On 15/06/24 10:00, AVI GROSS via Python-list wrote:
> I notice that in some recent discussions, we have users who cannot be
> replied to directly as their email addresses are not valid ones, and I
> believe on purpose. Examples in the thread I was going to reply to are:
....

It's an interesting conundrum. There are good reasons and nefarious, for
such behavior.

Some have questioned my behavior in similar regard - asking why I use
initials (also used IRL). It is because my first name "David" is/was
very popular. At a meeting this week there were three of us. Thus,
"David", "Dave", and "dn" was necessary to distinguish between us.

These mailing-lists all run under the Python Code of Conduct.

This also effects a conundrum. Firstly, that someone abusing others (for
example) shall be held responsible. Secondly, that in order to hold
someone responsible, he/she/... must be identifiable.

Personal opinion: if someone is asked a
question/clarification/sample-code, particularly as a response to their
own OP, and does not answer; this is at the least rude, and thus
disrespectful, or at worst grounds for not bothering with them again -
hardly a 'community' attitude!

--
Regards,
=dn

On 15.06.2024 um 10:30 Uhr dn wrote:

> These mailing-lists all run under the Python Code of Conduct.
>
> This also effects a conundrum. Firstly, that someone abusing others
> (for example) shall be held responsible. Secondly, that in order to
> hold someone responsible, he/she/... must be identifiable.

The mailing list has a Usenet gateway

Those users use the Usenet to post.
Check the Injection-Info header for the address of the news server
operator. He can identify the account that posted it.

--
kind regards
Marco

Send spam to 1718440236muell@cartoonies.org

On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 08:02:58 +0200, Marco Moock wrote:

> The mailing list has a Usenet gateway

Not sure why. We don’t care what happens on the mailing list, why do they
care about us?

Thanks, Marco, for explaining.

I, personally, have no interest in finding out who people are in this case.
I simply am thinking that people who do not allow me to easily reply to them
directly, should be ignored by me and not get my cooperation that way.

I do understand reasons people use fake ID but note others have put their
email address in their signature, perhaps slightly disguised as in:

Myname=ereweon.com

Or

myname@unspecified.tb s/unspecified.tb/yahoo.com/

It may be the gateway or other records can find them if they are nasty, but
for now, it is just an observation that it seems the discussions with people
in the email list are more useful to me.

-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list <python-list-bounces+avi.e.gross=gmail.com@python.org> On
Behalf Of Marco Moock via Python-list
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2024 2:03 AM
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: Re: Anonymous email users

On 15.06.2024 um 10:30 Uhr dn wrote:

> These mailing-lists all run under the Python Code of Conduct.
>
> This also effects a conundrum. Firstly, that someone abusing others
> (for example) shall be held responsible. Secondly, that in order to
> hold someone responsible, he/she/... must be identifiable.

The mailing list has a Usenet gateway

Those users use the Usenet to post.
Check the Injection-Info header for the address of the news server
operator. He can identify the account that posted it.

--
kind regards
Marco

Send spam to 1718440236muell@cartoonies.org

--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

AVI GROSS via Python-list schreef op 17/06/2024 om 17:03:
> I simply am thinking that people who do not allow me to easily reply to them
> directly, should be ignored by me and not get my cooperation that way.
FWIW, personally I (mostly) don't see the point of replying to people
personally. To me a public mailing list is much like any public forum,
where my expectation is that conversations happen in public. To me it
always feels weird when I get a personal reply when I make a public post
in a mailing list. I mostly ignore those, unless there's really
something in it that's best kept out of the public. Sometimes people
write long mails with wandering thoughts only loosely related to the
topic at hand directly to me instead of to the whole list. My take is:
if it's not on-topic enough for the list, it's not on-topic enough for
me either. Not that it bothers me *that* much; I just ignore those. It's
very well possible that's just me, and that other people have different
expectations.

But I don't go hiding my email address, that's a whole different kettle.

--
"Let everything happen to you
Beauty and terror
Just keep going
No feeling is final"
-- Rainer Maria Rilke

On 2024-06-17, Roel Schroeven via Python-list <python-list@python.org> wrote:

> FWIW, personally I (mostly) don't see the point of replying to people
> personally. To me a public mailing list is much like any public forum,
> where my expectation is that conversations happen in public. To me it
> always feels weird when I get a personal reply when I make a public post
> in a mailing list. I mostly ignore those, unless there's really
> something in it that's best kept out of the public.

My sentiments exactly. I generally don't even read replies that get
mailed to me. They almost always seem to be copies of replies that
were also posted to the mailing list (which I read using an NNTP
client pointed at news.gmane.io).

--
Grant

It seems clear we have people on mailing lists that see it as a purely
public forum, and that is fine for them.

I have found plenty of times I choose not to continue in public and waste
time for people as in this reply on a topic I raised and now will move away
from.

I have in the past, for example, offered to help people and participate in
aspects of their project that do not need to be viewed here, such as helping
them find out how to adjust their graphical output to better fit their
needs. Or, if someone mentions me negatively, I prefer not always replying
in public to perhaps see if I misunderstood something or was misunderstood.

I have lots of people I "met" in places like this that I keep in touch with
privately and see that as a plus. For those who just want a business-like
experience, no problem. For those who choose levels of anonymity or don't
like being contacted, again, fine for them.

The reality is that I have found people who show up in forums looking almost
legit but actually are not at all who they appear or claim to be even when
they have valid email addresses like MrSpock@gmail.com or even use names of
real people you can search for on the internet but who are not actually the
ones they may even claim.

My message was not to say what people could not do, but to point out they
may be missing out on what some see as collateral opportunities. The people
I have helped privately would not have received it had they only
participated through the group and I would not have received some chances to
learn if I could not ask questions in private that clearly did not fit the
purpose of the group.

So, I am outa this conversation IN PUBLIC. LOL!

-----Original Message-----
From: Python-list <python-list-bounces+avi.e.gross=gmail.com@python.org> On
Behalf Of Grant Edwards via Python-list
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2024 5:08 PM
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: Re: Anonymous email users

On 2024-06-17, Roel Schroeven via Python-list <python-list@python.org>
wrote:

> FWIW, personally I (mostly) don't see the point of replying to people
> personally. To me a public mailing list is much like any public forum,
> where my expectation is that conversations happen in public. To me it
> always feels weird when I get a personal reply when I make a public post
> in a mailing list. I mostly ignore those, unless there's really
> something in it that's best kept out of the public.

My sentiments exactly. I generally don't even read replies that get
mailed to me. They almost always seem to be copies of replies that
were also posted to the mailing list (which I read using an NNTP
client pointed at news.gmane.io).

--
Grant
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

On 18/06/24 05:29, Roel Schroeven via Python-list wrote:
> AVI GROSS via Python-list schreef op 17/06/2024 om 17:03:
>> I simply am thinking that people who do not allow me to easily reply
>> to them
>> directly, should be ignored by me and not get my cooperation that way.
> FWIW, personally I (mostly) don't see the point of replying to people
> personally. To me a public mailing list is much like any public forum,
> where my expectation is that conversations happen in public. To me it
> always feels weird when I get a personal reply when I make a public post
> in a mailing list. I mostly ignore those, unless there's really
> something in it that's best kept out of the public. Sometimes people
> write long mails with wandering thoughts only loosely related to the
> topic at hand directly to me instead of to the whole list. My take is:
> if it's not on-topic enough for the list, it's not on-topic enough for
> me either. Not that it bothers me *that* much; I just ignore those. It's
> very well possible that's just me, and that other people have different
> expectations.

+1

The "public" part is not to embarrass posters, but recognition that
there are likely other people 'out there' (or arriving in-future if they
care to read the archives) experiencing a similar problem. (hence need
for descriptive Subject lines - isn't the most difficult task in
programming 'choosing names'?)

Yes, like @Avi, I have been known to contact folk directly. However,
such for personal purposes - as distinct from the list, and possibly
subjects OT for the list.

When contacted by others off-list, I play it by ear - ignore, personal,
or post response on-list. (some lists/email-clients do seem to prefer
personal replies, even when incoming message is from a list - so easy
accident.)

The Delete-key is your friend!

--
Regards,
=dn

On 6/17/24 17:51, dn via Python-list wrote:

> +1
>
> The "public" part is not to embarrass posters, but recognition that
> there are likely other people 'out there' (or arriving in-future if they
> care to read the archives) experiencing a similar problem. (hence need
> for descriptive Subject lines - isn't the most difficult task in
> programming 'choosing names'?)

well, one of two, along with cache invalidation and off-by-one errors
(according to the wags).

I do agree with this, but mailman (2) archives aren't particularly
useful for searching, as they're organized in monthly chunks and you
have to keep clicking around - this list doesn't have a search engine as
it's not converted to be one of the mailman 3 lists.

There are supposed to be some search engine incantations to make this
better. I find this one works, though I can never actually remember it
and have to go hunting again each time... picking a random-ish subject
line from this list in the past:

site:mail.python.org inurl:Python-list multiplication

I don't know that we publicise such methods (there are probably others).

On 2024-06-18, Mats Wichmann via Python-list <python-list@python.org> wrote:
> On 6/17/24 17:51, dn via Python-list wrote:
>
>> +1
>>
>> The "public" part is not to embarrass posters, but recognition that
>> there are likely other people 'out there' (or arriving in-future if they
>> care to read the archives) experiencing a similar problem. (hence need
>> for descriptive Subject lines - isn't the most difficult task in
>> programming 'choosing names'?)
>
> well, one of two, along with cache invalidation and off-by-one errors
> (according to the wags).
>
> I do agree with this, but mailman (2) archives aren't particularly
> useful for searching, as they're organized in monthly chunks and you
> have to keep clicking around - this list doesn't have a search engine as
> it's not converted to be one of the mailman 3 lists.

Gmane used to have a usable search feature (along with a decent
threaded web UI to read the arhives), but that got lost during the
great gmane server/domain upheaval of 2016 (or whenever that was). I
still miss it.

--
Grant