On Wed, 1 May 2024, Maximus wrote:

> D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, Maximus wrote:
>>
>>> D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, Maximus wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 21:38:00 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>> <662F2428.72E6@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Starmaker wrote:
>>>>>>>> Atheism is a belief, it's not a science.
>>>>>>> Religious beliefs and Atheism beliefs are both on the same level of
>>>>>>> ...beliefs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Atheist are confident that there is no God, as Religions are confident
>>>>>>> that there is a God.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They are are both on the same level of ...beliefs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not really.  Theists postulate the existence of something
>>>>>> without any supporting evidence for that existence.
>>>>>
>>>>> I disagree. billions of believers and personal testimony is evidence.
>>>>
>>>> That is not scientific proof.
>>>
>>> I never said it was
>>
>> That is kind of what proof means. I don't see any other way proof could
>> have any meaning.
>>
>>>> In order to count as proof, they need to devise a test that proves god.
>>>> No such test has ever been devised that satisfies the rigorous standards
>>>> of science.
>>>>
>>>> If personal testimony would be enough, then you end up with a pantheon of
>>>> gods, pink unicorns, ufos etc. I am sure you can see how foolish this
>>>> position is.
>>>
>>> with any evidence, we must determine credibility. there are currently 2.4
>>> billion christians and almost 2 billion muslims in the world today.
>>> believers in pink unicorns, or other gods, don't even come close.
>>
>> No, I don't consider "voting" proof. If that were the case, then clearly
>> the earth was proven to be flat once, and the sun was proven to circle the
>> earth. I could go on, but you realize of course how absurd equating
>> followers with proof is.
>
> yes, and I don't equate followers with proof

Good!

>>
>>>>
>>>> If you have a scientific proof, let's hear it, and I'm sure that this
>>>> group would be converted.
>>>>
>>>> Now... here's the kicker. Any god that would be possible to prove with
>>>> science, would not be a god, but a component of this world.
>>>>
>>>> So by the very nature of us, the world we live in and our senses, a god
>>>> that is per definition, outside this world, is impossible to prove.
>>>>
>>>> That hasn't stopped people from trying, but that is why you will never
>>>> convince anyone here. I'm sure you know that and that this is just light
>>>> entertainment, but I'll mention it anyway.
>>>>
>>>>>> Atheists
>>>>>> say without supporting evidence there is no reason to accept
>>>>>> the existence of anything.  Including any god.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Using the logic of theists the existence of anything at all
>>>>>> can be supported, including werewolves, trolls, elves,
>>>>>> vampires, dragons, shape changers, and people with super
>>>>>> hero abilities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Absence of proof that something exists does not suggest that
>>>>>> it does exist.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>

D wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, Maximus wrote:
>
>> D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, Maximus wrote:
>>>
>>>> Attila wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 21:38:00 -0700, The Starmaker
>>>>> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>> <662F2428.72E6@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Starmaker wrote:
>>>>>>> Atheism is a belief, it's not a science.
>>>>>> Religious beliefs and Atheism beliefs are both on the same level
>>>>>> of ...beliefs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Atheist are confident that there is no God, as Religions are
>>>>>> confident that there is a God.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They are are both on the same level of ...beliefs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not really.  Theists postulate the existence of something
>>>>> without any supporting evidence for that existence.
>>>>
>>>> I disagree. billions of believers and personal testimony is evidence.
>>>
>>> That is not scientific proof.
>>
>> I never said it was
>
> That is kind of what proof means. I don't see any other way proof
> could have any meaning.
>
>>> In order to count as proof, they need to devise a test that proves
>>> god. No such test has ever been devised that satisfies the rigorous
>>> standards of science.
>>>
>>> If personal testimony would be enough, then you end up with a
>>> pantheon of gods, pink unicorns, ufos etc. I am sure you can see how
>>> foolish this position is.
>>
>> with any evidence, we must determine credibility. there are currently
>> 2.4 billion christians and almost 2 billion muslims in the world
>> today. believers in pink unicorns, or other gods, don't even come close.
>
> No, I don't consider "voting" proof. If that were the case, then
> clearly the earth was proven to be flat once, and the sun was proven
> to circle the earth. I could go on, but you realize of course how
> absurd equating followers with proof is.

yes, and I don't equate followers with proof

>
>>>
>>> If you have a scientific proof, let's hear it, and I'm sure that
>>> this group would be converted.
>>>
>>> Now... here's the kicker. Any god that would be possible to prove
>>> with science, would not be a god, but a component of this world.
>>>
>>> So by the very nature of us, the world we live in and our senses, a
>>> god that is per definition, outside this world, is impossible to prove.
>>>
>>> That hasn't stopped people from trying, but that is why you will
>>> never convince anyone here. I'm sure you know that and that this is
>>> just light entertainment, but I'll mention it anyway.
>>>
>>>>> Atheists
>>>>> say without supporting evidence there is no reason to accept
>>>>> the existence of anything.  Including any god.
>>>>>
>>>>> Using the logic of theists the existence of anything at all
>>>>> can be supported, including werewolves, trolls, elves,
>>>>> vampires, dragons, shape changers, and people with super
>>>>> hero abilities.
>>>>>
>>>>> Absence of proof that something exists does not suggest that
>>>>> it does exist.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>>
>>

--
“Atheism is the birth right of all human, remember that!”- hhyapster 7.4.23

"Christian beliefs fail against reason, facts, and knowledge"

"Religion is not about truth, it's about lifestyle"

"God is a convenient explanation for what man does not understand.
The less that's inexplicable, the less need for a 'God' explanation."

"The problem with theism is that it never remains within
the realm of belief, but invariably proceeds to assertion"