On May 27, 2024, El Kabong wrote
(in article<j2l85j9so6p5qonuv8bgr7aitn95tj40b0@4ax.com>):

> Robert wrote:
> > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> > > Robert wrote:
> > > > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> > > > > Robert wrote:
> > > > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
> > > > > > > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious notions
> > > > > > > > > there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say embracing
> > > > > > > > > religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ''
> > > > > > > > The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
> > > > > > > > directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even on
> > > > > > > > Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be
> > > > > > > > superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
> > > > > > > > the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will authority. It
> > > > > > > > can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim obedience. What
> > > > > > > > God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of his own; so
> > > > > > > > nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on reason and
> > > > > > > > conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it may. One
> > > > > > > > chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring natural morality and
> > > > > > > > natural religion to their original and proper place,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First you need to know what you are talking about, and understand
> > > > > > without
> > > > > > throwing shade.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a bad side
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
> > > > > > Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
> > > > > > Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a place for it.
> > > > > > Murder in any form is just as evil.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
> > > > > > > will not be freed at the end of six years as the
> > > > > > > men are.
> > > > > > > Exodus 21:7-11
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of slavery most
> > > > > > think of as overblown by evil people. This was a willing indenture, like
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for a
> > > > > > shorter
> > > > > > time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer than the years that
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more complicated
> > > > > > topic
> > > > > > that this brief explanation, and yes, I know that most people do not get
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > > But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to feed and
> > > > > > clothe
> > > > > > their families instead of opting to die prematurely of starvation or
> > > > > > freeze
> > > > > > to death. This was also common in the early days of America regardless
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > race. Even in the biblical times many “slaves” could buy back their
> > > > > > freedom from the monies earned for their work. Some never opted out,
> > > > > > content
> > > > > > to work for their living and get a little spending money on top of all
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > other benefits provided them. Bigots will never understand what I am
> > > > > > saying,
> > > > > > and they would be the same type of people who would treat their slaves
> > > > > > poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh words and bad
> > > > > > attitudes.
> > > > >
> > > > > So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the various
> > > > meanings
> > > > for the one English word called slavery.
> > >
> > > No, there aren't "various meanings" for slavery. A slave
> > > is a person who is owned by another person, a practice
> > > which you obviously condone.
> >
> > https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/
> >
> > https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/modern-slavery/
> >
> > https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/slavery-uk/
> >
> > None of this has to do with religions.
>
> It has everything to do with religion, since you are
> defending the bible's acceptance of slavery.
>
> > > > Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and don’t’s of
> > > > your
> > > > life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do they dangle in front of you,
> > > > what
> > > > actual freedoms do you have to keep on being an employee. Think about it.
> > >
> > > Pure hyperbole. False equivalence.
> >
> > What makes you think so? Too tired to think, or are you just another frog in
> > a pot of boiling water.
>
> You're being stupid again, and you know it. Voluntary
> employment is not involuntary servitude.

It is voluntary servitude. Which is what I have been talking about all along.
There is both voluntary and involuntary servitude yet you guys are so bent on
your self righteous indignation that you lose all sense of rationale and
understanding.

The jews who accepted voluntary slaves, would at the time set for the ending
of that contractural agreement, if they wanted to stay where they were,
because of marrying another slave, would then have their ear places against a
doorway, and have the lob pierced with an awl, showing that they were there
by choice.

None of you people have any economic sense, rationale, or intelligence, in
that if you and your family had lost everything, had no food, housing or
clothing, would rather sit there and die, then sell your services for a time
so as to provide all that stuff so you can get back on your feet. And
everyone lives, to regain what was lost.

Your spouses, if you have one, and children, are all short changed when they
hooked up with you, it you will not take charge and care about their well
being when the chips are down.
>
>
> > > > A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar paid football
> > > > players who made a point out of their slavery by the white man, and what
> > > > they
> > >
> > > That's MX-stupid.
> >
> > Nevertheless it was well stated in the news.
>
> So what? If every media outlet covers the alleged
> players' alleged claims, does that make them right?
>
> Any NFL player is free to quit in the middle of first
> down. There are zillions of kids chomping at the bit to
> become NFL "slaves".

The same thing goes for your voluntary servitude position. You are a slave to
everything that you own which is not fully paid for.
>
>
> > > > > If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
> > > > > it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
> > > >
> > > > The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world? What about
> > > > pimps and their women?
> > > > What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the dole?
> > > > People
> > > > that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What about the countries
> > > > controlled by Dictators?
> > > >
> > > > My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
> > >
> > > I'll take that as a "yes slavery is still perfectly
> > > justified because political prisoners in Red China are
> > > forced to make plastic toys for Happy Meals."
> >
> > All forms of slavery are NOT justified, never said or intimidated that it
> > is.
> > You just blew your cred's irretrievably also showed an inability to reason.
>
> You defended the bible's acceptance of slavery. So yeah,
> you did intimate it's justified.

No, that was the knee jerk reaction of everyone here that responded to my
statements, they overlooked what I said was bad about some forms of slavery
and why other forms are proper. I am not going to back off on my statements
just to placate unreasonable people that have no rational or understanding.

You think you own yourself? If you are employed, then quit, see what happens
to the things you own are are in bondage for.
>
>
> Robert, do you agree that slavery is immoral, and was
> always immoral?
>
> Yes or no.
>
> > > Did you not read Creon's post about Parker? You are
> > > Exhibit A for putting biblical dogma above conscience.
> >
> > I don’t remember seeing it much less reading it.
>
> You quoted it above.

Look at the dates of his original post and this one. The bottom line is, I do
not go by the words of so-called religious men. Theologians, etc. There are
plenty of atheists who hold a Dr.’s degree in theology, or a Masters. And
none of them know God.
>
>
> Feel silly much?

Not at all, especially when I consider the sources who speak out of their
irrational agendas, and cannot read with comprehension and are not wise
enough to understand anyone who does not parrot their agenda.

You would rather die, and your family die, than engage in voluntary
servitude. So be it, that is the extent of the rational of all atheists here.
>
>
> <snip>