On 14/07/2024 4:10 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Jul 2024 10:02:27 -0400, "Scout"
> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:mvs29jd9tp0uh0dkkmssam0s4d4v3mk9nn@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 11:29:18 -0400, "Scout"
>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:3hr09jhr1nob645n6c0qv68fmi915e42k2@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 15:17:14 -0700, "Andrew"
>>>>> <andrew.321.remov@usa.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Vincent Maycock" wrote in message
>>>>>> news:q0709j5rrn8aj7t2d2s44stoo8p2pjj7b0@4ax.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At the very least, the Bible portrays God as being really powerful; so
>>>>>>> we don't necessarily have to even mention the idea of omnipotence
>>>>>>> when investigating all the suffering around us and asking why God
>>>>>>> would allow it, if he existed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The suffering, sorrow, pain and death in this realm are all temporary.
>>>>>
>>>>> What are they doing here at all, temporary or not?
>>>>
>>>> Necessary to growth, development and self dependency.
>>>
>>> Some forms of suffering are. Others most definitely are not.
>>
>> Are they?
>>
>>> Would
>>> you support the abolishment of hospitals and police officers so we can
>>> have more suffering leading to growth, development, and
>>> self-dependency?
>>
>> Would you refuse to allow us to operate because it would increase their
>> suffering?
>
> Let's say that someone is suffering intensely and they really need a
> surgery to ease their pain. Would you refuse to operate on them so
> that they experience growth, development and self dependency that you
> claim all suffering bestows on us?
>
>> Would you refuse to allow police officers to help people even if that meant
>> they might suffer from that aid?
>
> As long as there's a net reduction in suffering, yes. You keep
> ignoring the fact that I'm not saying *all* suffering should be
> removed (although any suffering is a problem for an omnipotent
> omnibenevolent god of the Christian sort -- but that's irrelevant to
> this discussion because you don't believe in that sort of god) -- only
> that *some* suffering serves no purpose and should not be allowed by
> an even moderately powerful and caring entity that exists out there.

You can't make that call. You are not that omnipotent, Vincent.

Which begs the question?

What depth of egocentric delusion would a human being have by placing
themselves in the position of majestic magistrate over all of creation?

1 Cor 4:5  Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come,
who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will
make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have
praise of God.

There is more than you, Vincent.

Believe it, it is the truth.

In the Name of Jesus

>
>> Must be wonderful to have the Godlike powers you seems to assert
>> possessing...
>>
>> Looking back on my life and the suffering I did.. much of it helped me
>> become the better person I am today. Even the suffering that seemed
>> unnecessary, helped me to learn to accept, understand and deal with
>> suffering without being crushed by it.
>
> Would you volunteer to experiment on the beneficial effects of
> suffering by allowing yourself to be brutally beaten to within an inch
> of your life?
>
>> which allowed me to learn from other
>> suffering that might have crushed me without what prior suffering taught me.
>
> That's interesting. I, on the other hand, can't think of any
> suffering that I need to help me from being crushed by future
> suffering.
>
>> So no, to think you know enough to decide what suffering should or shouldn't
>> be allowed, is to deny people the capacity to learn from such suffering so
>> they could stand up under suffering that may come later than you need to
>> stand up under it.
>>
>> Once again, you are attempting to play God,
>
> No, in reality, I reject the idea that we can't reason about God
> because he might be too powerful to understand. I see no evidence
> that reasoning about God is wrong because it's "playing God."
>
>> without even attempting to
>> consider the consequences of your actions.
>
> You introduce consequences of actions as if they're a panacea for all
> suffering, but sometimes those just consequences just don't exist,
> regardless of how you much you appeal to them to support your
> agnosticism.
>
>> You would make a very poor God.
>
> I would make a better god than whatever god you imagine could exist,
> because I would lend a helping hand to someone in need, while huge
> numbers of people die without help from God when they're in need.

--
God is God in all His Being. All the glory is His, for He is all glory.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

"The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence or proof is to be found."

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that a sinner could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

What does a fool do? A fool looks for a "nothing" in a "something" in
order to explain the existence of existence.

"Unless you do all because He is who He is, all your religion is in vain."

"Every man is subject to God; He judges every man, and He is reality.
 What a gift in a fallen world!"

"Love MUST be a choice or it is nothing but a law!"

"Why were all men born sinners? So that God could reveal Himself, so
that we would behold the glory of God, and that we should bring forth
the glory of God"

"God does not and will not arbitrate for any man to love Him! If God
isn't everything to you, He is nothing to you where the rubber meets the
road."

"It is the unforgivable sin not to love God with all your heart, soul,
and mind. What do you have that is lasting? It is not so much being
punished; it is what you are left with."

"Love isn't worth anything without first a free will choice for God to
birth it in a man."

"The point of salvation: desperation. Anything less than that is
self-righteousness."

"A sinner is not a believer in God; a sinner is a believer in sin."

"A piece of dirt is not the promised land; that is only a reflection.
The promised land is knowing Me, says the Lord."

"It is all about God or it is all about idolatry."

"The Lord Jesus is coming soon. He has always come soon."

"There is no revolving door of self-worship in a son of God's life!"

"There is no such thing as random!"

"You can't truly love without it being with all your heart."

"No one can see God without their whole heart. Unless you can see God,
you know nothing."

"You can't learn God, God has to reveal Himself to you."

"No sinner is sinless in any way."

"Only God is life; only the Kingdom of God of His "Nature" is life."

"What you believe is just a leaning on your own understanding; faith is
a leaning on the one you have chosen to trust."

"God uses the "letter" to crucify a man and raise him from the dead."

"Not fearing God is sheer stupidity for sinners."

"Self-righteousness is any exclusion of God in your heart, because any
exclusion reveals that you think more about yourself than what you
really are."

"Atheism: "The claim that life received from itself."

"But remember this: always, absolutely always, all the glory is the
Lord's and His alone, and anyone who takes any credit for anything, you
know, instantly, he is not what he pretends to be and is a false prophet."

"That light had to bear (bears all things) the darkness for us, but that
light did not ever become darkness."

"You must reach beyond the bible that tells you about Him, and into your
daily life to find Him in Person. He's there."

"What is wrong with Christendom? False understanding based on compromise."

"It is not in man to love his enemies. And if he tries, he is walking in
a lie and trying to raise himself up to the level of God."