On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
(in article <XnsB17ED0FB44B1B629555@185.151.15.190>):

> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> news:0001HW.2C0406BF0000606B30EE6438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> > On May 26, 2024, pursent100@gmail.com wrote
> > (in article<rcycnY5V4p1DKc77nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com>):
> >
> > > Robert wrote:
> > > > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> > > > (in article<rn975jdrh5gbuiocad2jv49a7bm978vqm1@4ax.com>):
> > > >
> > > > > Robert wrote:
> > > > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
> > > > > > > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious
> > > > > > > > > notions there's no telling were it will lead. that's why
> > > > > > > > > I say embracing religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ''
> > > > > > > > The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They
> > > > > > > > are directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the
> > > > > > > > heart, as even on Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of
> > > > > > > > transfiguration. Nothing can be superior to these
> > > > > > > > instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
> > > > > > > > the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will
> > > > > > > > authority. It can never contradict these counselors, and
> > > > > > > > yet claim obedience. What God has made cannot be unmade by
> > > > > > > > any power short of his own; so nothing arbitrary or
> > > > > > > > capricious can ever become binding on reason and
> > > > > > > > conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it
> > > > > > > > may. One chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring
> > > > > > > > natural morality and natural religion to their original and
> > > > > > > > proper place,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First you need to know what you are talking about, and
> > > > > > understand without throwing shade.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a
> > > > > > bad side which
> > > > > > left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
> > > > > > Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
> > > > > > Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a
> > > > > > place for it. Murder in any form is just as evil.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
> > > > > > > will not be freed at the end of six years as the
> > > > > > > men are.
> > > > > > > Exodus 21:7-11
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of
> > > > > > slavery most think of as overblown by evil people. This was a
> > > > > > willing indenture, like when
> > > > > > you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for
> > > > > > a shorter time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer
> > > > > > than the years that the
> > > > > > Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more
> > > > > > complicated topic that this brief explanation, and yes, I know
> > > > > > that most people do not get it.
> > > > > > But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to
> > > > > > feed and clothe
> > > > > > their families instead of opting to die prematurely of
> > > > > > starvation or freeze
> > > > > > to death. This was also common in the early days of America
> > > > > > regardless of race. Even in the biblical times many
> > > > > > “slaves” could buy back their freedom from the monies
> > > > > > earned for their work. Some never opted out, content
> > > > > > to work for their living and get a little spending money on top
> > > > > > of all the other benefits provided them. Bigots will never
> > > > > > understand what I am saying,
> > > > > > and they would be the same type of people who would treat their
> > > > > > slaves poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh
> > > > > > words and bad attitudes.
> > > > >
> > > > > So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the various
> > > > meanings for the one English word called slavery.
> > > >
> > > > Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and
> > > > don’t’s of your life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do they
> > > > dangle in front of you, what actual freedoms do you have to keep on
> > > > being an employee. Think about it.
> > > >
> > > > A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar paid
> > > > football players who made a point out of their slavery by the white
> > > > man, and what they
> > > > had to do whether they liked it or not in order to remain on the
> > > > teams they were a part of. To them that was slavery, they
> > > > shouldn’t be required to practice, just show up for the game.
> > > > Many scoffed at the whole idea, especially because of the monies
> > > > they make, their retirement programs as well
> > > > as health care.
> > > >
> > > > Yet they had a point. We all have to give in order to get, in some
> > > > way.
> > > >
> > > > I also had many friends who owned their companies, who felt that
> > > > their employees were their ’slaves’ some actually disrespected
> > > > them, not openly, but did take advantage of them. I never respected
> > > > them, and it was embarrassing to be around them. But that is still
> > > > the way of men in today’s
> > > > world. That is why there were some good owners and bad owners.
> > > > Biblically speaking under the Jewish Covenant, there were
> > > > provisions made for people so as to be able to feed their families,
> > > > fairly and squarely. But those with the
> > > > mindset of harsh slavery practices by evil men put all slavery into
> > > > that one mindset box, which is unfair. A lot of America was made up
> > > > of white slaves and their families, who for the sake of freedom and
> > > > the free ride via ship, into this country gave up 5-10 years of
> > > > their life just to get here, and be able to build their own farms
> > > > and or businesses once released of their obligations.
> > > >
> > > > Would you have denied these people the opportunity to live and not
> > > > die?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
> > > > > it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
> > > >
> > > > The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world?
> > > > What about pimps and their women?
> > > > What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the
> > > > dole? People that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What about
> > > > the countries controlled
> > > > by Dictators?
> > > >
> > > > My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
> > > they can't be , slavery is illegal everywhere
> >
> > Then you deceive yourself. People have been arrested here in the USA,
> > this century for slavery.
>
> You missed the point.
>
> He said slavery is illegal
> everywhere and he is right. The
> fact that it may be practiced
> in isolated places doesn't change
> that.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-that-still-have-
slavery

Enjoy.
>
>
> >
> > https://www.un.org/en/delegate/50-million-people-modern-slavery-un-repo
> > rt
> >
> > This in 2022 the above.
> >
> > https://theconversation.com/fact-check-how-many-people-are-enslaved-in-
> > the- world-today-107078
> >
> > So who has been yanking your chain? ;)
>
> Your claim that there is a
> good side and bad side to slavery
> is just silly.

When you wanted to escape the tyranny in Europe to the freedom of America,
and were too poor to cross the street, in the times of early America you
would far rather sit there and wallow in misery. Some people care and some
don’t. Men in the Philippines served four years in the American Armed
forces during the war and later in order to get American citizenship for them
and to bring their immediate families to America, why did they indenture
themselves knowing the cost could be their life?