On 1/06/2024 7:47 am, ChristRose wrote:
> ========================
> On Fri, 31 May 2024 12:01:20 -0700,
> Article:<0001HW.2C0A56000008BC9030DEA238F@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Robert wrote:
> ========================
>
> Your subject line is a complete and
> total lie, which will result in people
> thinking they stand and not taking heed,
> lest they fall. The believer has
> positionally died with Christ to sin and
> risen with Him to newness of life

"Positionally."

As opposed to what?

In the Name of Jesus

> (Romans 6), yet is still exhorted to
> yield to the Spirit not the lusts of the
> flesh (cf. Galatians 5), as will be
> shown below. This proves that being set
> free from the obligation to sin does not
> eradicate your sin nature, or guarantee
> sinless perfection in your daily walk.
>
>
>> Rom 7:1-6 (TPT)
>>
>> 1 I write to you, dear brothers and sisters, who are familiar with the law.
>> Don’t you know that when a person dies, it ends his obligation to the law?
>>
>> 2 For example, a married couple is bound by the law to remain together until
>> separated by death. But when one spouse dies, the other is released from the
>> law of the marriage.
>>
>> 3 So then if a wife is joined to another man while still married, she commits
>> adultery. But if her husband dies, she is obviously free from the marriage
>> contract and may marry another man without being charged with adultery.
>>
>> 4 So, my dear brothers and sisters, the same principle applies to your
>> relationship with God. For you died to your first husband, the law, by being
>> co-crucified with the body of the Messiah. So you are now free to
>> “marry” another—the one who was raised from the dead so that you may
>> now bear spiritual fruit for God.
>>
>> 5 When we were merely living natural lives, the law, through defining sin,
>> actually awakened sinful desires within us, which resulted in bearing the
>> fruit of death.
>>
>> 6 But now that we have been fully released from the power of the law, we are
>> dead to what once controlled us. And our lives are no longer motivated by the
>> obsolete way of following the written code, so that now we may serve God by
>> living in the freshness of a new life in the power of the Holy Spirit.
>
>
> idem. That shows we have been set free
> from the obligation to sin by virtue of
> being baptized into Christ's death to
> sin and resurrection to newness of life
> (cf. Romans 6), not that our old nature
> was eradicated, which would contradict
> everything else Romans 7 says:
>
> “For what I am doing, I do not
> understand. For what I will to do, that
> I do not practice; but what I hate, that
> I do. If, then, I do what I will not to
> do, I agree with the law that it is
> good. But now, it is no longer I who do
> it, but sin that dwells in me. For I
> know that in me (that is, in my flesh)
> nothing good dwells; for to will is
> present with me, but how to perform what
> is good I do not find. For the good that
> I will to do, I do not do; but the evil
> I will not to do, that I practice. Now
> if I do what I will not to do, it is no
> longer I who do it, but sin that dwells
> in me. I find then a law, that evil is
> present with me, the one who wills to do
> good. For I delight in the law of God
> according to the inward man. But I see
> another law in my members, warring
> against the law of my mind, and bringing
> me into captivity to the law of sin
> which is in my members. O wretched man
> that I am! Who will deliver me from this
> body of death? I thank God—through Jesus
> Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind
> I myself serve the law of God, but with
> the flesh the law of sin.” (Romans
> 7:15–25, NKJV)
>
> Your view shows only half the story, and
> pits Scripture against Scripture. My
> view shows the harmony of Scripture.
>
>
>> The New Man
>> Heb 8:10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
>> after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind,
>> andwrite them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be
>> to me a people:
>
>
> True, but does not mean believers do not
> also struggle with a sin nature, as is
> abundantly clear from every single book
> in the New Testament:
>
> https://christrose.news/sin-nature
>
>
>
>> Heb 10:16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days,
>> saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will
>> I write them;
>
>
> idem.
>
>
>> No more dominance of sin on BAM
>>
>> Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under
>> the law, but under grace.
>
>
> He cherry-picks what he wants out of
> chapters, then uses it to promote a
> contradiction to what the rest of the
> chapter plainly states:
>
> “Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to
> be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God
> in Christ Jesus our Lord. Therefore do
> not let sin reign in your mortal body,
> that you should obey it in its lusts.
> And do not present your members as
> instruments of unrighteousness to sin,
> but present yourselves to God as being
> alive from the dead, and your members as
> instruments of righteousness to God. For
> sin shall not have dominion over you,
> for you are not under law but under
> grace.” (Romans 6:11–14, NKJV)
>
> Thus, the believer is exhorted to
> "reckon yourselves to be dead" to sin.
> It is our position in Christ, but it has
> to be "reckoned" before it benefits the
> believer in his daily walk. If the old
> nature were actually "GONE", it would
> not be necessary to "reckon" it to be
> gone. It would just be gone and unable
> to influence the believer.
>
> The passage exhorts believers to "not to
> let sin reign in his mortal body or obey
> it's lusts". What a dumb and useless
> statement to make, if the believer had
> no mortal nature to cause him to lust,
> because it was "GONE". Robert confuses
> our position in Christ with our walk on
> earth, to promote a contradiction to the
> plain teachings of Scripture. My view
> shows the harmony in the whole passage.
>
>
>> 2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle
>> of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the
>> living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
>
> idem. That says the believer has a new
> heart, but it does not negate the fact
> the believer also retains a sin nature.
>
> “Do we begin again to commend ourselves?
> Or do we need, as some others, epistles
> of commendation to you or letters of
> commendation from you?” (2 Corinthians
> 3:1, NKJV)
>
> In the larger theme of this segment,
> Paul is correcting the Corinthians for
> their carnal tendency to base someone's
> credibility as a preacher on "letters of
> recommendation" that come from men.
> Thus, every passage Robert selectively
> chooses from, can be shown in its larger
> context to point to the opposite
> conclusion.
>
> “Now these things became our examples,
> to the intent that we should not lust
> after evil things as they also lusted.
> And do not become idolaters as were some
> of them. As it is written, “The people
> sat down to eat and drink, and rose up
> to play.” Nor let us commit sexual
> immorality, as some of them did, and in
> one day twenty-three thousand fell; nor
> let us tempt Christ, as some of them
> also tempted, and were destroyed by
> serpents; nor complain, as some of them
> also complained, and were destroyed by
> the destroyer. Now all these things
> happened to them as examples, and they
> were written for our admonition, upon
> whom the ends of the ages have come.
> Therefore let him who thinks he stands
> take heed lest he fall.” (1 Corinthians
> 10:6–12, NKJV)
>
> Robert actually cites that passage, as
> proof that believers do not struggle
> with a sin nature. What useless and dumb
> instructions to give to someone, if they
> had only a new nature, and no old nature
> that could even tempt them to commit
> lust or idolatry. Robert's selective
> theology implies that he thinks he
> stands, and there's no need to take heed
> lest he fall.
>
>> Galatians 5:22-25(KJV)
>>
>> 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness,
>> goodness, faith,
>>
>> 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
>>
>> 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and
>> lusts.
>>
>> 25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
>
>
> Again, Robert cites a verse which
> exhorts people to "walk in the Spirit",
> then pretends like it isn't even
> possible for a believer to walk in the
> flesh, because the flesh is dead. Yet
> Galatians rebukes them for walking in
> the flesh, and exhorts them to walk in
> the Spirit:
>
> “I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you
> shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
>
> [What? What flesh? Robert just told me
> the flesh was dead and "GONE". If the
> flesh died, how is there still "flesh"
> to promote lust? How is it the Galatians
> were walking in the flesh, and had to be
> told about it?]
>
> For the flesh lusts against the Spirit,
> and the Spirit against the flesh;
>
> [Uh-uh. Robert told me the flesh was
> dead and GONE. What do you mean the
> flesh lusts against the Spirit and the
> Spirit against the flesh?]
>
> and these are contrary to one another,
> so that you do not do the things that
> you wish.
>
> [Nope. Robert said the flesh is dead. It
> poses no threat. It's not even possible
> for me to be tempted by or walk in the
> flesh, because he said the flesh is dead
> and "GONE".]
>
> But if you are led by the Spirit, you
> are not under the law.” (Galatians
> 5:16–18, NKJV)
>
> I can't help but notice the hypocrisy in
> Roberts understanding of the word "if".
> In 1 John 2, Robert argues that the word
> "if" in "if any man sins" means it's
> "unusual" that he would err. Now, when
> it says "if" you are led by the Spirit,
> Robert contends the believer can't yield
> to the flesh, because it died, and could
> only yield to the Spirit. Decide what
> "if" means, Robert <chuckle>. Here's the
> proof:
>
> ========================
> On Fri, 31 May 2024 00:21:24 -0500,
> Article:<77di5j5o2hp1jlhaovi9aj237dfotnevej@christrose.news>,
> ChristRose wrote:
> ========================
> Robert wrote:
>>> If a man sins, infers that it is unusual for that person to err.
>>
>>
>> Let's consider this:
>>
>> In 1 John 2:1, the phrase “And if anyone
>> sins” is translated from the Greek
>> phrase ?a? ??? t?? ?µ??t? (kai ean tis
>> hamartei). To understand whether this
>> "if" implies that sinning is rare or
>> common, we need to examine the Greek
>> words and grammar, as well as the
>> context within the epistle.
>>
>> Greek Words and Grammar
>>
>> The word “if” (???, ean) in Greek is a
>> conditional particle that can be used to
>> introduce a conditional clause. The verb
>> “sins” (?µ??t?, hamartei) is in the
>> aorist subjunctive, indicating a
>> hypothetical situation or potential
>> action. The combination of ean with the
>> subjunctive mood often denotes a
>> third-class condition, which expresses
>> potential action rather than certainty.
>>
>> Context and Larger Context
>>
>> 1 John 2:1 is part of John's broader
>> discussion about sin, righteousness, and
>> the advocacy of Jesus Christ. In the
>> preceding chapter, John emphasizes the
>> reality of sin and the necessity of
>> confession:
>>
>> - “If we say that we have no sin, we
>> deceive ourselves, and the truth is not
>> in us. If we confess our sins, He is
>> faithful and just to forgive us our sins
>> and to cleanse us from all
>> unrighteousness” (1 John 1:8-9, NKJV).
>>
>> John acknowledges that believers do sin,
>> but he also highlights the provision of
>> Jesus Christ as an Advocate. This
>> advocacy is central to the assurance of
>> forgiveness and cleansing.
>>
>> Possible Understandings
>>
>> 1. Sinning as Hypothetical: The use of
>> "if" (ean) combined with the subjunctive
>> verb (hamartei) can suggest a
>> hypothetical scenario, acknowledging the
>> possibility of sin without necessarily
>> commenting on its frequency. It leaves
>> room for the possibility of sin without
>> implying it is either rare or common.
>>
>> 2. Sinning as Potential: The
>> construction can imply potential or
>> occasional sinning, consistent with the
>> understanding that while believers
>> should strive to avoid sin, they may
>> still fall into it.
>>
>> 3. Sinning as Expected: Given the
>> broader context where John talks about
>> the reality of sin in believers' lives
>> (1 John 1:8-10), the conditional "if"
>> can be understood as acknowledging an
>> expected occurrence. John addresses the
>> likelihood of sin and reassures
>> believers of the advocacy and atonement
>> provided by Christ.
>>
>> Most Likely Understanding
>>
>> Considering the broader context of 1
>> John, the most likely understanding of
>> "if anyone sins" is that John
>> acknowledges sin as a potential and
>> expected occurrence in the life of
>> believers. The conditional clause does
>> not imply that sinning is rare; rather,
>> it realistically addresses the fact of
>> sin while emphasizing the provision of
>> Jesus Christ as an Advocate who
>> intercedes for believers.
>>
>> John's aim is pastoral, offering
>> assurance and encouragement to believers
>> who strive to live righteously but may
>> still fall into sin. The advocacy of
>> Jesus Christ provides ongoing support
>> and forgiveness, ensuring that believers
>> can maintain fellowship with God despite
>> their imperfections.
>>
>> In conclusion, the "if" in 1 John 2:1
>> acknowledges the reality and fact of sin
>> in a believer's life without implying it
>> is rare, and emphasizes the continuous
>> advocacy and righteousness of Jesus
>> Christ for those who do sin (1 John 2:1,
>> NKJV).
> ========================
>
>
>> IOW’s there is no “ overpowering struggle” for those who have put there
>> hand in the hand of he who heals the waters.
>
>
> Where did I ever say there was an
> "overpowering" struggle for a believer.
> Nowhere. That's your supplied context
> and straw-man, where you try to impute
> your own twisted meaning to my views
> where no such idea ever existed.
>
> I said the believer struggles with a sin
> nature (e.g. Romans 7b; Galatians 5),
> not that he is obligated to suffer an
> "overpowering struggle" that prevents
> him from ever walking in the Spirit.
>
>
>> The old man is DEAD.
>
>
> We are told to "reckon" ourselves to
> have died in Christ to sin and to have
> risen with Him to newness of life. This
> means that when we count that to be
> true, we _may_ experience victory over
> sin, not that the old man is currently
> GONE from existence and unable to tempt
> the believer to sin.
>
> ...
>
> “Therefore do not let sin reign in your
> mortal body, that you should obey it in
> its lusts. And do not present your
> members as instruments of
> unrighteousness to sin, but present
> yourselves to God as being alive from
> the dead, and your members as
> instruments of righteousness to God.”
> (Romans 6:12–13, NKJV)
>
> "in Christ", we have died to sin and
> been raised to newness of life (Romans
> 6). Yet the very same passage goes on to
> exhort us to "not let sin reign in your
> mortal body, that you should obey it in
> its lust". That means the mortal body
> still has lusts that can be yielded to.
>
> The position in Christ doesn't guarantee
> automatic victory over sin. You still
> have to "reckon" your position in Christ
> to be true, then "yield" your members as
> instruments of righteousness to God, and
> "not let sin reign in your mortal body".
> That means sin is still in your mortal
> body, but you have to yield to the
> spirit, not your mortal lusts. You
> cherry pick parts of passages, then
> propose a contradictory interpretation
> of them. My view shows the harmony of
> the whole passage. Yours pits them
> against each other.
>
>
> --
> Have you heard the good news Christ died
> for our sins (†), and God raised Him
> from the dead?
>
> That Christ died for our sins shows
> we're sinners who deserve the death
> penalty. That God raised Him from the
> dead shows Christ's death satisfied
> God's righteous demands against our sin
> (Romans 3:25; 1 John 2:1-2). This means
> God can now remain just, while forgiving
> you of your sins, and saving you from
> eternal damnation.
>
> https://christrose.news/salvation

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that a sinner could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

What does a fool do? A fool looks for a "nothing" in a "something" in
order to explain the existence of existence.

"Unless you do all because He is who He is, all your religion is in vain."

"Every man is subject to God; He judges every man, and He is reality.
 What a gift in a fallen world!"

"Love MUST be a choice or it is nothing but a law!"

"Why were all men born sinners? So that God could reveal Himself, so
that we would behold the glory of God, and that we should bring forth
the glory of God"

"God does not and will not arbitrate for any man to love Him! If God
isn't everything to you, He is nothing to you where the rubber meets the
road."

"It is the unforgivable sin not to love God with all your heart, soul,
and mind. What do you have that is lasting? It is not so much being
punished; it is what you are left with."

"Love isn't worth anything without first a free will choice for God to
birth it in a man."

"The point of salvation: desperation. Anything less than that is
self-righteousness."

"A sinner is not a believer in God; a sinner is a believer in sin."

"A piece of dirt is not the promised land; that is only a reflection.
The promised land is knowing Me, says the Lord."

"It is all about God or it is all about idolatry."

"The Lord Jesus is coming soon. He has always come soon."

"There is no revolving door of self-worship in a son of God's life!"

"There is no such thing as random!"

"You can't truly love without it being with all your heart."

"No one can see God without their whole heart. Unless you can see God,
you know nothing."

"You can't learn God, God has to reveal Himself to you."

"No sinner is sinless in any way."

"Only God is life; only the Kingdom of God of His "Nature" is life."

"What you believe is just a leaning on your own understanding; faith is
a leaning on the one you have chosen to trust."

"God uses the "letter" to crucify a man and raise him from the dead."

"Not fearing God is sheer stupidity for sinners."

"Self-righteousness is any exclusion of God in your heart, because any
exclusion reveals that you think more about yourself than what you
really are."

"Atheism: "The claim that life received from itself."

"But remember this: always, absolutely always, all the glory is the
Lord's and His alone, and anyone who takes any credit for anything, you
know, instantly, he is not what he pretends to be and is a false prophet."

"That light had to bear (bears all things) the darkness for us, but that
light did not ever become darkness."