In article <v6u88b$3ld90$17@dont-email.me>,
me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net says...
>
> "In the Name of Jesus" <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in message
> news:v6sd9j$3764m$5@dont-email.me...
> > On 13/07/2024 1:28 am, Scout wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> "Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:q0709j5rrn8aj7t2d2s44stoo8p2pjj7b0@4ax.com...
> >>> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 13:18:58 -0400, "Scout"
> >>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> "Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>> news:rq109jtkr3flolmv3n7luc2cugdmfc3vt6@4ax.com...
> >>>>> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 09:13:14 -0400, "Scout"
> >>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>> news:h28u8j98e8hm2gq7c61djiqbdeqvb0mbs9@4ax.com...
> >>>>>>> On Wed, 10 Jul 2024 10:08:56 -0400, "Scout"
> >>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> <snip>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Seems like it. It's just a different faith.. I mean they even have
> >>>>>>>> their
> >>>>>>>> own
> >>>>>>>> churches. So either they are lying about their lack of faith or
> >>>>>>>> they are
> >>>>>>>> committing tax evasion and should go to jail.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Even the hardened Kevrob atheist admitted he leaves the door ever
> >>>>>>>>> so
> >>>>>>>>> slightly open, which was honest.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> True, you have to give him that. I tend to be more of an agnostic
> >>>>>>>> type
> >>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>> person. I would acknowledge the possibility of one or more entities
> >>>>>>>> which
> >>>>>>>> would be god like, but currently we have no true evidence of such
> >>>>>>>> being(s).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> We don't currently have any true evidence of the existence of pink
> >>>>>>> garden unicorns. Are you agnostic about their existence?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yep. If you believe in them and it makes you happy, and doesn't harm
> >>>>>> anyone
> >>>>>> else. Go for it.
> >>>>>> After all, in all the Universe there well could be something we might
> >>>>>> call
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>> pink garden unicorn.. or there could not.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> With up to 2 trillion galaxies in the universe that we know of or
> >>>>>> suspect,
> >>>>>> and each galaxy having about 100 Billion stars be galaxy, and if we
> >>>>>> assume
> >>>>>> 1.6 planets per star.. and then if we assume only 0.1% of those are
> >>>>>> habitable, and only 0.1% of those are inhabited.. That leaves a LOT
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>> room
> >>>>>> for a pink garden unicorn to exist or not.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What about the Keebler Elves? Could *they* be lurking in a tree near
> >>>>> you?
> >>>>
> >>>> Lame evasion.
> >>>
> >>> How so?
> >>
> >> Because your line of questioning as already failed.
> >>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> However, if our thoughts about the size of the Universe is anywhere
> >>>>>>>> close
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> being true, and the time that the Universe is thought to have
> >>>>>>>> existed..
> >>>>>>>> there could be entities that are as far above us, as we are above
> >>>>>>>> ants.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Is it possible, in your opinion, to rule out the existence of
> >>>>>>> certain
> >>>>>>> *types* of gods?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Depends on what type you're talking about.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> For example we know there can be no omnipotent omni-
> >>>>>>> benevolent god of the Christian sort out there
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Depends are you talking true omnipotence or something so far in
> >>>>>> advance of
> >>>>>> our civilization at the point of contact to appear so?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Either one.
> >>>>
> >>>> Then I would put it that a civilization advanced enough to easily
> >>>> travel
> >>>> between the stars would appear damn near omnipotent to the people 2000
> >>>> years
> >>>> ago.
> >>>
> >>> True. What's your point?
> >>
> >> That you just agreed with me, thus establishing my point made that you
> >> can't possibly know what you asserted you did above.
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>> Further, from my readings God is not omni-benevolent, in fact in some
> >>>>>> ways
> >>>>>> God seems quite selfish, particularly when it comes worship.
> >>>>>> See Exodus 20:3-5/6 depending on which version you use.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Of course that is somewhat contradicted by claims there are no other
> >>>>>> Gods
> >>>>>> while at the same time declaring there shall be no Gods before him.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So, yea, there is a lot of wiggle room there. I certainly know of no
> >>>>>> claim
> >>>>>> of omnipotence or omni-benevolence from the Biblical God.
> >>>>>> I mean he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for a rather petty reason by a
> >>>>>> few
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>> the people who lived there. Hardly seems omni-benevolent to me.
> >>>>>> I mean consider endless eternal damnation for limited and very finite
> >>>>>> offenses... Does that sound like being omni-benevolent?
> >>>>>> Yes, the Bible is full of such contradictions within itself and
> >>>>>> within
> >>>>>> religions teachings of it.
> >>>>>> Now perhaps in God's view his is both.. but from ours, not so much.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Note:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zf626yc/revision/1
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So you're saying if the Christian god exists, he must be evil?
> >>>>
> >>>> Would depend on your point of view, wouldn't it?
> >>>
> >>> What would prevent God from sharing this rather important information
> >>> with us about human suffering from his point of view?
> >>
> >> Lack of understanding? Knowledge you would never understand it at your
> >> age of development.
> >>
> >> I mean do you explain to a 9 month old baby why you are going to stab
> >> them with a sharp object, or do you do so because you know it's for the
> >> good of the baby?
> >>
> >> I mean you could try to explain it.. but realizing it's futile to do so,
> >> who would bother?
> >>
> >>
> >>>> Even benevolence can seem like utter cruelty to the ill informed and
> >>>> visa
> >>>> verse.
> >>>
> >>> So is this the "best of all possible worlds," in your view?
> >>
> >> Hardly, but it could be better than it might have been otherwise.. See
> >> above about the baby receiving a shot.
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> I
> >>>>> wouldn't quarrel with that -- but since Christians are generally
> >>>>> unwilling to agree with a statement like that, I generally phrase it
> >>>>> as "the Christian god does not exist."
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, first we would have to establish exactly what the term "Christian
> >>>> god"
> >>>> means and exactly how that is supported. In a discussion like that
> >>>> precise
> >>>> and specific meaning would need to be determined and supported. Not
> >>>> just
> >>>> from the view of the people saying it but also what they can support as
> >>>> being directly referenced. I mean it's nice to say God is omnipotent,
> >>>> but
> >>>> did God ever state that and to what if any limits, either inherent or
> >>>> self
> >>>> imposed.
> >>>
> >>> At the very least, the Bible portrays God as being really powerful;
> >>
> >> Agreed and given the civilization at the time, that wouldn't be that hard
> >> to do. Heck we could probably do at least some of that today if we wanted
> >> to.
> >>
> >>> so
> >>> we don't necessarily have to even mention the idea of omnipotence
> >>
> >> Well since we are the ones that asserted omnipotence... it would be our
> >> error.
> >>
> >>> when investigating all the suffering around us and asking why God
> >>> would allow it, if he existed.
> >>
> >> Reference the baby above. Do you crawl on your hands and knees because
> >> otherwise you might have to suffer learning to walk?
> >> Do you refuse to swim because you might suffer some learning how to do
> >> so?
> >>
> >> Nope, if you had your way, we could neither feed ourselves, move
> >> ourselves or even care for ourselves.. the "benevolent god" would have to
> >> care and provide for us every moment of every day, and prevent us from
> >> doing or seeking anything else.
> >>
> >> No, suffering is sometimes necessary to growth. To suggest none should
> >> exist is to deny growth, change, advancement.... which hardly sounds like
> >> something a benevolent God would do.
> >>
> >> Really? You need to try to think these things through for yourself.. as
> >> it is you're just looking like a fool.
> >
> > Vincent has a strong tendency to tweak, twist, and distort in order to try
> > and shift what he believes into an edifice of fact, reality, and truth.
> >
> > There is plain old common sense in your replies. It is actually
> > refreshing. Skeeter's replies are quite often similar.
> >
> > Personally, I am not bothered if a person is atheist, agnostic, or
> > religious; in all cases every day common sense, logic, and truth is most
> > welcome.
>
> Yep, free will means we can have different beliefs. The ONLY thing I tend to
> look for is your ability to support your beliefs even if only because you
> believe in it by faith... and if that's the case, allow others to do the
> same. If you're going to demand proof of their beliefs then you should be
> willing to do the same for yours.
> Indeed, I just had a thought.. maybe, it's not so much what about what your
> faith is, than it is about you having faith. Interesting notion. I will
> have to think on that.
>
>
> In short, generally, don't ask for what you wouldn't provide.
>
> I have had several people tell me that I am a deeply spiritual person,
> because I've at least given the matter serious thought.
> Perhaps, that's all that is really needed...
> To have a faith, to think about it, to question it, to challenge it.. to
> accept it.
> I don't know, maybe I never will, but I do hope there is more...
>

Religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell, spirituality is
for people who have already been there.