On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote
(in article <lbi7fdFf23cU3@mid.individual.net>):

> On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:41:06 -0700, Robert wrote:
>
> > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> > (in article<hmd75jdlcsh5v6qddb0l4jqct32ohkj4vj@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > Robert wrote:
> > > > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> > > > > Robert wrote:
> > > > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
> > > > > > > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious
> notions
> > > > > > > > > there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say
> embracing
> > > > > > > > > religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ''
> > > > > > > > The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
> > > > > > > > directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as
> even on
> > > > > > > > Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can
> be
> > > > > > > > superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with
> reason, utter
> > > > > > > > the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will
> authority. It
> > > > > > > > can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim
> obedience. What
> > > > > > > > God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of his own;
> so
> > > > > > > > nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on
> reason and
> > > > > > > > conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it
> may. One
> > > > > > > > chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring natural
> morality and
> > > > > > > > natural religion to their original and proper place,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First you need to know what you are talking about, and understand
> without
> > > > > > throwing shade.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a bad side
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
> > > > > > Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
> > > > > > Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a place
> for it.
> > > > > > Murder in any form is just as evil.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
> > > > > > > will not be freed at the end of six years as the
> > > > > > > men are.
> > > > > > > Exodus 21:7-11
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of
> slavery most
> > > > > > think of as overblown by evil people. This was a willing
> indenture, like
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for a
> shorter
> > > > > > time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer than the
> years that
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more
> complicated topic
> > > > > > that this brief explanation, and yes, I know that most people do
> not get
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > > But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to feed
> and
> > > > > > clothe
> > > > > > their families instead of opting to die prematurely of starvation
> or
> > > > > > freeze
> > > > > > to death. This was also common in the early days of America
> regardless of
> > > > > > race. Even in the biblical times many “slaves” could buy back
> their
> > > > > > freedom from the monies earned for their work. Some never opted
> out,
> > > > > > content
> > > > > > to work for their living and get a little spending money on top
> of all the
> > > > > > other benefits provided them. Bigots will never understand what I
> am
> > > > > > saying,
> > > > > > and they would be the same type of people who would treat their
> slaves
> > > > > > poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh words
> and bad
> > > > > > attitudes.
> > > > >
> > > > > So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the various
> meanings
> > > > for the one English word called slavery.
> > >
> > > No, there aren't "various meanings" for slavery. A slave
> > > is a person who is owned by another person, a practice
> > > which you obviously condone.
> >
> > https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/
> >
> > https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/modern-slavery/
> >
> > https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/slavery-uk/
> >
> > None of this has to do with religions.
> >
> > > > Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and don’t’s of
> your
> > > > life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do they dangle in front of you,
> what
> > > > actual freedoms do you have to keep on being an employee. Think about
> it.
> > >
> > > Pure hyperbole. False equivalence.
> >
> > What makes you think so? Too tired to think, or are you just another
> frog in
> > a pot of boiling water.
> > >
> > >
> > > > A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar paid
> football
> > > > players who made a point out of their slavery by the white man, and
> what
> > > > they
> > >
> > > That's MX-stupid.
> >
> > Nevertheless it was well stated in the news.
> > >
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > > If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
> > > > > it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
> > > >
> > > > The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world? What
> about
> > > > pimps and their women?
> > > > What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the dole?
> People
> > > > that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What about the countries
> > > > controlled by Dictators?
> > > >
> > > > My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
> > >
> > > I'll take that as a "yes slavery is still perfectly
> > > justified because political prisoners in Red China are
> > > forced to make plastic toys for Happy Meals."
> >
> > All forms of slavery are NOT justified, never said or intimidated that
> it is.
> > You just blew your cred's irretrievably also showed an inability to
> reason.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Did you not read Creon's post about Parker? You are
> > > Exhibit A for putting biblical dogma above conscience.
> >
> > I don’t remember seeing it much less reading it.
> > Your rationale, as well as his, is based on bias’, if that is your
> > conclusion.
>
> You didn't read my post quoting from Theodore Parker's sermon,
> "The Transient and Permanent in Christianity"?

Nope
>
> Shall I post it again? Even so, any scholar of theology should
> be aware of it, even if they don't agree with it. He was one
> of the guiding lights during the Great Awakening.

I am not a scholar of theology for that is the thinking of men.
>
> Theodore Parker was a staunch abolitionist, who gave refuge in
> his own home to escaped slaves. He argued with Southern preachers
> who used the Bible to justify slavery. Those two paragraphs of his
> outline just why one should not succumb to the error of Biblical
> inerrancy, concluding:
>
> =| Of the scriptures, then, it may be said, as it has been of
> the Sabbath: "The Bible was made for man, not man for
> the Bible." |=

I would agree with that understanding.
>
>
> Why? Because:
>
> =| The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are directly
> from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even on Horeb, or
> Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be superior to these
> instructors. |=
>
> > Would you rather a family starve to death rather than indenture
> > themselves as a slave to survive poor economic times, droughts, etc,?
>
> *That* is your only solution to the problems you outline? _Slavery_?

No, but the question remains.
>
> *That* is disgusting, and you are being absurd.

Not any more than your thinking.

What about all the people in America who show a sign, will work for food or
money, and what about those in the times of the Great Depression who worked
on farms for food and shelter, so their family could eat and had a dry place
to sleep? Was that not servitude to another?

When the economy picked up, then those who stayed would get paid as the
prices for food went up and the farmer earn enough money to pay them so that
they could save up for a better life within a few years.

Are all you guys that societally ignorant? You all act so ignorant or RL.