically cost in Europe & in the UK?

On 13 Dec 2023 08:58:11 -0500 Alan Browne wrote:
>On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>>>
>>> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very
>>> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with
>>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
>>
>> *ROTFLSTC*
>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>
>Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe? Have to make up for
>the cheap plans?

Here in the UK there is keen competition on price, wide network coverage,
and it's easy to swap mobile supplier and port your phone number. The
standard competitive offering these days is a SIM-only rolling monthly
contract with unlimited voice calls and SMSs and varying amounts of data:
typicaly £10/month upwards but can be half that for small amounts of
data. To my knowledge MMSs are always extra - a quick google suggests
£0.5 per MMS is typical. Few people use them so there's no incentive to
include them and every incentive to charge a lot for them.

I think the unpopularity of MMSs is historical, predating smartphones and
the rise of mobile data. Kids sent huge numbers of SMSs, and we adults
used them quite a lot, so operators offered ever higher numbers of them
'free'. MMS never caught on - probably because the experience on a tiny
display was so poor. With smartphones the number of SMSs has declined
drastically, so they're free.

Soon after smartphones appeared, there was WhatsApp! Everybody - apart
from all-iPhone families - had WA and knew that, for sharing photos and
videos, that's what you used. (This was back in the days of Android 4.)

I can't speak knowledgeably about 'Europe' as a whole but for countries
I've had SIMs for, it seemed the same.
--
(Remove numerics from email address)

On 2023-12-13 10:26, Dave Royal wrote:
> On 13 Dec 2023 08:58:11 -0500 Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>>>>
>>>> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very
>>>> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with
>>>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
>>>
>>> *ROTFLSTC*
>>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>>
>> Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe? Have to make up for
>> the cheap plans?
>
> Here in the UK there is keen competition on price, wide network coverage,
> and it's easy to swap mobile supplier and port your phone number. The
> standard competitive offering these days is a SIM-only rolling monthly
> contract with unlimited voice calls and SMSs and varying amounts of data:
> typicaly £10/month upwards but can be half that for small amounts of

Amazing. Here (Canada) an unlimited contract with a paltry 3 - 5 GB of
data is on the order of $40+tax/month. This would be a bring-your-own
phone annual deal. Actually I'm contract free at the moment. So they
bill me monthly. I can walk at any moment and take my number with me.
They're always "upselling" (more data for a small increase in fee).

> data. To my knowledge MMSs are always extra - a quick google suggests
> £0.5 per MMS is typical. Few people use them so there's no incentive to
> include them and every incentive to charge a lot for them.

No extra charge here for larger files (videos, etc.).

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Am 13.12.23 um 14:58 schrieb Alan Browne:
> On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>>>
>>> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very
>>> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with
>>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
>>
>> *ROTFLSTC*
>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>
> Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe? Have to make up for
> the cheap plans?

There are no MMS anymore in Europe. At least in the majority of the
markets. The quality and reliability of MMS is so inferior, that nobody
used them anymore for years. Hence most providers stopped the serivce.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Am 13.12.23 um 20:17 schrieb Alan Browne:
> Amazing. Here (Canada) an unlimited contract with a paltry 3 - 5 GB of
> data is on the order of $40+tax/month. This would be a bring-your-own
> phone annual deal.

My Wingo Business costs me $50/month everything flat golablly inculding
the US and Canada. Unlimited data roaming everywhere. To put that into
perspective: Switzerland is rather a high price country for
communication services.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On 2023-12-14 08:08, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 13.12.23 um 14:58 schrieb Alan Browne:
>> On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>>>>
>>>> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe.  MMS is still very
>>>> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat
>>>> with
>>>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
>>>
>>> *ROTFLSTC*
>>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>>
>> Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe?  Have to make up for
>> the cheap plans?
>
> There are no MMS anymore in Europe. At least in the majority of the
> markets. The quality and reliability of MMS is so inferior, that nobody
> used them anymore for years. Hence most providers stopped the serivce.

I just tested, and MMS is available in Movistar (Spain).

To test, I disabled RCS in phone #2. Then in phone #1 I tried to send a
message. It changed the display note to "SMS". I typed "Aa" then a big
smiley. Instantly, it said MMS. I did not hit send, it costs money.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

> I just tested, and MMS is available in Movistar (Spain).
>
> To test, I disabled RCS in phone #2. Then in phone #1 I tried to send a
> message. It changed the display note to "SMS". I typed "Aa" then a big
> smiley. Instantly, it said MMS. I did not hit send, it costs money.

Thanks for running that test for the team, Carlos, as everyone pitches in
to provide the tribal knowledge of these combined Usenet newsgroups.

Here in the states, most of us (not all though) have unlimited free MMS so
we don't need RCS to send MMS via the Internet data on the phone plan.

Hence, we don't see as much value to RCS as you do - where the iPhone users
seem to complain a lot about bubble color which is another thing most of us
don't care about (as on Android, all users look the same to us, AFAICT).

Hence, for those few who are affected by MMS charges, it's good that you
ran those tests as we can't run them given we don't have the same issues.
--
Usenet is a wonderful way to meet smart people on both sides of the Pond.