On 28/05/2024 6:44 am, % wrote:
> Robert wrote:
>> On May 27, 2024, El Kabong wrote
>> (in article<j2l85j9so6p5qonuv8bgr7aitn95tj40b0@4ax.com>):
>>
>>> Robert wrote:
>>>> On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>> On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
>>>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>>>> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>> Creon <creon@creon.earth>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious notions
>>>>>>>>>>> there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say embracing
>>>>>>>>>>> religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ''
>>>>>>>>>> The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
>>>>>>>>>> directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as
>>>>>>>>>> even on
>>>>>>>>>> Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be
>>>>>>>>>> superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with
>>>>>>>>>> reason, utter
>>>>>>>>>> the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will
>>>>>>>>>> authority. It
>>>>>>>>>> can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim
>>>>>>>>>> obedience. What
>>>>>>>>>> God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of his own; so
>>>>>>>>>> nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on
>>>>>>>>>> reason and
>>>>>>>>>> conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it
>>>>>>>>>> may. One
>>>>>>>>>> chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring natural
>>>>>>>>>> morality and
>>>>>>>>>> natural religion to their original and proper place,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> First you need to know what you are talking about, and understand
>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>> throwing shade.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a bad side
>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>> left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
>>>>>>>> Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
>>>>>>>> Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a place
>>>>>>>> for it.
>>>>>>>> Murder in any form is just as evil.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
>>>>>>>>> will not be freed at the end of six years as the
>>>>>>>>> men are.
>>>>>>>>> Exodus 21:7-11
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of
>>>>>>>> slavery most
>>>>>>>> think of as overblown by evil people. This was a willing
>>>>>>>> indenture, like
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>> you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for a
>>>>>>>> shorter
>>>>>>>> time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer than the
>>>>>>>> years that
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more
>>>>>>>> complicated
>>>>>>>> topic
>>>>>>>> that this brief explanation, and yes, I know that most people do
>>>>>>>> not get
>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>> But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to
>>>>>>>> feed and
>>>>>>>> clothe
>>>>>>>> their families instead of opting to die prematurely of
>>>>>>>> starvation or
>>>>>>>> freeze
>>>>>>>> to death. This was also common in the early days of America
>>>>>>>> regardless
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> race. Even in the biblical times many “slaves” could buy back their
>>>>>>>> freedom from the monies earned for their work. Some never opted
>>>>>>>> out,
>>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>>> to work for their living and get a little spending money on top
>>>>>>>> of all
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> other benefits provided them. Bigots will never understand what
>>>>>>>> I am
>>>>>>>> saying,
>>>>>>>> and they would be the same type of people who would treat their
>>>>>>>> slaves
>>>>>>>> poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh words
>>>>>>>> and bad
>>>>>>>> attitudes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the various
>>>>>> meanings
>>>>>> for the one English word called slavery.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, there aren't "various meanings" for slavery. A slave
>>>>> is a person who is owned by another person, a practice
>>>>> which you obviously condone.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/
>>>>
>>>> https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/modern-slavery/
>>>>
>>>> https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/slavery-uk/
>>>>
>>>> None of this has to do with religions.
>>>
>>> It has everything to do with religion, since you are
>>> defending the bible's acceptance of slavery.
>>>
>>>>>> Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and don’t’s of
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do they dangle in front of you,
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> actual freedoms do you have to keep on being an employee. Think
>>>>>> about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pure hyperbole. False equivalence.
>>>>
>>>> What makes you think so? Too tired to think, or are you just another
>>>> frog in
>>>> a pot of boiling water.
>>>
>>> You're being stupid again, and you know it. Voluntary
>>> employment is not involuntary servitude.
>>
>> It is voluntary servitude. Which is what I have been talking about all
>> along.
>> There is both voluntary and involuntary servitude yet you guys are so
>> bent on
>> your self righteous indignation that you lose all sense of rationale and
>> understanding.
>>
>> The jews who accepted voluntary slaves, would at the time set for the
>> ending
>> of that contractural agreement, if they wanted to stay where they were,
>> because of marrying another slave, would then have their ear places
>> against a
>> doorway, and have the lob pierced with an awl, showing that they were
>> there
>> by choice.
>>
>> None of you people have any economic sense, rationale, or
>> intelligence, in
>> that if you and your family had lost everything, had no food, housing or
>> clothing, would rather sit there and die, then sell your services for
>> a time
>> so as to provide all that stuff so you can get back on your feet. And
>> everyone lives, to regain what was lost.
>>
>> Your spouses, if you have one, and children, are all short changed
>> when they
>> hooked up with you, it you will not take charge and care about their well
>> being when the chips are down.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar paid
>>>>>> football
>>>>>> players who made a point out of their slavery by the white man,
>>>>>> and what
>>>>>> they
>>>>>
>>>>> That's MX-stupid.
>>>>
>>>> Nevertheless it was well stated in the news.
>>>
>>> So what? If every media outlet covers the alleged
>>> players' alleged claims, does that make them right?
>>>
>>> Any NFL player is free to quit in the middle of first
>>> down. There are zillions of kids chomping at the bit to
>>> become NFL "slaves".
>>
>> The same thing goes for your voluntary servitude position. You are a
>> slave to
>> everything that you own which is not fully paid for.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
>>>>>>> it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world?
>>>>>> What about
>>>>>> pimps and their women?
>>>>>> What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the dole?
>>>>>> People
>>>>>> that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What about the countries
>>>>>> controlled by Dictators?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll take that as a "yes slavery is still perfectly
>>>>> justified because political prisoners in Red China are
>>>>> forced to make plastic toys for Happy Meals."
>>>>
>>>> All forms of slavery are NOT justified, never said or intimidated
>>>> that it
>>>> is.
>>>> You just blew your cred's irretrievably also showed an inability to
>>>> reason.
>>>
>>> You defended the bible's acceptance of slavery. So yeah,
>>> you did intimate it's justified.
>>
>> No, that was the knee jerk reaction of everyone here that responded to my
>> statements, they overlooked what I said was bad about some forms of
>> slavery
>> and why other forms are proper. I am not going to back off on my
>> statements
>> just to placate unreasonable people that have no rational or
>> understanding.
>>
>> You think you own yourself? If you are employed, then quit, see what
>> happens
>> to the things you own are are in bondage for.
>>>
>>>
>>> Robert, do you agree that slavery is immoral, and was
>>> always immoral?
>>>
>>> Yes or no.
>>>
>>>>> Did you not read Creon's post about Parker? You are
>>>>> Exhibit A for putting biblical dogma above conscience.
>>>>
>>>> I don’t remember seeing it much less reading it.
>>>
>>> You quoted it above.
>>
>> Look at the dates of his original post and this one. The bottom line
>> is, I do
>> not go by the words of so-called religious men. Theologians, etc.
>> There are
>> plenty of atheists who hold a Dr.’s degree in theology, or a Masters. And
>> none of them know God.
>>>
>>>
>>> Feel silly much?
>>
>> Not at all, especially when I consider the sources who speak out of their
>> irrational agendas, and cannot read with comprehension and are not wise
>> enough to understand anyone who does not parrot their agenda.
>>
>> You would rather die, and your family die, than engage in voluntary
>> servitude. So be it, that is the extent of the rational of all
>> atheists here.
>>>
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>
>>
> i win

Doggone it! I am sick of you winning!

It is all your fault stupid putering keybored screen-on thing newsgroup
stuff!

In the Name of Jesus

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that a sinner could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

What does a fool do? A fool looks for a "nothing" in a "something" in
order to explain the existence of existence.

"Unless you do all because He is who He is, all your religion is in vain."

"Every man is subject to God; He judges every man, and He is reality.
 What a gift in a fallen world!"

"Love MUST be a choice or it is nothing but a law!"

"Why were all men born sinners? So that God could reveal Himself, so
that we would behold the glory of God, and that we should bring forth
the glory of God"

"God does not and will not arbitrate for any man to love Him! If God
isn't everything to you, He is nothing to you where the rubber meets the
road."

"It is the unforgivable sin not to love God with all your heart, soul,
and mind. What do you have that is lasting? It is not so much being
punished; it is what you are left with."

"Love isn't worth anything without first a free will choice for God to
birth it in a man."

"The point of salvation: desperation. Anything less than that is
self-righteousness."

"A sinner is not a believer in God; a sinner is a believer in sin."

"A piece of dirt is not the promised land; that is only a reflection.
The promised land is knowing Me, says the Lord."

"It is all about God or it is all about idolatry."

"The Lord Jesus is coming soon. He has always come soon."

"There is no revolving door of self-worship in a son of God's life!"

"There is no such thing as random!"

"You can't truly love without it being with all your heart."

"No one can see God without their whole heart. Unless you can see God,
you know nothing."

"You can't learn God, God has to reveal Himself to you."

"No sinner is sinless in any way."

"Only God is life; only the Kingdom of God of His "Nature" is life."

"What you believe is just a leaning on your own understanding; faith is
a leaning on the one you have chosen to trust."

"God uses the "letter" to crucify a man and raise him from the dead."

"Not fearing God is sheer stupidity for sinners."

"Self-righteousness is any exclusion of God in your heart, because any
exclusion reveals that you think more about yourself than what you
really are."

"Atheism: "The claim that life received from itself."

"But remember this: always, absolutely always, all the glory is the
Lord's and His alone, and anyone who takes any credit for anything, you
know, instantly, he is not what he pretends to be and is a false prophet."

"That light had to bear (bears all things) the darkness for us, but that
light did not ever become darkness."