Rocksolid Light

News from da outaworlds

mail  files  register  groups  login

Message-ID:  

As to the Adjective: when in doubt, strike it out. -- Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar"


comp / comp.misc / Watcom

SubjectAuthor
* WatcomBen Collver
+* Re: WatcomDave Yeo
|`* Re: WatcomLawrence D'Oliveiro
| `* Re: WatcomAnton Shepelev
|  `- Re: WatcomLawrence D'Oliveiro
`- Re: WatcomLawrence D'Oliveiro

1
Subject: Watcom
From: Ben Collver
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2024 14:37 UTC
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: bencollver@tilde.pink (Ben Collver)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Watcom
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2024 14:37:45 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 99
Message-ID: <slrnv6bfh1.1qj.bencollver@svadhyaya.localdomain>
Injection-Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2024 16:37:45 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="0982cfa40b919c63ae39506cb88bd635";
logging-data="3738909"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18zV64PFVacB2bKefmZhVXLqWcOyjv1jew="
User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:tPXxues2mOHhC5aqY+tHKfSGVgI=
View all headers

WATCOM
======
<https://uwaterloo.ca/computer-museum/sites/default/files/styles/
uw_is_media_x_large/public/uploads/images/watcom.png>

WHAT IS WATCOM?
===============
WATCOM is a set of compilers and tools for developing software in the
Fortran, C, and C++ programming languages. It was originally
developed by the Watcom International Corporation in the 1980s and
1990s.

WATCOM was widely used for developing software for DOS and Windows.
It supported DOS, extended DOS 32-bit, Win16, Win32, and OS/2.

Although their products are discontinued in the 2000s, WATCOM C/C++
compilers are still available under the name of open WATCOM in the
GitHub.

<https://uwaterloo.ca/computer-museum/sites/default/files/styles/
uw_is_media_x_large/public/uploads/images/wesgraham.jpg>

The story of WATCOM begins with a computer scientist at University of
Waterloo, Wes Graham. In 1974, Wes Graham and Ian McPhee founded a
company named Structured Computing Systems. The company soon changed
its name in 1981, to WATCOM Systems Inc. With three full-time
employees, the history of WATCOM began. WATCOM had several subsidiary
companies, but they were all renamed as WATCOM companies for branding
purpose. After 1984, the company named itself WATCOM International Inc.

<https://uwaterloo.ca/computer-museum/sites/default/files/styles/
uw_is_media_x_large/public/uploads/images/memory.png>

The picture above is a screenshot of WATCOM IDE 10.0a version.
Credit to: Gered's Rambling

WATCOM was an efficient c/c++ compiler. In the 90s, the capability of
WATCOM compiler caught 3D game developers' attention. Plus, WATCOM
compiler performed much faster than its competitors, Microsoft and
Borland. Amongst many games that used WATCOM, we will name a few that
you have certainly heard if you like video games: Doom and 3D Realms.
The product was also shipped with popular DOS extender DOS/4GW.

<https://uwaterloo.ca/computer-museum/sites/default/files/styles/
uw_is_media_x_large/public/uploads/images/dooom.jpg>

DOOM

WATCOM's present
================
In the early 2000s, a company named PowerSoft acquired WATCOM. Sybase
then acquired Powersoft. multiple projects succeeding WATCOM products
was planned to be released, but due to branding issue, the projects
were cancelled. WATCOM compilers are now released as open source as
the name of Open WATCOM.

History of WATCOM in short
==========================
* 1979
WATCOM Waterloo BASIC programming language
Between 1978-1979, Waterloo BASIC was developed for IBM Series.

* 1981
The WATCOM International Corporation was founded

The company is officially founded by the computer scientists at the
University of Waterloo, Wes Graham and Ian McPhee, Fred Crigger,
Jack Schueler.

* 1983
WATCOM in production
In the early 1980s the company developed other software tools than
BASIC programming language, including WATCOM APL, GKS, COBOL,
FORTRAN, and Pascal. These products were compatible with commodore
SuperPET.

* 1988
Rise of WATCOM compilers
From the mid 1980s WATCOM started to developed compilers for other
programming languages, including C/C++. The compilers made by
WATCOM was known for its processing speed. Thus, many video games
of that era used WATCOM compiler for their game.

* 1992
The start of WATCOM SQL

The company started to produce database server product, SQL. You
can still look for WATCOM SQL around; it just does not have the
name WATCOM anymore. It is now called SAP SQL Anywhere.

* 1994
WATCOM in history
Powersoft acquired WATCOM. Sybase acquired Powersoft. In the early
2000s, projects succeeding WATCOM products was put on hold due to
business issue. WATCOM compilers are now released as open source as
the name of Open WATCOM. You can download the software from the
GitHub.

From: <https://uwaterloo.ca/computer-museum/blog/watcom>

Subject: Re: Watcom
From: Dave Yeo
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2024 19:02 UTC
References: 1
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!border-4.nntp.ord.giganews.com!border-3.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.netnews.com!s1-1.netnews.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx35.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail
Subject: Re: Watcom
Newsgroups: comp.misc
References: <slrnv6bfh1.1qj.bencollver@svadhyaya.localdomain>
From: dave.r.yeo@gmail.com (Dave Yeo)
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (OS/2; Warp 4.5; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/45.0
SeaMonkey/2.42.9esr
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <slrnv6bfh1.1qj.bencollver@svadhyaya.localdomain>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <b%m9O.447$EHBd.347@fx35.iad>
X-Complaints-To: https://www.astraweb.com/aup
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2024 19:02:31 UTC
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2024 12:02:27 -0700
X-Received-Bytes: 1178
X-Original-Bytes: 1127
View all headers

Ben Collver wrote:
> WATCOM compilers are now released as open source as
> the name of Open WATCOM.

Unluckily, it seems that Sybase did not like the GPL and tried to make
the Sybase OpenWatcom license as GPL unfriendly as they could.
Looking quickly, I see,
....
2.1 You may use, reproduce, display, perform, modify and distribute
Original Code, with or without Modifications, solely for Your internal
research and development and/or Personal Use, provided that in each
instance:
....

Dave

Subject: Re: Watcom
From: Lawrence D'Oliv
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2024 22:26 UTC
References: 1 2
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: Watcom
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2024 22:26:41 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <v45a70$3rcpa$1@dont-email.me>
References: <slrnv6bfh1.1qj.bencollver@svadhyaya.localdomain>
<b%m9O.447$EHBd.347@fx35.iad>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2024 00:26:41 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="1186807d38ad523ecdef8690d71c9c11";
logging-data="4043562"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+YNqtLdV08fPQ0Lq2c4sVm"
User-Agent: Pan/0.158 (Avdiivka; )
Cancel-Lock: sha1:YcfwB2UNShJjvudTeqUYhuRxdXY=
View all headers

On Sun, 9 Jun 2024 12:02:27 -0700, Dave Yeo wrote:

> Ben Collver wrote:
>
>> WATCOM compilers are now released as open source as the name of Open
>> WATCOM.
>
> Unluckily, it seems that Sybase did not like the GPL and tried to make
> the Sybase OpenWatcom license as GPL unfriendly as they could. Looking
> quickly, I see,
> ...
> 2.1 You may use, reproduce, display, perform, modify and distribute
> Original Code, with or without Modifications, solely for Your internal
> research and development and/or Personal Use, provided that in each
> instance:
> ...

That’s not “Open Source”. It doesn’t meet the definition
<https://opensource.org/osd>.

Subject: Re: Watcom
From: Lawrence D'Oliv
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2024 22:27 UTC
References: 1
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: Watcom
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2024 22:27:12 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <v45a80$3rcpa$2@dont-email.me>
References: <slrnv6bfh1.1qj.bencollver@svadhyaya.localdomain>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2024 00:27:13 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="1186807d38ad523ecdef8690d71c9c11";
logging-data="4043562"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/c2inQkowmNOa9i2EeslLT"
User-Agent: Pan/0.158 (Avdiivka; )
Cancel-Lock: sha1:EbhvbsI6D3R4e4azsJSVHffZnoE=
View all headers

On Sun, 9 Jun 2024 14:37:45 -0000 (UTC), Ben Collver wrote:

> multiple projects succeeding WATCOM products
> was planned to be released, but due to branding issue, the projects were
> cancelled.

What does that even mean, “due to branding issue”?

Subject: Re: Watcom
From: Anton Shepelev
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2024 08:49 UTC
References: 1 2 3
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com (Anton Shepelev)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: Watcom
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2024 11:49:03 +0300
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <20240610114903.fa0ea9b42e1efec44d8b4db9@g{oogle}mail.com>
References: <slrnv6bfh1.1qj.bencollver@svadhyaya.localdomain>
<b%m9O.447$EHBd.347@fx35.iad>
<v45a70$3rcpa$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2024 10:49:03 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="83cc0df987fe8d230d561619fa619721";
logging-data="335868"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+wFUZIY1NC6PocEFOun4UcCF0R0l5R8II="
Cancel-Lock: sha1:q7td6qnWR1FHldIfxAR4ra5zkd0=
X-Newsreader: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.30; i686-pc-mingw32)
View all headers

Lawrence D'Oliveiro:

> [Watcom C] is not "Open Source". It doesn't meet the
> definition
> <https://opensource.org/osd>

The term is bad, then. If the source code is publicly
available, it is only logical to consider the software open-
source, as distinct from closed-source, when the source code
is not available to the user.

Please, consider sticking to ASCII when posting in Usenet in
English. Fancy unicode punctuation is not worth the effort
nor the compatibility problems. In the quote above, I have
replaced them with ASCII equivalents.

--
() ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments

Subject: Re: Watcom
From: Lawrence D'Oliv
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2024 03:55 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: Watcom
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2024 03:55:01 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <v48hqk$sc37$5@dont-email.me>
References: <slrnv6bfh1.1qj.bencollver@svadhyaya.localdomain>
<b%m9O.447$EHBd.347@fx35.iad> <v45a70$3rcpa$1@dont-email.me>
<20240610114903.fa0ea9b42e1efec44d8b4db9@g{oogle}mail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2024 05:55:01 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="631f869a34a46d5df9e0635873afdf43";
logging-data="929895"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+EVxUxRVztyDk+78k4NpPw"
User-Agent: Pan/0.158 (Avdiivka; )
Cancel-Lock: sha1:uKmiwxzUQ/eUREri+XM6WMtrVB0=
View all headers

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 11:49:03 +0300, Anton Shepelev wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro:
>
>> [Watcom C] is not "Open Source". It doesn't meet the definition
>> <https://opensource.org/osd>
>
> The term is bad, then. If the source code is publicly available, it is
> only logical to consider the software open-source, as distinct from
> closed-source ...

No, it is not. Open Source is very much designed to promote a “remix
culture”; it is not enough to be able to see the source, you must also be
able to mess around with it, and not just for your own use, but to benefit
others as well.

The Free Software definition from the GNU project is very similar, one
might say it is expressing exactly the same principles, just using
different words.

1

rocksolid light 0.9.8
clearnet tor