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comp / comp.misc / Re: terminal only for two weeks

SubjectAuthor
* terminal only for two weeksRetrograde
+- Re: terminal only for two weeksD
+* Re: terminal only for two weeksLawrence D'Oliveiro
|+* Re: terminal only for two weeksMike Spencer
||`- Re: terminal only for two weeksLawrence D'Oliveiro
|+* Re: terminal only for two weeksyeti
||`- Re: terminal only for two weeksLawrence D'Oliveiro
|`* Re: terminal only for two weekscandycanearter07
| +* Re: terminal only for two weeksyeti
| |`- Re: terminal only for two weekscandycanearter07
| `* Re: terminal only for two weeksLawrence D'Oliveiro
|  `* Re: terminal only for two weekscandycanearter07
|   `* Re: terminal only for two weeksLawrence D'Oliveiro
|    `* Re: terminal only for two weekscandycanearter07
|     `- Re: terminal only for two weeksLawrence D'Oliveiro
+* Re: terminal only for two weeksJohn McCue
|`* Re: terminal only for two weeksD
| `* Re: terminal only for two weeksyeti
|  `* Re: terminal only for two weeksD
|   +* Re: terminal only for two weeksComputer Nerd Kev
|   |`* Re: terminal only for two weeksD
|   | `* Re: terminal only for two weeksComputer Nerd Kev
|   |  +- Re: terminal only for two weeksyeti
|   |  `* Re: terminal only for two weeksD
|   |   `* Re: terminal only for two weeksComputer Nerd Kev
|   |    +- Re: terminal only for two weeksD
|   |    `* Re: terminal only for two weeksyeti
|   |     `* Re: terminal only for two weeksD
|   |      `- Re: terminal only for two weeksD
|   `* Re: terminal only for two weeksMike Spencer
|    +* Re: terminal only for two weeksD
|    |`* Re: terminal only for two weeksMike Spencer
|    | +- Re: terminal only for two weeksLawrence D'Oliveiro
|    | +- Re: terminal only for two weeksD
|    | `* URIs within URIs: google.com/url?q= et al.Ivan Shmakov
|    |  +- Re: URIs within URIs: google.com/url?q= et al.Andy Burns
|    |  `- Re: URIs within URIs: google.com/url?q= et al.Mike Spencer
|    `* Re: terminal only for two weeksOregonian Haruspex
|     `* Re: terminal only for two weeksLawrence D'Oliveiro
|      `* Re: terminal only for two weekscandycanearter07
|       +* Re: terminal only for two weeksLawrence D'Oliveiro
|       |`* Re: terminal only for two weeksComputer Nerd Kev
|       | `* Re: terminal only for two weeksroot
|       |  +* Re: terminal only for two weeksBozo User
|       |  |+* Re: terminal only for two weeksD
|       |  ||`* Re: terminal only for two weeksComputer Nerd Kev
|       |  || `- Re: terminal only for two weeksD
|       |  |`* webIvan Shmakov
|       |  | +* Re: webComputer Nerd Kev
|       |  | |+- Re: webyeti
|       |  | |`* Re: webIvan Shmakov
|       |  | | `- Re: webComputer Nerd Kev
|       |  | `- Re: webDave Yeo
|       |  `- Re: terminal only for two weeksBozo User
|       `* Re: terminal only for two weeksyeti
|        `- Re: terminal only for two weeksyeti
+- Re: terminal only for two weeksAnssi Saari
`* Re: terminal only for two weeksBozo User
 `* Re: terminal only for two weeksSalvador Mirzo
  `* Re: terminal only for two weeksD
   `* Re: terminal only for two weeksSalvador Mirzo
    +- Re: terminal only for two weeksD
    `* Re: terminal only for two weeksSalvador Mirzo
     +- Re: terminal only for two weeksRich
     `- Re: terminal only for two weeksComputer Nerd Kev

Pages:123
Subject: Re: terminal only for two weeks
From: D
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 09:48 UTC
References: 1 2 3
Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nospam@example.net (D)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: terminal only for two weeks
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 10:48:17 +0100
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID: <ffbaedfa-daa4-445f-555c-afb7937f8fc4@example.net>
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On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote:

> Bozo User <anthk@disroot.org> writes:
>
> [...]
>
>> In my case, I use cwm+uxterm+a bunch of cli/tui apps, such as profanity,
>> catgirl, mocp... and the only X software I use are sxiv, mpv and mupdf.
>> Oh, and GV for a random PostScript file. That's it.
>
> I too run cwm+uxterm! But then I add the GNU EMACS on top.
>
> Thanks for mentioning mupdf---fast and nice. I wonder if it can display
> the outline of a pdf (if available).
>

I use qpdf. Has sessions, and is fairly light weight.

Subject: Re: terminal only for two weeks
From: Salvador Mirzo
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 19:24 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4
Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: smirzo@example.com (Salvador Mirzo)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: terminal only for two weeks
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 16:24:27 -0300
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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D <nospam@example.net> writes:

> On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote:
>
>> Bozo User <anthk@disroot.org> writes:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> In my case, I use cwm+uxterm+a bunch of cli/tui apps, such as profanity,
>>> catgirl, mocp... and the only X software I use are sxiv, mpv and mupdf.
>>> Oh, and GV for a random PostScript file. That's it.
>>
>> I too run cwm+uxterm! But then I add the GNU EMACS on top.
>>
>> Thanks for mentioning mupdf---fast and nice. I wonder if it can display
>> the outline of a pdf (if available).
>>
>
> I use qpdf. Has sessions, and is fairly light weight.

Wonderful! Pretty nice as well. Very easy to use. Now, it can't seem
to use lpr for printing? That's how I print. :) But I can workaround it
by figuring out how to tell lpr to tell my printer to only print a few
pages I'm interested in and then use the command line. Thanks for
mentioning qpdf.

Subject: Re: terminal only for two weeks
From: Computer Nerd Kev
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Organization: Ausics - https://newsgroups.ausics.net
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 20:52 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Message-ID: <67857cf3@news.ausics.net>
From: not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Subject: Re: terminal only for two weeks
Newsgroups: comp.misc
References: <67447ce1$0$22$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> <vi3ecs$35u53$1@dont-email.me> <6c4ae24b-7bb8-7d84-8f74-1f5fc14c0ec0@example.net> <87ed2yjkl8.fsf@tilde.institute> <55db8483-58f0-c3dc-de0b-7f44881fa180@example.net> <87jzcp4pzy.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere> <viorqr$mnrh$1@dont-email.me> <viotl0$n3vg$1@dont-email.me> <slrnvl0pq8.1ddsk.candycanearter07@candydeb.host.invalid> <vir0m3$17csf$3@dont-email.me> <6754c3a1@news.ausics.net> <vj49do$3r1ov$1@dont-email.me> <vm1hk3$1etjc$1@dont-email.me> <b1184f62-37d0-d731-79a4-bdf91de14663@example.net>
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D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, Bozo User wrote:
>> Once you get a Gopher/Gemini browser, among yt-dlp, the web can go away.
>>
>> Try these under lynx:
>>
>> gopher://magical.fish
>> gopher://gopherddit.com
>> gopher://sdf.org
>> gopher://hngopher.com
>>
>> gemini://gemi.dev (head to news waffle)
>>
>> Magical Fish it's a HUGE portal and even a 386 would be
>> able to use the services. You have a news source,
>> a translator, stock prices, weather, wikipedia over gopher,
>> Gutenberg, torrent search...
>>
>> Have fun.
>
> I imagine it would be very easy to write scripts to pull in what ever
> regular www site you might like and move it to gopher.

If it has a friendly API and that doesn't change every month. I
notice Gopherddit.com is broken, it just says "Subreddit not found"
for everything. Not that I care to read Reddit anyway.

> I will have to remember magical.fish. Gohper works beautifully in links!

No Gopher support in Links, I guess you mean ELinks or Lynx.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Subject: Re: terminal only for two weeks
From: D
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 17:50 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5
Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nospam@example.net (D)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: terminal only for two weeks
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 18:50:51 +0100
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID: <688a45b3-cd06-6aeb-f093-746d9aa8d059@example.net>
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On Mon, 13 Jan 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote:

> D <nospam@example.net> writes:
>
>> On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote:
>>
>>> Bozo User <anthk@disroot.org> writes:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>> In my case, I use cwm+uxterm+a bunch of cli/tui apps, such as profanity,
>>>> catgirl, mocp... and the only X software I use are sxiv, mpv and mupdf.
>>>> Oh, and GV for a random PostScript file. That's it.
>>>
>>> I too run cwm+uxterm! But then I add the GNU EMACS on top.
>>>
>>> Thanks for mentioning mupdf---fast and nice. I wonder if it can display
>>> the outline of a pdf (if available).
>>>
>>
>> I use qpdf. Has sessions, and is fairly light weight.
>
> Wonderful! Pretty nice as well. Very easy to use. Now, it can't seem
> to use lpr for printing? That's how I print. :) But I can workaround it
> by figuring out how to tell lpr to tell my printer to only print a few
> pages I'm interested in and then use the command line. Thanks for
> mentioning qpdf.
>

You're welcome! =)

Subject: Re: terminal only for two weeks
From: D
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 17:54 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: nospam@example.net (D)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: terminal only for two weeks
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 18:54:15 +0100
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID: <9d472316-1423-ad87-6c5a-37d5e47c88b1@example.net>
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On Mon, 14 Jan 2025, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, Bozo User wrote:
>>> Once you get a Gopher/Gemini browser, among yt-dlp, the web can go away.
>>>
>>> Try these under lynx:
>>>
>>> gopher://magical.fish
>>> gopher://gopherddit.com
>>> gopher://sdf.org
>>> gopher://hngopher.com
>>>
>>> gemini://gemi.dev (head to news waffle)
>>>
>>> Magical Fish it's a HUGE portal and even a 386 would be
>>> able to use the services. You have a news source,
>>> a translator, stock prices, weather, wikipedia over gopher,
>>> Gutenberg, torrent search...
>>>
>>> Have fun.
>>
>> I imagine it would be very easy to write scripts to pull in what ever
>> regular www site you might like and move it to gopher.
>
> If it has a friendly API and that doesn't change every month. I
> notice Gopherddit.com is broken, it just says "Subreddit not found"
> for everything. Not that I care to read Reddit anyway.
>
>> I will have to remember magical.fish. Gohper works beautifully in links!
>
> No Gopher support in Links, I guess you mean ELinks or Lynx.

This is correct. I meant elinks. Apologies for the confusion.

Subject: Re: terminal only for two weeks
From: Salvador Mirzo
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2025 01:10 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5
Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: smirzo@example.com (Salvador Mirzo)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: terminal only for two weeks
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 22:10:38 -0300
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> writes:

[...]

>> I use qpdf. Has sessions, and is fairly light weight.
>
> Wonderful! Pretty nice as well. Very easy to use. Now, it can't seem
> to use lpr for printing? That's how I print. :) But I can workaround it
> by figuring out how to tell lpr to tell my printer to only print a few
> pages I'm interested in and then use the command line. Thanks for
> mentioning qpdf.

I suspect I imagine wrong how things actually work. I thought perhaps
there would be a command line such as ``lpr --pages 7-14''. Now I
believe a program like evince generates a PostScript of the pages you
asked it to and then sends this complete PostScript document of the
pages you requested to a pipe or file on disk that lpr sends to the
printer. So, if qpdf doesn't do the same, I'm out of luck in terms of
printing with lpr. But I think I can find a program that takes page
ranges and transformations like scaling and produces a PostScript
document that I can send to lpr, so I can use qpdfview and use the
command line to print stuff out.

Subject: Re: terminal only for two weeks
From: Rich
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2025 04:15 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: rich@example.invalid (Rich)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: terminal only for two weeks
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2025 04:15:53 -0000 (UTC)
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Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> wrote:
> Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> writes:
>
> [...]
>
>>> I use qpdf. Has sessions, and is fairly light weight.
>>
>> Wonderful! Pretty nice as well. Very easy to use. Now, it can't seem
>> to use lpr for printing? That's how I print. :) But I can workaround it
>> by figuring out how to tell lpr to tell my printer to only print a few
>> pages I'm interested in and then use the command line. Thanks for
>> mentioning qpdf.
>
> I suspect I imagine wrong how things actually work. I thought perhaps
> there would be a command line such as ``lpr --pages 7-14''. Now I
> believe a program like evince generates a PostScript of the pages you
> asked it to and then sends this complete PostScript document of the
> pages you requested to a pipe or file on disk that lpr sends to the
> printer.

Yes, selecting "which pages" happens before the result gets sent to lpr
(or cups).

> But I think I can find a program that takes page ranges and
> transformations like scaling and produces a PostScript document that
> I can send to lpr, so I can use qpdfview and use the command line to
> print stuff out.

If you are dealing with pdf files, then pdftk
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDFtk> works very well of doing various
transforms on pdf files (including selecting a subset of pages, that do
not have to all be contiguous).

If you have actual postscript files, you can use ghostscript from the
command line to "distill" them to pdf (note ghostscrpts "pdfwrite"
output driver) and then use pdftk for further transforming.

Subject: Re: terminal only for two weeks
From: Computer Nerd Kev
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Organization: Ausics - https://newsgroups.ausics.net
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2025 05:58 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Message-ID: <6788a003@news.ausics.net>
From: not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Subject: Re: terminal only for two weeks
Newsgroups: comp.misc
References: <67447ce1$0$22$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> <vm1hk4$1etjc$3@dont-email.me> <87bjwb4jat.fsf@example.com> <ffbaedfa-daa4-445f-555c-afb7937f8fc4@example.net> <87plkq34b8.fsf@example.com> <87o7071s35.fsf@example.com>
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Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> wrote:
> Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> writes:
>> Wonderful! Pretty nice as well. Very easy to use. Now, it can't seem
>> to use lpr for printing? That's how I print. :) But I can workaround it
>> by figuring out how to tell lpr to tell my printer to only print a few
>> pages I'm interested in and then use the command line. Thanks for
>> mentioning qpdf.
>
> I suspect I imagine wrong how things actually work. I thought perhaps
> there would be a command line such as ``lpr --pages 7-14''. Now I
> believe a program like evince generates a PostScript of the pages you
> asked it to and then sends this complete PostScript document of the
> pages you requested to a pipe or file on disk that lpr sends to the
> printer. So, if qpdf doesn't do the same, I'm out of luck in terms of
> printing with lpr. But I think I can find a program that takes page
> ranges and transformations like scaling and produces a PostScript
> document that I can send to lpr, so I can use qpdfview and use the
> command line to print stuff out.

If you want a Postscript file of a page range from a PDF, convert the
PDF to Postscript first then use psselect from psutils. Or use the
"save marked" function in gv, which I personally use as my default
PDF viewer.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Subject: web
From: Ivan Shmakov
Newsgroups: comp.misc, comp.infosystems.www.misc
Followup: comp.misc
Organization: Dbus-free station.
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2025 07:55 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid (Ivan Shmakov)
Newsgroups: comp.misc,comp.infosystems.www.misc
Subject: web
Followup-To: comp.misc
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2025 07:55:45 +0000
Organization: Dbus-free station.
Lines: 68
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<87ed2yjkl8.fsf@tilde.institute>
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<87jzcp4pzy.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere> <viorqr$mnrh$1@dont-email.me>
<viotl0$n3vg$1@dont-email.me>
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Injection-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2025 09:00:13 +0100 (CET)
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logging-data="3600288"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX182VWmzXWQ7A4bCLPhXQBPE"
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>>>>> On 2025-01-12, Bozo User wrote:

[Cross-posting to news:comp.infosystems.www.misc just in case, but
setting Followup-To: comp.misc so as to keep the thread there.]

> Once you get a Gopher/Gemini browser, among yt-dlp, the web can go away.

While I do appreciate the availability of yt-dlp, I feel like
a huge part of the reason Chromium is huge is so it can support
Youtube. Granted, there doesn't seem to be as many DSAs for
video software (codecs and players) [1], but it's still the
kind of software I'd rather keep at least in a container.

[1] news:linux.debian.announce.security

(Not that I see much reason to listen to a video blogger talk
for fifteen minutes to convey the same information I can get
from five minutes of reading in the first place. A relative
of mine watches most of videos at double speed, but I don't
have that kind of fast listening skill myself, alas.)

Perhaps more important is that the Web can be understood as
a bunch of interlinked resources identified by URIs. And even
though modern browsers might fail to handle some of them,
traditional ones (like Lynx and, reportedly, SeaMonkey) still
support things like news:, mailto:, gopher:, and even ftp:.

> Try these under lynx:

> gopher://magical.fish
> gopher://gopherddit.com
> gopher://sdf.org
> gopher://hngopher.com

> gemini://gemi.dev (head to news waffle)

By the by, what's the equivalent of wget(1) for gopher:?

I understand that a lot of website operators don't care about
making their sites easy to download (and some, like the
aforementioned Youtube, try their best to make downloading hard,
for reasons), but I still care about downloading them regardless.

Of course, I try to make my own webpages compatible with
"wget -p"; e. g.:

http://am-1.org/~ivan/qinp-2021/096.sys.en.xhtml
http://am-1.org/~ivan/qinp-2024/112.l-system.en.xhtml

(I intend to implement Rsync access at some point as well,
though no concrete plan ATM.)

> Magical Fish it's a HUGE portal and even a 386 would be able to use
> the services.

I do, in fact, have a Am386 box on my LAN with Lynx on it, but
it won't work as I don't do NAT, preferring an application level
gateway, Polipo, instead. (Reasoning vaguely along the lines
that I'd rather have a proxy crash, than kernel.) Polipo, though,
only supports HTTP; as well as CONNECT, but Lynx can't use that
for accessing gopher:. (Squid provides HTTP access to ftp: and,
IIRC, gopher:, but it's been a decade since I've last ran it.)

> You have a news source, a translator, stock prices, weather,
> wikipedia over gopher, Gutenberg, torrent search...

Is Wikipedia over gopher any better in Lynx than Wikipedia over
HTTP? Same for Gutenberg.

Subject: Re: terminal only for two weeks
From: yeti
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Organization: Democratic Order of Pirates International (DOPI)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2025 11:00 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.swapon.de!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!reader5.news.weretis.net!news.solani.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: yeti@tilde.institute (yeti)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: terminal only for two weeks
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2025 11:42:29 +0042
Organization: Democratic Order of Pirates International (DOPI)
Message-ID: <874j1z10s2.fsf@tilde.institute>
References: <67447ce1$0$22$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
<vi3ecs$35u53$1@dont-email.me>
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<87jzcp4pzy.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere> <viorqr$mnrh$1@dont-email.me>
<viotl0$n3vg$1@dont-email.me>
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<87a5da65ho.fsf@tilde.institute>
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Injection-Info: solani.org;
logging-data="60700"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@news.solani.org"
Keywords: browser, Chawan, JS
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:RPy/HFtaqvBsFIxkAxhX1uVIhng= sha1:o9NTb/6WQLScCSEdWXPG/Na0mgk=
X-User-ID: eJwFwQEBADAEBMBKDI842PSPsDsTMMYVBrW13eq9kxwHOzbvJO5UM73suurRFCPG4iTVVB9AGRHg
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`mj:w>@KY3N6`v6Y!/<)"&OTwwj<}i=2g^/|Mp#95.z4HsbUizxbZ*4X085{X||BvThEN9wD=Q1o7"
5d3u_b|SUTt
Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAQMAAABtzGvEAAAABlBMVEUAAAD///+l2Z/dAAAAiklEQVQY02NgoCUQOASmOJwPAElGjuQfIIrH8A9IsK3wJ0jFMcPHDUAVxywPNzCw8Dy3bD7AwMzy+Q/7AQbGvuq57QsYGI+brz+fwMDw+9re/x8YGLPcFP8/YGBccaTg4QcG5o4WBeYGBnaBngTDBJBFDvUHQBY5/G8AWXHgH9j65h9gitmBgfYAAJOqKugnjqEOAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC
X-Keywords: ignore
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I haven't yet managed to get JS (and Sixels) running with Elinks, but
there is:

<https://sr.ht/~bptato/chawan/>

JS works at least a bit, maybe just enough for Gitea?

<https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=53922#p53922>

Despite allowing JS and cookies I couldn't use Google[0].

Fossil's menu does open with JS disabled, but I cannot select stuff in
there. With JS allowed it doesn't even open.

<https://www.fossil-scm.org>

I see frequent changes in Chawan, so maybe this is the one to watch now
and maybe tomorrow stuff that glitches today may be working.

____________

[0]: But meh ... there are alternatives[1].

[1]: DDG
<https://duckduckgo.com/>
FrogFind
<http://www.frogfind.com/>

--
4. Hitchhiker 11:
(72) "Watch the road!'' she yelped.
(73) "Shit!"

Subject: Re: web
From: Computer Nerd Kev
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Organization: Ausics - https://newsgroups.ausics.net
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2025 21:10 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Message-ID: <678975ab@news.ausics.net>
From: not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Subject: Re: web
Newsgroups: comp.misc
References: <67447ce1$0$22$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> <vi3ecs$35u53$1@dont-email.me> <6c4ae24b-7bb8-7d84-8f74-1f5fc14c0ec0@example.net> <87ed2yjkl8.fsf@tilde.institute> <55db8483-58f0-c3dc-de0b-7f44881fa180@example.net> <87jzcp4pzy.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere> <viorqr$mnrh$1@dont-email.me> <viotl0$n3vg$1@dont-email.me> <slrnvl0pq8.1ddsk.candycanearter07@candydeb.host.invalid> <vir0m3$17csf$3@dont-email.me> <6754c3a1@news.ausics.net> <vj49do$3r1ov$1@dont-email.me> <vm1hk3$1etjc$1@dont-email.me> <6Qspx-PwipMTzeeG@violet.siamics.net>
User-Agent: tin/2.0.1-20111224 ("Achenvoir") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.31 (i586))
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In comp.misc Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netremove.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-01-12, Bozo User wrote:
> > Once you get a Gopher/Gemini browser, among yt-dlp, the web can go away.
>
> While I do appreciate the availability of yt-dlp, I feel like
> a huge part of the reason Chromium is huge is so it can support
> Youtube. Granted, there doesn't seem to be as many DSAs for
> video software (codecs and players) [1], but it's still the
> kind of software I'd rather keep at least in a container.

You fear that a hacker can upload a YouTube video containing an
exploit and manage to pass that exploit through YouTube's
transcoding in order to attack Linux video player programs? Seems
like a big stretch to me.

> By the by, what's the equivalent of wget(1) for gopher:?

Curl supports Gopher. Not Gemini though.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Subject: Re: web
From: Dave Yeo
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2025 02:04 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx11.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail
Subject: Re: web
Newsgroups: comp.misc
References: <67447ce1$0$22$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
<vi3ecs$35u53$1@dont-email.me>
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<6Qspx-PwipMTzeeG@violet.siamics.net>
From: dave.r.yeo@gmail.com (Dave Yeo)
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (OS/2; Warp 4.5; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/45.0
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Ivan Shmakov wrote:
....
> And even
> though modern browsers might fail to handle some of them,
> traditional ones (like Lynx and, reportedly, SeaMonkey) still
> support things like news:, mailto:, gopher:, and even ftp:.

My SeaMonkey needs an extension to handle gopher. I have Dooble, a QT
browser, chromium based, that does do gopher. Someone tried to convince
the author to support Gemini but didn't make a good enough case for it.
>
> > Try these under lynx:
>
> > gopher://magical.fish
> > gopher://gopherddit.com
> > gopher://sdf.org
> > gopher://hngopher.com
>
> > gemini://gemi.dev (head to news waffle)
>
> By the by, what's the equivalent of wget(1) for gopher:?

Curl seems to work for gopher.
Dave

Subject: Re: web
From: yeti
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Organization: Democratic Order of Pirates International (DOPI)
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2025 04:16 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!reader5.news.weretis.net!news.solani.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: yeti@tilde.institute (yeti)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: web
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2025 04:58:19 +0042
Organization: Democratic Order of Pirates International (DOPI)
Message-ID: <874j1yyt0s.fsf@tilde.institute>
References: <67447ce1$0$22$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
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<87jzcp4pzy.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere> <viorqr$mnrh$1@dont-email.me>
<viotl0$n3vg$1@dont-email.me>
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<vir0m3$17csf$3@dont-email.me> <6754c3a1@news.ausics.net>
<vj49do$3r1ov$1@dont-email.me> <vm1hk3$1etjc$1@dont-email.me>
<6Qspx-PwipMTzeeG@violet.siamics.net> <678975ab@news.ausics.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Injection-Info: solani.org;
logging-data="85300"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@news.solani.org"
Keywords: gemini, nc, ncat, netcat
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:d3+oq3gs47JI2u7wgyCNNQ/Zn4w= sha1:TIiDnascIeSeG2wJ2ix0B2/kmM0=
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5d3u_b|SUTt
Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAQMAAABtzGvEAAAABlBMVEUAAAD///+l2Z/dAAAAiklEQVQY02NgoCUQOASmOJwPAElGjuQfIIrH8A9IsK3wJ0jFMcPHDUAVxywPNzCw8Dy3bD7AwMzy+Q/7AQbGvuq57QsYGI+brz+fwMDw+9re/x8YGLPcFP8/YGBccaTg4QcG5o4WBeYGBnaBngTDBJBFDvUHQBY5/G8AWXHgH9j65h9gitmBgfYAAJOqKugnjqEOAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC
X-User-ID: eJwFwQERADEIAzBLDy1lkwPs8C/hk4BMk1SIsbGjJgrsrXlT5kj15atzbeXtdT8kPfc0wuIHKosQ9w==
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not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) wrote:

> Curl supports Gopher. Not Gemini though.

Ncat and Netcat (check the existence of '-c' and '-T') can fetch stuff
from Gemini servers:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
$ printf 'gemini://geminiprotocol.net/\r\n' \
| ncat --ssl geminiprotocol.net 1965 | less
------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------------
$ printf 'gemini://geminiprotocol.net/\r\n' \
| nc -c -T noverify geminiprotocol.net 1965 | less
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wrapping that in some hands full of AWK to find links and iterate over
them should not require deep magic.

Some browsers capable of accessing gemini: can save the fetched files'
and gemini pages' source, maybe they would even be easier to integrate
in own scripts?

TL;DR: There is no showstopper.

--
Trust me, I know what I'm doing...

Subject: Re: web
From: Ivan Shmakov
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Organization: Dbus-free station.
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 14:05 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid (Ivan Shmakov)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: web
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 14:05:40 +0000
Organization: Dbus-free station.
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License: CC0-1.0 (original contributions only)
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>>>>> On 2025-01-16, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>> In comp.misc Ivan Shmakov wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-01-12, Bozo User wrote:

>>> Once you get a Gopher/Gemini browser, among yt-dlp, the web can go away.

I. e., my point being: you can't escape web by switching to
Gopher, because Gopher /is/ web. (Even if 'darker' part of it.)

>> While I do appreciate the availability of yt-dlp, I feel like a
>> huge part of the reason Chromium is huge is so it can support
>> Youtube. Granted, there doesn't seem to be as many DSAs for video
>> software (codecs and players), but it's still the kind of software
>> I'd rather keep at least in a container.

> You fear that a hacker can upload a YouTube video containing
> an exploit and manage to pass that exploit through YouTube's
> transcoding in order to attack Linux video player programs?
> Seems like a big stretch to me.

I'm not familiar with how Youtube processes its videos; I've
never even uploaded anything there myself, much less looked at
their sources for security issues that might or might not be
there.

(I do have experience with Wikimedia Commons, and I'm reasonably
certain that while they offer processed versions of the user
uploads, they still keep the originals in publicly accessible
locations on their servers. Why, I distinctly recall uploading
a fixed version of someone else's malformed SVG file there.)

Neither do I have any idea how opposed they would be to requests
from companies to introduce such security issues deliberately.
(I believe such hypothetical business entities are usually
referred to as "MAFIAA" in colloquial speech, but I can't help
but note that the company that pioneered the approach was in
fact Sony [1].)

[1] http://duckduckgo.com/html/?kd=-1&q="sony"+rootkit+controversy

And even were I to believe for videos downloaded from Youtube
to never ever have any potential security flaw whatsoever,
having two copies of video player software installed, one
within and one without container, would still be ill-advised,
if only for the reason that I might use an out-of-container
install for a potentially unsafe, non-Youtube video by accident.

>> By the by, what's the equivalent of wget(1) for gopher:?

> Curl supports Gopher. Not Gemini though.

Curl is my tool of choice for doing API calls; say (JFTR, [2]
has a couple of complete examples):

$ curl -iv --form-string comment="New file." \
-F file=@my.jpeg -F text=\</dev/fd/5 5< my.jpeg.mw \
--form-string filesize="$(wc -c < my.jpeg)" \
--form-string token="1337cafe+\\" \
... -- https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php\
"?action=upload&format=xml&assert=user"

[2] http://am-1.org/~ivan/src/examples-2024/webwatch.mk

However, I distinctly recall finding it inadequate as a mirroring
tool back in the day. (Though that might've changed meanwhile.)

And similarly for yeti's comment in [3]: I try to share what I know
with others. Such as on IRC. So, suppose someone asks on IRC,
"how do I get an offline copy of gopher://example.com/?"

"You can easily write your own Gopher / Gemini recursive
downloader yourself" is not something I'd be comfortable giving
as an answer, TBH. (Though I /would/ be comfortable with
providing assistance if someone explicitly asks for help with
writing one in the first place.)

[3] news:874j1yyt0s.fsf@tilde.institute

Subject: Re: web
From: Computer Nerd Kev
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Organization: Ausics - https://newsgroups.ausics.net
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 23:09 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
Message-ID: <678c349b@news.ausics.net>
From: not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Subject: Re: web
Newsgroups: comp.misc
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Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netremove.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-01-16, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>>> In comp.misc Ivan Shmakov wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-01-12, Bozo User wrote:
>
> >>> Once you get a Gopher/Gemini browser, among yt-dlp, the web can go away.
>
> I. e., my point being: you can't escape web by switching to
> Gopher, because Gopher /is/ web. (Even if 'darker' part of it.)
>
> >> While I do appreciate the availability of yt-dlp, I feel like a
> >> huge part of the reason Chromium is huge is so it can support
> >> Youtube. Granted, there doesn't seem to be as many DSAs for video
> >> software (codecs and players), but it's still the kind of software
> >> I'd rather keep at least in a container.
>
> > You fear that a hacker can upload a YouTube video containing
> > an exploit and manage to pass that exploit through YouTube's
> > transcoding in order to attack Linux video player programs?
> > Seems like a big stretch to me.
>
> I'm not familiar with how Youtube processes its videos; I've
> never even uploaded anything there myself, much less looked at
> their sources for security issues that might or might not be
> there.

The files I download from YouTube always contain the metadata
string (in both audio and video streams):
"ISO Media file produced by Google Inc."

But I always use the lowest quality option.

> >> By the by, what's the equivalent of wget(1) for gopher:?
>
> > Curl supports Gopher. Not Gemini though.
>
> Curl is my tool of choice for doing API calls; say (JFTR, [2]
> has a couple of complete examples):
>
> $ curl -iv --form-string comment="New file." \
> -F file=@my.jpeg -F text=\</dev/fd/5 5< my.jpeg.mw \
> --form-string filesize="$(wc -c < my.jpeg)" \
> --form-string token="1337cafe+\\" \
> ... -- https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php\
> "?action=upload&format=xml&assert=user"
>
> [2] http://am-1.org/~ivan/src/examples-2024/webwatch.mk
>
> However, I distinctly recall finding it inadequate as a mirroring
> tool back in the day. (Though that might've changed meanwhile.)

That's true, Curl doesn't do mirroring. Command-line options may
exist, but one I'm aware of is that the Gopherus Gopher client
since version 1.2 has the feature "all files from current folder
can be downloaded by pressing F10". Not comparable to Wget's
recursive mode, but enough for some tasks.

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