Quit Shopping For Fun
=====================
A zine with ideas to entertain yourself and others for free

Created by the FrugalGamer
<https://thefrugalgamer.net>

But There's Nothing To DO!
==========================
Yes there is. We entertained ourselves long before "shopping for fun"
was a thing. Here in this zine you'll find a number of suggestions
for things you can do to entertain yourself and others for FREE or
VERY LITTLE money. Because we don't need capitalism in order to keep
ourselves busy.

Flip For Cheap Fun
==================
Libraries have far more than just books. Yours may have music, 3D
Printing, board games, movies, and even video games. Many also host
community evens & book clubs. Libraries are one of the last places we
can visit without being expected to pay to get in.

Writing & Journaling
====================
This doesn't work for everyone, and that's fine. But if you like, you
can create worlds and characters, people, and events entirely in your
head, for free. Creativity is a wonderful gift, and what most people
don't realize it's like a muscle. Once you practice, it gets easier!

Plant & Insect Collecting
=========================
Getting to know your local flora can be fascinating and grouding. You
can collect physically, if you're ok with killing specimens, or with
photos and drawings, if that bothers you. You can use apps like
iNaturalist to identify plants, insects, birds (please don't collect
physical birds!), mushrooms, etc, and then collect info like common
names, biological facts, lore, and more.

Learn A New Exercise
====================
With free online videos and sites. If you don't have weights,
checkout body weight fitness. Other exercises that don't require
equipment include yoga, pilates, Barre, Zumba, walking, and running.
All can be done indoors or outdoors. If you have a group of friends
and access to a court, basketball and soccer/football can be played
relatively cheaply.

Playing Cards
=============
You can buy them cheap, but most people have an old pack lying around
somewhere. They can even be thrifted. Once you have those, they can
be used to play games with others, or even games by yourself. Here's
a good site for card game rules:

<https://www.pagat.com>

Host A Potluck
==============
You don't need a special occasion to throw a party. Save on costs by
asking everyone to bring their favorite dish. Time spent with others
is always meaningful.

Make Board Games
================
Did you know there's an entire category of board games called
"print and play"? Many board games can get expensive, but decades ago
people would just make them from scratch. Check out boardgamegeek.com
for a list of new and old DIY board games:

<https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamecategory/1120/print-and-play>

String Games
============
These aren't that popular anymore, but they've been enjoyed by
indigenous cultures all over the world for centuries. I was given a
book about them as a kid and spent hours practicing them. For a good
book covering a number of them, check out this book here:

<https://www.arvindguptatoys.com/arvindgupta/stringgames.pdf>

Origami
=======
Many origami books insist you buy specialty paper for this hobby, but
schoolchildren have been making digures out of their notebook paper
for ages without any issues. All you need is to cut whatever thin
paper you have to be square. There are tons of instructions online,
but here is a good place to start:

<https://origami.guide>

Learn A Language
================
We're all familiar with DuoLingo, thanks to their massive advertising
campaign, but there are tons of other language learning services as
well. Your library may have a partnership with other apps, and will
have books and audiobooks on the topic.

OpenCulture.com has a section just for free language courses. Check
out the link below for more:

<https://www.openculture.com/freelanguagelessons>

Learn To Program
================
Programming books and courses are all over the place for free, and
once you're comfortable with once, you can make your own sotware
tools instead of having to buy there. Here are some I recommend:

* Javascript
All you need is a text editor and a browser to get started

* C
C has been around forever and there are a ton of resources

* Rust
Very popular and commonly used today

* Python
Incredibly useful for fetching and altering data

Letterboxing/Geocaching
=======================
These games and their variants all have a similar premise: locations
and GPS coordinates are posted online, and players hunt around to
find "drops" that others have hidden. Letterbox caches have a rubber
stamp for players to add to their log books, while geocachers sign
their name and date at the site. Some incorporate puzzles and players
must solve hints before finding cache spots.

Check Letterboxing.org and Geocaching.com to see if there are players
in your area.

Mail Art
========
If you're artistically inclined, and you like getting mail, you might
join an online Mail art group. Artists online swap themes and
addresses, and send each other small unique pieces of artwork via
snail mail. Check Sawp-bot.com for all different kinds of swaps and
more info.

Volunteer
=========
People are always looking for help, and spending your time helping
others will usually always leave you feeling better. Here are some
ideas for different places to volunteer at:

* Animal shelter
* Library
* Food bank
* Meals on Wheels
* Adult literacy organizations

Not all of these may be available in your local area, but with some
looking you can probably find some one in need of help.

Freezer Paper Stencils
======================
Ever wanted to customize your clothes, but don't know how to sew?
Want to create cool painting buys you can't paint or draw well? Try
stenciling! All you need is a craft knife, an iron, and some freezer
paper, found in the storage section of the grocery store. You can
trace and cut any image you find onto the non-waxy side of the paper,
the iron the waxy side onto wahtever you'd like to customize, then
paint over it. You can make more complex images using more than one
stencil, layered on top of your image, if you have the time.

And Finally, Some Advice
========================
Whenever you're feeling angry, depressed, frustrated etc. If there's
nothing else you can do, either clean or exercise. It won't fix the
issue, but you'll feel better, and you'll have something to show for
it, either a cleaner space, or a slightly healthier body.

Take care of yourself :)

---
Licensed under CC-BY 4.0
Please share!

From: <https://html-classic.itch.zone/html/10448310/3Zines/
zine_hobbies.txt>

Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> writes:

> Learn To Program
> ================
> Programming books and courses are all over the place for free, and
> once you're comfortable with once, you can make your own sotware
> tools instead of having to buy there. Here are some I recommend:
>
> * Javascript
> All you need is a text editor and a browser to get started
>
> * C
> C has been around forever and there are a ton of resources
>
> * Rust
> Very popular and commonly used today
>
> * Python
> Incredibly useful for fetching and altering data

If you already know lots of languages some of them sure will have
collected a bit (or a byte) of dust. Check out e.g. Project Euler and
solve some of those tasks in multiple languages you haven't touched for
a while.

<https://projecteuler.net/>

Maybe try AWK, DC or SH for some of those problems?

--
I do not bite, I just want to play.

Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote or quoted:
>Quit Shopping For Fun
>Learn A Language
>Learn To Program

The acquisition of possessions is but vanity.

The study of tongues doth also prove vain in the end.

Even the mastery of the languages by which we instruct
machines bringeth only a vapor that swiftly dissipates.

All is vanity and grasping for the wind!

On 5/18/24 2:17 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote or quoted:
>>Quit Shopping For Fun
>>Learn A Language
>>Learn To Program
>
> The acquisition of possessions is but vanity.
>
> The study of tongues doth also prove vain in the end.
>
> Even the mastery of the languages by which we instruct
> machines bringeth only a vapor that swiftly dissipates.
>
> All is vanity and grasping for the wind!

What he said. I guess.

There are lots of entities offering us handy hints and suggestions. I
used to like reading these decades ago, especially the ones involving
tools and repairs. I haven't seen any good ones for a long time, and
everything now seems to be aimed at the truly subnormal.

I have to believe that these 'suggestions' are somehow profitable to the
senders. I find this frightening.

--
Cheers, Bev
All bleeding eventually stops.

On 18 May 2024 21:17:57 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:

> The acquisition of possessions is but vanity.

To some, life is a game. Whoever dies with the most toys wins.

On 2024-05-18, Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote or quoted:
>>Quit Shopping For Fun
>>Learn A Language
>>Learn To Program
>
> The acquisition of possessions is but vanity.
>
> The study of tongues doth also prove vain in the end.
>
> Even the mastery of the languages by which we instruct
> machines bringeth only a vapor that swiftly dissipates.
>
> All is vanity and grasping for the wind!

Use it or lose it. True learning is fun and playful and improves
quality of life while we still have it. If it were mere aquisition
of mental possessions, i would quickly become bored with it.

> He comprehended that the effort to mold the incoherent and
> vertiginous matter dreams are made of was the most arduous task
> [one] could undertake... much more arduous than weaving a rope
> of sand or coining the faceless wind...
> --Jorge Luis Borges

Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> writes:

> On 2024-05-18, Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>> Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote or quoted:
>>>Quit Shopping For Fun
>>>Learn A Language
>>>Learn To Program
>>
>> The acquisition of possessions is but vanity.
>>
>> The study of tongues doth also prove vain in the end.
>>
>> Even the mastery of the languages by which we instruct
>> machines bringeth only a vapor that swiftly dissipates.
>>
>> All is vanity and grasping for the wind!
>
> Use it or lose it. True learning is fun and playful and improves
> quality of life while we still have it. If it were mere aquisition
> of mental possessions, i would quickly become bored with it.

That's pretty tricky as might be quite aware. I think Stefan Ram is
precisely talking about True Learning. Intellectual acquisition, I'm
afraid, is no different from other kinds of acquisition. All is
grasping for the wind!

Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> writes:

> Quit Shopping For Fun
> =====================
> A zine with ideas to entertain yourself and others for free
>
> Created by the FrugalGamer
> <https://thefrugalgamer.net>
>
> [snip]
>
> Writing & Journaling
> ====================
> This doesn't work for everyone, and that's fine. But if you like, you
> can create worlds and characters, people, and events entirely in your
> head, for free. Creativity is a wonderful gift, and what most people
> don't realize it's like a muscle. Once you practice, it gets easier!

Indeed it doesn't work for everyone. I have several friends whom I
see f2f infrequently for various reasons. They're all university
educated, some with advanced degrees, one with a PhD in English
literature.

And I can't get them to write me letters. They all have and use email
but the best I can evoke from them is a short paragraph, more usually
a couple of lines. "What do you think about [whatever]?" "What've
you been thinking about?" More generally, "What's happenin'?" fail to
provoke a couple of dozen sentences of reflective text, let alone a
long reflection/discursion on a topic.

I admit that when I sometimes take a notion to fire off email to the one
exception to the above who lives on the opposite coast, I discover
that I'm just coming to a conclusion and it's two hours later. It's
very pleasing to get similar email from him but he's the exception.

Now that I think of it, the same thing used to happen when I was
posting a mailing list populated similarly well educated and informed
subscribers. Sadly, most of those subscribers have drifted away,
leaving a couple of people who post stuff from the web by hitting the
"Send this page as email" button on a web page. Hard to work up
enthusiasm for a reply to that sort of thing but when I do, put my
thoughts in order, check that I haven't casually asserted something
that is verifiably false etc. the response from the remaining
subscribers is, once again, one-liners.

And it can't be blamed on the younger generation with a generational
slant or karoshi careers so busy that there's no time for reflection.
All my correspondents are near or past retirement age.

This post is in the way of being self-referential as it digresses on a
mentioned topic where I could have fired off a one-liner.

Well, as you say, doesn't work for everyone.

> Make Board Games
> ================
> Did you know there's an entire category of board games called
> "print and play"? Many board games can get expensive, but decades ago
> people would just make them from scratch. Check out boardgamegeek.com
> for a list of new and old DIY board games:
>
> <https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamecategory/1120/print-and-play>

One of those sites that is all js, devoid of text. But here's a
contribution that may or may not be listed there: Spinglasses: The game

https://arxiv.org/abs/1312.1839

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

On 2024-05-19, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
> More generally, "What's happenin'?" fail to
> provoke a couple of dozen sentences of reflective text, let alone a
> long reflection/discursion on a topic.
>
> And it can't be blamed on the younger generation with a generational
> slant or karoshi careers so busy that there's no time for reflection.
> All my correspondents are near or past retirement age.

Thanks for your long and thoughtful reply.

I have noticed changes in local social conventions. When i was a
kid, it was okay to drop in unannounced and knock on the door or ring
the doorbell. If the person was busy, they would either say so, or not
answer. Now it is considered rude to show up unannounced without
texting ahead of time.

I used to do postal correspondence, almost entirely with people who
were older than me. I no longer do any.

I am not really into journalling, but i do other kinds of writing,
and i have dabbled in tabletop role-playing games, mainly using
video conferencing software and online mapping software. It's a
creative, literate world-building exercise.

>> <https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamecategory/1120/print-and-play>
>
> One of those sites that is all js, devoid of text. But here's a
> contribution that may or may not be listed there: Spinglasses: The game
>
> https://arxiv.org/abs/1312.1839

I noticed the same thing about boardgamegeek.com.

I took a peek at the Spinglas PDF and it looks cool, thanks! For
some reason it brings to mind a completely different type of game,
Set, which was inspired by genetics rather than physics.

Here's The Glass Plate Game. It was inspired by Herman Hesse's
book The Glass Bead Game. I had the good fortune to play GPG at
Oregon State University with Dunbar Aitkins and several students.

"The object of playing the game is to spark creative and interesting
conversation between the players. Nobody wins."

https://glassplategame.com/

Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> writes:

> On 2024-05-19, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
>> But here's a contribution that may or may not be listed there:
>> Spinglasses: The game
>>
>> https://arxiv.org/abs/1312.1839
>
> I took a peek at the Spinglas PDF and it looks cool, thanks!

I happened on it because Stuart Kauffman's book, The Origins of Order,
mentions that his NK model of complexity is very similar to spin-glass
models in statistical physics. Groveling around the web to find out
what a spin-glass was, I happened on the game. I've never made up the
pieces and played it. But I'm intrigued that you can make a game
from the underlying concepts.

> Here's The Glass Plate Game. It was inspired by Herman Hesse's
> book The Glass Bead Game. I had the good fortune to play GPG at
> Oregon State University with Dunbar Aitkins and several students.
>
> "The object of playing the game is to spark creative and interesting
> conversation between the players. Nobody wins."
>
> https://glassplategame.com/

From the game-play description:

Writing ideas on cards is openended but no opinions are allowed;
no cards may have a question of truth or falseness. Personal
statements are to be made only by relating ideas. Still, a
theory is not an opinion. Thus the idea "cars as a vile public
nuisance" is acceptable whereas "cars are a vile public
nuisance" is not.

Wow. That calls for disciplined thinking on the fly. Many people
don't routinely make a conscious distinction between theory,
knowledge, opinion or even "what I saw in passing on social media last
week".

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

On 2024-05-20, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
> Wow. That calls for disciplined thinking on the fly. Many people
> don't routinely make a conscious distinction between theory,
> knowledge, opinion or even "what I saw in passing on social media last
> week".

Good point. I guess people might need a facilitator, starting out.
Kind of like a GM or a referee.

Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote or quoted:
>From the game-play description:
>Writing ideas on cards is openended but no opinions are allowed;
>no cards may have a question of truth or falseness. Personal
>statements are to be made only by relating ideas. Still, a
>theory is not an opinion. Thus the idea "cars as a vile public
>nuisance" is acceptable whereas "cars are a vile public
>nuisance" is not.
>Wow. That calls for disciplined thinking on the fly.

Well, this is just what I call the distinction between
a /noun phrase/ and a /verb phrase/.

"Cars as a vile public nuisance" is a noun phrase,
"Cars are a vile public nuisance." is a verb phrase (sentence,
assertion).

I'm of the opinion that Subject lines on Usenet should
be noun phrases.

Using verb phrases (sentences) as Usenet Subject lines is often
abused to spread one-sided viewpoints.

I'm talking about "poisoned" thread titles here, because
people who respond critically are still spreading that message
further.

For example, a poisoned Subject line like that could be,
"John Doe is an idiot."

If someone then responds with "No, John Doe is a very smart
man!", they're still doing so under the Subject line
"Re: John Doe is an idiot," so they're perpetuating that
statement of the Subject line.

A reasonable Subject line could go something like:
"John Doe's mental bandwidth" (a noun phrase).

To avoid poisoned Subject lines on Usenet, I start a brand
new thread if I want to respond to something written under
a poisoned Subject lines.

... if I become aware of it. "Quit Shopping For Fun" is also
a poisoned subject line, because when people superficially
see (maybe on a Web page where the Usenet is mirrored):

Stefan Ram - Quit Shopping For Fun

("Re:" might sometimes be omitted in such cases) it might
sound as if /I/ want to tell people, "Quit shopping for fun!".

So, a less "poisoned" Subject line might just be "Shopping For
Fun" without the "Quit".

Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> To avoid poisoned Subject lines on Usenet, I start a brand new
> thread if I want to respond to something written under a poisoned
> Subject lines.

There is no need for a new thread to change the subject line. Just
change the subject line to a "non-poisned" one. The post will (if
using a proper Usenet reader) still be linked into the hierarchy of the
replies connected to the original one.

Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>>To avoid poisoned Subject lines on Usenet, I start a brand new
>>thread if I want to respond to something written under a poisoned
>>Subject lines.
>There is no need for a new thread to change the subject line. Just
>change the subject line to a "non-poisned" one. The post will (if
>using a proper Usenet reader) still be linked into the hierarchy of the
>replies connected to the original one.

Yes. And in such cases such a linking is exactly what I want to avoid.

In my opinion, today, it's not enough anymore to only take into
consideration how something looks using a proper newsreader. One
also might want to think about how it will look when mirrored in
the Web. In the Web, a post with a changed subject might still
appear on a page titled by the original subject.

Back in the day when mirroring on the web wasn't such a common
practice, I didn't just tweak the subject line, but was a stickler
for adhering to the "(was: ...)" convention to a T, and if I need to
change a subject line that isn't poisoned, I still do it this way.

BTW: Above I used the suggestion "poisoned Subject" I got from a
translation service. Thinking about it then, I wondered whether
"tainted Subject" would be more apt. Both are translations of
the German "vergiftet", but I know "tainted" from "tainted love"
and "tainted Subject" seems to be similar in the idea. - And
I used an uppercase "S" in "Subject" because thats the exact tag
of the Subject line in a Usenet post.

Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> writes:

> On 2024-05-19, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>> More generally, "What's happenin'?" fail to
>> provoke a couple of dozen sentences of reflective text, let alone a
>> long reflection/discursion on a topic.
>>
>> And it can't be blamed on the younger generation with a generational
>> slant or karoshi careers so busy that there's no time for reflection.
>> All my correspondents are near or past retirement age.
>
> Thanks for your long and thoughtful reply.
>
> I have noticed changes in local social conventions. When i was a
> kid, it was okay to drop in unannounced and knock on the door or ring
> the doorbell. If the person was busy, they would either say so, or not
> answer. Now it is considered rude to show up unannounced without
> texting ahead of time.

I've noticed the same, unfortunately. It's very interesting how the
world changes only for some (or most) people. It's not an age thing
because most people who are older than me behave in the new way and some
very young people do not behave this new way. So I can't explain the
phenomenon.

Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:

> Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> writes:
>
>> Quit Shopping For Fun
>> =====================
>> A zine with ideas to entertain yourself and others for free
>>
>> Created by the FrugalGamer
>> <https://thefrugalgamer.net>
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> Writing & Journaling
>> ====================
>> This doesn't work for everyone, and that's fine. But if you like, you
>> can create worlds and characters, people, and events entirely in your
>> head, for free. Creativity is a wonderful gift, and what most people
>> don't realize it's like a muscle. Once you practice, it gets easier!
>
> Indeed it doesn't work for everyone. I have several friends whom I
> see f2f infrequently for various reasons. They're all university
> educated, some with advanced degrees, one with a PhD in English
> literature.
>
> And I can't get them to write me letters. They all have and use email
> but the best I can evoke from them is a short paragraph, more usually
> a couple of lines.

One fact to keep in mind is that it seems desktop computing use has
lowered drastically in favor of devices that you can't type almost
anything on. (I also see most people often tired /and/ busy.)

> And it can't be blamed on the younger generation with a generational
> slant or karoshi careers so busy that there's no time for reflection.
> All my correspondents are near or past retirement age.

I agree. I don't think it's an age thing. I exchange e-mails (and NNTP
posts) on a daily basis with some (busy) young people. (Of course, they
could be exceptional cases, but then we'd have a lot exceptions in the
non-young crowd as well.)

Honestly, what I see in the population at large is a certain generalized
depressed behavior. When people don't enjoy discussing things, I think
there's something non-natural going on. (And it doesn't seem to be
regional either: I'm in the hemisphere opposite to yours.)

Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> wrote or quoted:
>Honestly, what I see in the population at large is a certain generalized
>depressed behavior.

This rings a bell about something I caught wind of in
the papers recently. It was just the opening salvo of
a German-language article, with the rest locked behind a
paywall. The part I could scope out basically said:

(name abbreviated by me, "home" below refers to Germany)

|Whenever G. is back home for a few days, she just wants to
|get away: "In Germany, the men all walk around with such long
|faces, you immerse yourself in this gray world so quickly,"
|says the 65-year-old. In Italy, on the other hand, everyone
|says hello on the street, everyone is warm, helpful and in a
|good mood.

I'm not totally convinced you can broad-brush those two countries
based on that one personal experience, though.

Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> with the rest locked behind a
> paywall.

https://archive.is/ will, in many cases, get around a very many news
sites 'paywalls'.

ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:

> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote or quoted:
>
>> From the game-play description:
>>
>> Writing ideas on cards is openended but no opinions are allowed;
>> no cards may have a question of truth or falseness. Personal
>> statements are to be made only by relating ideas. Still, a
>> theory is not an opinion. Thus the idea "cars as a vile public
>> nuisance" is acceptable whereas "cars are a vile public
>> nuisance" is not.
>>
>> Wow. That calls for disciplined thinking on the fly.
>
> Well, this is just what I call the distinction between
> a /noun phrase/ and a /verb phrase/.
>
> "Cars as a vile public nuisance" is a noun phrase,
> "Cars are a vile public nuisance." is a verb phrase (sentence,
> assertion).
>
> I'm of the opinion that Subject lines on Usenet should
> be noun phrases.
>
> Using verb phrases (sentences) as Usenet Subject lines is often
> abused to spread one-sided viewpoints.
>
> I'm talking about "poisoned" thread titles here, because
> people who respond critically are still spreading that message
> further.
>
> For example, a poisoned Subject line like that could be,
> "John Doe is an idiot."

You should repost this to alt.usage.english (on topic for an active
group not flooded with penc) along w/ my quote from the game-play
description.

I agree. I sometimes hesitate to follow up to a post to avoid being
on record as having posted under the "poisoned" topic.

> If someone then responds with "No, John Doe is a very smart
> man!", they're still doing so under the Subject line
> "Re: John Doe is an idiot," so they're perpetuating that
> statement of the Subject line.
>
> A reasonable Subject line could go something like:
> "John Doe's mental bandwidth" (a noun phrase).
>
> To avoid poisoned Subject lines on Usenet, I start a brand
> new thread if I want to respond to something written under
> a poisoned Subject lines.
>
> ... if I become aware of it. "Quit Shopping For Fun" is also
> a poisoned subject line, because when people superficially
> see (maybe on a Web page where the Usenet is mirrored):
>
> Stefan Ram - Quit Shopping For Fun
>
> ("Re:" might sometimes be omitted in such cases) it might
> sound as if /I/ want to tell people, "Quit shopping for fun!".
>
> So, a less "poisoned" Subject line might just be "Shopping For
> Fun" without the "Quit".

Good catch, interesting take. ()()()

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> writes:

> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>
>> Indeed it doesn't work for everyone. I have several friends whom I
>> see f2f infrequently for various reasons. They're all university
>> educated, some with advanced degrees, one with a PhD in English
>> literature.
>>
>> And I can't get them to write me letters. They all have and use email
>> but the best I can evoke from them is a short paragraph, more usually
>> a couple of lines.
>
> One fact to keep in mind is that it seems desktop computing use has
> lowered drastically in favor of devices that you can't type almost
> anything on.

Y'know, I totally overlook/forget that. I'm an amateur/wannabe
avocationalq programmer since CP/M but have only had a smart phone for
a year and barely know how to (resentfully, grumblingly) use it at
all. I have 4 {desk-,lap-}top Linux computers.

> (I also see most people often tired /and/ busy.)
>
>> And it can't be blamed on the younger generation with a generational
>> slant or karoshi careers so busy that there's no time for reflection.
>> All my correspondents are near or past retirement age.
>
> I agree. I don't think it's an age thing. I exchange e-mails (and NNTP
> posts) on a daily basis with some (busy) young people. (Of course, they
> could be exceptional cases, but then we'd have a lot exceptions in the
> non-young crowd as well.)
>
> Honestly, what I see in the population at large is a certain generalized
> depressed behavior. When people don't enjoy discussing things, I think
> there's something non-natural going on. (And it doesn't seem to be
> regional either: I'm in the hemisphere opposite to yours.)

Or don't want to think about things. My one thoughtful, agreeably
articulate correspondent, a fellow octogenarian, says he's been
politically active all his adult life but finds the existing US
political chaos and impending increase in same something that defeats
ordinary, non-fanatical scrutiny and doesn't want to think about
it. (He does so anyway, of course, but US politics isn't the bulk of
our correspondence.)

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:

[...]

>>> And it can't be blamed on the younger generation with a generational
>>> slant or karoshi careers so busy that there's no time for reflection.
>>> All my correspondents are near or past retirement age.
>>
>> I agree. I don't think it's an age thing. I exchange e-mails (and NNTP
>> posts) on a daily basis with some (busy) young people. (Of course, they
>> could be exceptional cases, but then we'd have a lot exceptions in the
>> non-young crowd as well.)
>>
>> Honestly, what I see in the population at large is a certain generalized
>> depressed behavior. When people don't enjoy discussing things, I think
>> there's something non-natural going on. (And it doesn't seem to be
>> regional either: I'm in the hemisphere opposite to yours.)
>
> Or don't want to think about things.

Yes. When you're tired, sick, depressed, there's not enough energy to
think about things.

> My one thoughtful, agreeably articulate correspondent, a fellow
> octogenarian, says he's been politically active all his adult life but
> finds the existing US political chaos and impending increase in same
> something that defeats ordinary, non-fanatical scrutiny and doesn't
> want to think about it. (He does so anyway, of course, but US politics
> isn't the bulk of our correspondence.)

It's the same here. Coincidentally, I have daily conversations with an
octogenarian (as well). It's a person who is quite active in every
aspect of life. It's an intelligent person. We discuss politics,
science, medicine, what have you, pretty much every day. It's the only
octogenarian that I know that can discuss these things. I'm not saying
this is a knowlegeable person (although it is). I'm saying it's an
intelligent person. I don't really care whether people have a lot of
good information. What is very relevant in a conversation is the
thought process. I used to love to talk to teenagers and up but,
remarkably, I have not been having much discussion on such topics with
young people because they're all pretty busy with school work
(university work). We talk about school work somewhat, but it's all
very limited because they're exhausted as well. (And I suspect that a
chunk of the energy also goes into things like TV series and
video-games.) More importantly, I also suspect that they don't eat the
best food they could (for various reasons). And I think that might be a
major problem. I see a strong connection between nutrition and mental
state, the decisions one makes on a daily basis and the outlook on the
world and on life.

It's nice to see you folks here. It's always very nice to see people
doing well in other places. Thanks for being on the USENET.

On 20 May 2024 17:24:28 -0300
Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:

>
> ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:
>
> > Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote or quoted:
> >
> >> From the game-play description:
> >>
> >> Writing ideas on cards is openended but no opinions are allowed;
> >> no cards may have a question of truth or falseness. Personal
> >> statements are to be made only by relating ideas. Still, a
> >> theory is not an opinion. Thus the idea "cars as a vile public
> >> nuisance" is acceptable whereas "cars are a vile public
> >> nuisance" is not.
> >>
> >> Wow. That calls for disciplined thinking on the fly.
> >
> > Well, this is just what I call the distinction between
> > a /noun phrase/ and a /verb phrase/.
> >
> > "Cars as a vile public nuisance" is a noun phrase,
> > "Cars are a vile public nuisance." is a verb phrase (sentence,
> > assertion).
> >
> > I'm of the opinion that Subject lines on Usenet should
> > be noun phrases.
> >
> > Using verb phrases (sentences) as Usenet Subject lines is often
> > abused to spread one-sided viewpoints.
> >
> > I'm talking about "poisoned" thread titles here, because
> > people who respond critically are still spreading that message
> > further.
> >
> > For example, a poisoned Subject line like that could be,
> > "John Doe is an idiot."
>
> You should repost this to alt.usage.english (on topic for an active
> group not flooded with penc) along w/ my quote from the game-play
> description.
>
> I agree. I sometimes hesitate to follow up to a post to avoid being
> on record as having posted under the "poisoned" topic.
>
> > If someone then responds with "No, John Doe is a very smart
> > man!", they're still doing so under the Subject line
> > "Re: John Doe is an idiot," so they're perpetuating that
> > statement of the Subject line.
> >
> > A reasonable Subject line could go something like:
> > "John Doe's mental bandwidth" (a noun phrase).
> >
> > To avoid poisoned Subject lines on Usenet, I start a brand
> > new thread if I want to respond to something written under
> > a poisoned Subject lines.
> >
> > ... if I become aware of it. "Quit Shopping For Fun" is also
> > a poisoned subject line, because when people superficially
> > see (maybe on a Web page where the Usenet is mirrored):
> >
> > Stefan Ram - Quit Shopping For Fun
> >
> > ("Re:" might sometimes be omitted in such cases) it might
> > sound as if /I/ want to tell people, "Quit shopping for fun!".
> >
> > So, a less "poisoned" Subject line might just be "Shopping For
> > Fun" without the "Quit".
>
> Good catch, interesting take. ()()()
>
....but was the touchdown completed correctly? - nope (I've tweaked the
subject line and xposted as was suggested). Tesponders please feel free to
set FU on reply.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.