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comp / comp.lang.python / Re: super().__init__() and bytes

SubjectAuthor
* Re: super().__init__() and bytesRoel Schroeven
`* Re: super().__init__() and bytesGreg Ewing
 `- Re: super().__init__() and bytesRoel Schroeven

1
Subject: Re: super().__init__() and bytes
From: Roel Schroeven
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2024 14:24 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail
From: roel@roelschroeven.net (Roel Schroeven)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Subject: Re: super().__init__() and bytes
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2024 15:24:55 +0100
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Op 3/12/2024 om 13:55 schreef Anders Munch via Python-list:
> Roel Schroeven <roel@roelschroeven.net> wrote:
> > As a follow-up, it looks like this behavior is because bytes and int are immutable.
>
> Yes.
OK.
> > But that doesn't tell me why using super().__init__(<custom arguments>) doesn't work for immutable classes.
>
> bytes.__init__ does work, but it's just an inherited object.__init__, which does nothing, and takes no parameters.
> __init__ cannot change the value of the bytes object; the value is set by bytes.__new__ and cannot change after that.

I see now why __init__, being a regular method, can't change an object's
value (or attributes in general) if that object is immutable. I'm not
sure why I didn't think of that before.

It's not entirely clear to me though how bytes.__new__ *can* set an
object's value. Isn't __new__ also a regular function? Are these
immutable classes special cases in the language that can't be recreated
in the same way with user-defined classes? Not that that's something I
want to do, and it's also not terribly important to me, but I'm trying
to better understand what's going on.
> Best not to define an __init__ method at all, just use __new__.
>
> Something like:
>
> class BytesSubclass(bytes):
> def __new__(cls, whatever, arguments, you, like):
> bytesvalue = compute(whatever, arguments, you, like)
> ob = bytes.__new__(cls, bytesvalue)
> ob.some_other_att = compute_something_else(whatever, arguments, you, like)
> return ob
Thanks, that works perfectly. That's also more important than
understanding all the nitty-gritty details (I feel a basic understanding
is important, but not necessarily always all the low-level details).

--
"There is no cause so noble that it will not attract fuggheads."
-- Larry Niven

Subject: Re: super().__init__() and bytes
From: Greg Ewing
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2024 23:14 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Subject: Re: super().__init__() and bytes
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2024 12:14:17 +1300
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On 4/12/24 3:24 am, Roel Schroeven wrote:
> It's not entirely clear to me though how bytes.__new__ *can* set an
> object's value. Isn't __new__ also a regular function?

Yes, but the __new__ methods of the builtin immutable objects (int,
str, bytes, etc.) are implemented in C, and so are able to do things
that Python methods cannot.

--
Greg

Subject: Re: super().__init__() and bytes
From: Roel Schroeven
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2024 11:38 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
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From: roel@roelschroeven.net (Roel Schroeven)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Subject: Re: super().__init__() and bytes
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Op 4/12/2024 om 0:14 schreef Greg Ewing via Python-list:
> On 4/12/24 3:24 am, Roel Schroeven wrote:
>> It's not entirely clear to me though how bytes.__new__ *can* set an
>> object's value. Isn't __new__ also a regular function?
>
> Yes, but the __new__ methods of the builtin immutable objects (int,
> str, bytes, etc.) are implemented in C, and so are able to do things
> that Python methods cannot.
Aha, yes, that's what I already suspected, but I wasn't sure. Thanks for
confirming that.

All clear now. Thanks to Anders and Greg for explaining this to me.

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