Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
news:0001HW.2C042F300009DAB830EE6438F@news.eternal-september.org:

> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> (in article <XnsB17ED3D33470D629555@185.151.15.190>):
>
>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> news:0001HW.2C03CDBF00083AD330667038F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>> > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > (in article <XnsB17E58E3D7CB4629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> >
>> > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> > > news:0001HW.2C02E95F0026A45830F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>> > >
>> > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > > > (in article <XnsB17DD16CF5DC4629555@185.151.15.160>):
>> > > >
>> > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> > > > > news:0001HW.2C02686F00086C1630F47438F@news.eternal-september.o
>> > > > > rg:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D868A876F629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C024E2C0002443930F47438F@news.eternal-septemb
>> > > > > > > er.o rg:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D5438AEAB8629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Orlando Enrique Fiol<ofiol@verizon.net> wrote in
>> > > > > > > > > news:MPG.40bb0a01b04affd198968f@news.eternal-september
>> > > > > > > > > .org
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > In article<lb53k4Ffj3rU5@mid.individual.net>,
>> > > > > > > > > > creon@creon.earth writes:
>> > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't make any sense. Maybe it made sense to
>> > > > > > > > > > > medievals.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > It's because God loves us that he's given us
>> > > > > > > > > > commandments which, when disobeyed, inevitably
>> > > > > > > > > > cause pain and suffering to everyone involved. An
>> > > > > > > > > > unloving God would have left us to figure out how
>> > > > > > > > > > to live with one another by trial and error, with
>> > > > > > > > > > the strong doing what they can and the weak doing
>> > > > > > > > > > what they must.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Does God Himself obey the Ten Commandments?
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > God as the man Jesus Christ lived and followed ALL the
>> > > > > > > > Law.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > God as God is a mass murderer.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > You use the term ‘murderer’ falsely and you know it.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Why did he kill the first-born
>> > > > > > > children in Egypt? They had done
>> > > > > > > nothing to offend him.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > There is a list of things they had done to offend Him, most
>> > > > > > of which you know from your past studies.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Name them. Name just ONE thing the
>> > > > > first born CHILDREN did to offend God.
>> > > > > And don't for He killed all the first
>> > > > > born animals as well. What had THEY
>> > > > > done to offend your god?
>> > > >
>> > > > They hated their God, they hated the dependents of Abraham and
>> > > > Isaac and enslaved them. IOW they mistreated the Chosen People.
>> > >
>> > > The children - and animals - of Egypt
>> > > "hated their God"?
>> >
>> > The children were taught that just like the children of the
>> > Palestines were and are taught to hate the Hebrew.
>> >
>> > The animals were owned by the families who suffered the same fate,
>> > and all the animals of those who did as Moses instructed lived.
>> > They all had the same choice, whether Egyptian or Hebrew.
>> >
>> > Just like today, you have the same choice as to follow the Lord or
>> > reject him.
>> > >
>> > > Where does the Bible say THAT?
>> >
>> > You have the Bible, look it up.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Why did God kill Er? He had
>> > > > > > > done nothing wrong.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > “And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of
>> > > > > > the LORD; and the LORD slew him.” (Gen 38:7, KJV)
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Bingo. What had Er DONE?
>> > > >
>> > > > Ask God, I just told you the answer. Bingo.
>> > >
>> > > Evasion noted. What had Er actually DONE?
>> >
>> > Does it matter the specific details? Who are you to second Guess
>> > the one who set all things in motion, including you. You who has
>> > the free will to oppose eternal life and select eternal death as
>> > your preferred choice.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > > > The same with his brother.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Why did God kill everyone in
>> > > > > > > Ye Floode? They broke no "godly"
>> > > > > > > rules.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > They were all followers of Satan. Given over to great Evil.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > The Bible doesn't say that.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Don't you read your Bible?
>> > > >
>> > > > Gen 6:5 (AMPC) The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was
>> > > > great in the earth, and that every imagination and intention of
>> > > > all human thinking was only evil continually.
>> > >
>> > > So God killed all humanity for not
>> > > obeying the laws he never gave them. And
>> > > no chsnce of redemption, no option of
>> > > forgiveness.
>> >
>> > The did have a choice,
>>
>> Where did God give them a choice?
>>
>> Cite the Bible passage.
>>
>> > many of Gods people told and warned the others,
>> > they all listened with the exact same interest as you exhibit. Not
>> > just you, but your wife, the others who claim to adhere to the
>> > religion of atheism.
>> >
>> > You studied this too, at one time.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > And as for the "wickedness" of all
>> > > the animals he killed, well, maybe you
>> > > can explain that one as well.
>> >
>> > I already did, years ago.
>>
>> Where did God give the animals a choice?
>>
>> Cite the Bible passage.
>
> Look at my answer to you in regards to that earlier this year, My
> answer remains the same.

You didn't answer it, you dodged
it with your "read the Bible" evasion.

Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
news:0001HW.2C0472E70019B9C730EE6438F@news.eternal-september.org:

> On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote
> (in article <lbid2pFf23cU6@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 20:02:08 -0700, Robert wrote:
>>
>> > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > (in article <XnsB17ED3D33470D629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> >
>> > > Where did God give the animals a choice?
>> > >
>> > > Cite the Bible passage.
>> >
>> > Look at my answer to you in regards to that earlier this year, My
>> > answer remains the same.
>>
>> The answer is:
>>
>> The Noatic flood is clearly a myth about God, because we know that
>> if there is a loving God, He would not kill all the babies and
>> puppies and kittens, etc., in the world. In fact, even suggesting
>> that God would do such a thing is a _slander_ against God.
> Gen 6:5-8 (KJV)
>
> 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and
> that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil
> continually.
>
> 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it
> grieved him at his heart.
>
> 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the
> face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and
> the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
>
> 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD
>

Nothing in there about God giving
mankind (much less the animals) any
choice. Cite the Bible passage for that.

> God said otherwise.
>
> .
>
>>
>> We also know that cramming all the land animals onto a big boat
>> to survive a flood is nothing more than a fantasy.
>
> Then you are scientifically limited in understanding.
>>
>> We also know there is no evidence of a world-wide flood, in any
>> event.
>
> There are sea shells, etc in the tops of the highest mountains.

No sea shells on the top of
Mt Ararat where Ye Ark landed. Why
is that? Was it not flooded?

> The
> half life of the earths gravitational field shows the interruption.

Gravitational fields don't have
half lives.

> And there are numerous other evidences. All of which I have shown in
> this group many many years ago. Plus, I believe the word of God in all
> such matters.

Funny how the Egyptians and Chinese
and Indians lived thru Ye Floode and
didn't even notice it, much less record it.

Do explain.

Maximus <gladiator@colosseum.rome> wrote in
news:lbi8rmFh9mfU1@mid.individual.net:

> Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> news:0001HW.2C02E95F0026A45830F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>> (in article <XnsB17DD16CF5DC4629555@185.151.15.160>):
>>>
>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>> news:0001HW.2C02686F00086C1630F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>
>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D868A876F629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024E2C0002443930F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D5438AEAB8629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Orlando Enrique Fiol<ofiol@verizon.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:MPG.40bb0a01b04affd198968f@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In article<lb53k4Ffj3rU5@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>>>>>> creon@creon.earth writes:
>>>>>>>>>> Doesn't make any sense. Maybe it made sense to medievals.
>>>>>>>>> It's because God loves us that he's given us commandments
>>>>>>>>> which, when disobeyed, inevitably cause pain and suffering
>>>>>>>>> to everyone involved. An unloving God would have left us to
>>>>>>>>> figure out how to live with one another by trial and error,
>>>>>>>>> with the strong doing what they can and the weak doing what
>>>>>>>>> they must.
>>>>>>>> Does God Himself obey the Ten Commandments?
>>>>>>> God as the man Jesus Christ lived and followed ALL the Law.
>>>>>> God as God is a mass murderer.
>>>>> You use the term ‘murderer’ falsely and you know it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why did he kill the first-born
>>>>>> children in Egypt? They had done
>>>>>> nothing to offend him.
>>>>> There is a list of things they had done to offend Him, most of
>>>>> which you know from your past studies.
>>>> Name them. Name just ONE thing the
>>>> first born CHILDREN did to offend God.
>>>> And don't for He killed all the first
>>>> born animals as well. What had THEY
>>>> done to offend your god?
>>> They hated their God, they hated the dependents of Abraham and Isaac
>>> and enslaved them. IOW they mistreated the Chosen People.
>>
>> The children - and animals - of Egypt
>> "hated their God"?
>>
>> Where does the Bible say THAT?

Robert evasion noted.

>>>>>> Why did God kill Er? He had
>>>>>> done nothing wrong.
>>>>> “And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the
>>>>> LORD; and the LORD slew him.” (Gen 38:7, KJV)
>>>> Bingo. What had Er DONE?
>>> Ask God, I just told you the answer. Bingo.
>>
>> Evasion noted. What had Er actually DONE?
>>
>>
>>
>>>>> The same with his brother.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why did God kill everyone in
>>>>>> Ye Floode? They broke no "godly"
>>>>>> rules.
>>>>> They were all followers of Satan. Given over to great Evil.
>>>> The Bible doesn't say that.
>>>>
>>>> Don't you read your Bible?
>>> Gen 6:5 (AMPC) The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in
>>> the earth, and that every imagination and intention of all human
>>> thinking was only evil continually.
>>
>> So God killed all humanity for not
>> obeying the laws he never gave them.
>
> not only that, but supposedly EVERY person on the planet was evil,
> according to the text, which would include children and babies of
> course.
>

If God can just snap his fingers and
and make "wicked" people die why didn't He
do that instead of flooding the whole planet?
The fundies never seem to grasp the "overkill"
problem here.

>> And
>> no chance of redemption, no option of
>> forgiveness.
>
> from the loving and merciful god
>

"But He loves you!"
- George Carlin -

>>
>> And as for the "wickedness" of all
>> the animals he killed, well, maybe you
>> can explain that one as well.

Robert evasion noted.

On Mon, 27 May 2024 19:42:46 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
<michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 27/05/2024 10:29 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 May 2024 09:09:18 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 27/05/2024 4:02 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:45:49 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 26/05/2024 5:01 pm, Maximus wrote:
>>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> er.o rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart with enmity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and eternal life with him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>>>>>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it?
>>>>>>>>>>> None of them.
>>>>>>>>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>>>>>>>>> everything that happens.
>>>>>>>>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>>>>>> Such as........?
>>>>>>> Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>>>>>>>>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>>>>>>> Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
>>>>>>>> and tell us how children dying of cancer
>>>>>>>> are part of a "Divine Plan".
>>>>>>> What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for these
>>>>>>> things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The destroyer/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think you make this stuff up as you go along. you claim God created
>>>>>> everything, now you say Satan created cancer.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is a valid point.
>>>>
>>>> Why would God allow Satan to create cancer?
>>>
>>> Indeed, why did you bring cancer upon yourself?
>>>
>>> Why did you bring about pollution?
>>>
>>> Did you think you weren't going to reap what you sow?
>>
>> Not me, but the innocent children who get struck down with cancer. Are
>> those children "reaping what they sow"?
>
>Everything man does effects his neighbour, one way or another, children
>and adults alike.

I know they do -- but should they, if your god cares for them?

>>> Also, see my reply to that Mitchell Holman fella.
>>
>> So if someone contracts a disease, it's always their fault? Should we
>> abolish hospitals, since it's the patients' own fault that they're in
>> there?
>
>You keep things shallow to satisfy your ignorance, Vincent.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>In the Name of Jesus
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In the Name of Jesus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> but those of us who know
>>>>>> better know diseases are from a biological source, not from beings that
>>>>>> don't exist
>>>>>
>>>>> But that is not a valid point.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because things can't create themselves.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Christ

On May 27, 2024, Maximus wrote
(in article <lbj008FkikiU1@mid.individual.net>):

> Robert wrote:
> > On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote
> > (in article <lbid2pFf23cU6@mid.individual.net>):
> >
> > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 20:02:08 -0700, Robert wrote:
> > >
> > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > (in article <XnsB17ED3D33470D629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > >
> > > > > Where did God give the animals a choice?
> > > > >
> > > > > Cite the Bible passage.
> > > > Look at my answer to you in regards to that earlier this year, My answer
> > > > remains the same.
> > > The answer is:
> > >
> > > The Noatic flood is clearly a myth about God, because we know that
> > > if there is a loving God, He would not kill all the babies and
> > > puppies and kittens, etc., in the world. In fact, even suggesting that
> > > God would do such a thing is a _slander_ against God.
> > Gen 6:5-8 (KJV)
> >
> > 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that
> > every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
> >
> > 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved
> > him at his heart.
>
> pity he couldn't have foreseen that. pity he wasn't omniscient. oops!

It is really sad to see your hatred of God. First you say one thing then when
shown that you spoke without knowledge you changed you tune quickly, yet
again you were wrong. I could show you that too, but your own words defy your
logic. After all Noah was seen by God out of all the millions of people. How
could he be aware of that? How could he be aware of Methuselah dying 25 Years
before the Flood, and that other than Noah he was the only one left who still
believed in God?

How is it that you can have such hatred and yet have interest in a God that
you claim is not real?

How come you and other such like minded individuals waste so much time trying
to place or make yourself superior to God, which is what Satan did. Yes,
Satan, the god of this world. It is he that is your spiritual father, as well
as the others.

Every one of you argues based on hearsay. Not the studying of scripture, nor
any ’scientific’ study proofs to see whether God is real and does operate
according to his word, or does not. Even unto the Jews who hated God he said
this,...

Mal 3:10-15 (KJV)

10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in
mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not
open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall
not be room enough to receive it.

11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy
the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the
time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.

12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome
land, saith the LORD of hosts . 13 Your words have been stout against me,
saith the LORD. Yet ye say, What have we spoken so much against thee?

14 Ye have said, It is vain to serve God: and what profit is it that we have
kept his ordinance, and that we have walked mournfully before the LORD of
hosts?

15 And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set
up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered.

Have any of you got the guts or the integrity to finally prove or disprove
the Almighty God?

>
>
> >
> > 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of
> > the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the
> > air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
> >
> > 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD
> >
> > God said otherwise.
> >
> > > We also know that cramming all the land animals onto a big boat
> > > to survive a flood is nothing more than a fantasy.
> > Then you are scientifically limited in understanding.
>
> bullshit. it's an impossibility. you only say you believe it because you
> have to because it's in the bible. if it wasn't a biblical story you
> wouldn't give it a second thought.
>
> > > We also know there is no evidence of a world-wide flood, in any event.
> > There are sea shells, etc in the tops of the highest mountains. The half
> > life
> > of the earths gravitational field shows the interruption. And there are
> > numerous other evidences. All of which I have shown in this group many many
> > years ago. Plus, I believe the word of God in all such matters.
>
> whoopdedoo! there are various civilizations that never experienced a
> flood. that alone knocks you out of the ball game. it was simply a
> regional flood that grew into the myth of a world wide flood.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth
>
> > >
> > > Bibidolatrous online preachers tie themselves up in knots with
> > > their defenses of biblical inerrancy.
> > For this reason many should go back to the original languages to see what it
> > really says, and then retranslated it into todays English understandings,
> > but
> > far better than that is to listen to the Holy Spirit who will lead those
> > that
> > walk in the spirit of God into truth and understanding, and what could be
> > better than getting the word of God from the source of it all.

On May 27, 2024, Maximus wrote
(in article <lbj0fvFkknkU1@mid.individual.net>):

> Robert wrote:
> > On May 27, 2024, Maximus wrote
> > (in article <lbiqcvFjoekU1@mid.individual.net>):
> >
> > > Robert wrote:
> > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > (in article <XnsB17ED4CF827E7629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > >
> > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > news:0001HW.2C03D34E0009885C30667038F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > (in article <XnsB17E59C916DC5629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Maximus <gladiator@colosseum.rome> wrote in
> > > > > > > news:lbfl7fF5di8U1@mid.individual.net:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Robert wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september
> > > > > > > > > > > > .org:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-septe
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mber.org:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-s
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eptember.o rg:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will be no peace. Satan comes to kill, and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > destroy, filling the heart
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with enmity.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And God does nothing about that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because he hates humanity, could care
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less about humanity, is powerless to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which is it, do you think?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > peace, and eternal life with him.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The question was about Satan.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why does God permit him to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "kill and destroy”?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Man did,
> > > > > > > > > > > > __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > __God is powerless to stop Satan
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > __God doesn't care either way
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Which is it?
> > > > > > > > > > > None of them.
> > > > > > > > > > So God is NOT incontrol of
> > > > > > > > > > everything that happens.
> > > > > > > > > There are other options that you are not aware of.
> > > > > > > > > > So much for the Divine Plan.....
> > > > > > > > > The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
> > > > > > > > > We were given a heads up, 1,000’s of years ago. Yet you fully
> > > > > > > > > ignore it.
> > > > > > > > how unfortunate that God relies on mere mortals such as you to tell
> > > > > > > > us his wishes. he can (supposedly) create a Universe but cannot
> > > > > > > > (for example) patch into our communication systems and send
> > > > > > > > messages directly.
> > > > > > > That is one of the most bizarre
> > > > > > > parts of Christianity.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > God wants to convey a message to
> > > > > > > all mankind, so he has one person
> > > > > > > preach it in a backwater desert
> > > > > > > province and makes no arrangement for
> > > > > > > this message to be even written down
> > > > > > > much less broadcast to the whole world.
> > > > > > The Good News of God was preached and taught and lived by Jesus the
> > > > > > Christ, whose words are recorded in the NT and prophesied of in the
> > > > > > OT.
> > > > > Not one word of Jesus was written down
> > > > > until dacades after his death. Even Plato
> > > > > and Buddha - centuries before Jesus - made
> > > > > arrangements for scribes to record what they
> > > > > said. And the Son of God didn't?
> > > > That is such a dumb statement, I can hardly believe my eyes.
> > > explain why. if there's a God who had a message for mankind so important
> > > that our eternal destiny depended on it, why would what he wanted us to
> > > know not be written precisely ? he did it with the 10 commandments,
> > > according to your belief. why not in Jesus' time? we do not have one
> > > word recorded by Jesus anywhere. (that we know of.) it beggars belief
> > > that the message would be entrusted to hearsay decades after the events.
> > Read a red letter edition of the Bible to see the words of Jesus that was
> > recorded,
>
> they're only words he's reported to have said. nothing written anywhere
> by Jesus.
>
> > however, the red letter editions often miss ALL of what Jesus
> > actually spoke.
>
> how would you know? as I said if Jesus had bothered to write down what
> his message was, what it was god (supposedly) wanted us to know, all
> this discussion and controversy would be avoided. there's no sound why a
> god who had a message for mankind would not do that.

The spirit of God inspired the scriptures. All of them, to man for the
purposes of writing them down, so what’s the difference? If the last will
and testament of you parents were written up by another, for them, as they
designed, would you deny that as well?
>
>
> > And besides that, the words that Jesus spoke were the words
> > His Heavenly Father gave him to speak, and all scripture comes from the
> > Father 1 Tim 3:16 IIRC.
> > >
> > > > > Was His message just not important enough?
> > > that is the most logical conclusion
> > You will have full proof and truth upon your death.
>
> I won't exist after my death, and neither will you, or anyone for that
> matter, and you cannot prove otherwise.

On May 27, 2024, El Kabong wrote
(in article<aoi85jdaepa27ptvr6jdmpb5tokjn59v3o@4ax.com>):

> Robert wrote:
> > On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote
> > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:41:06 -0700, Robert wrote:
> > > > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
>
> <snippety doo-dah>
>
> > > > > Did you not read Creon's post about Parker? You are
> > > > > Exhibit A for putting biblical dogma above conscience.
> > > >
> > > > I don’t remember seeing it much less reading it.
> > > > Your rationale, as well as his, is based on bias’, if that is your
> > > > conclusion.
> > >
> > > You didn't read my post quoting from Theodore Parker's sermon,
> > > "The Transient and Permanent in Christianity"?
> >
> > Nope
>
> That's remarkable, since you quoted part of it just
> upthread.
> Message-ID:
> <0001HW.2C03C5A6000654E430667038F@news.eternal-september.org>

ROTFL, did you check the date of that post. He just told me and included the
links
>
>
> > > Shall I post it again? Even so, any scholar of theology should
> > > be aware of it, even if they don't agree with it. He was one
> > > of the guiding lights during the Great Awakening.
> >
> > I am not a scholar of theology for that is the thinking of men.
>
> Nonsense. You live, breathe, and post theology.

Per your understanding. Theology is of man. Even evil men are theologians.
I have an experiential relationship and thereby knowledge of Him. That is the
reason all your reasoning and logic based on the mindset of this world flows
off from me like water. Yet I am unshaken in my faith and belief.

A living breathing relationship with God, the Creator far exceeds words.
>
>
> > > Theodore Parker was a staunch abolitionist, who gave refuge in
> > > his own home to escaped slaves. He argued with Southern preachers
> > > who used the Bible to justify slavery. Those two paragraphs of his
> > > outline just why one should not succumb to the error of Biblical
> > > inerrancy, concluding:
> > >
> > > =| Of the scriptures, then, it may be said, as it has been of
> > > the Sabbath: "The Bible was made for man, not man for
> > > the Bible." |=
> >
> > I would agree with that understanding.
>
> No you wouldn't. Otherwise you would admit that the
> bible's acceptance of slavery is immoral, and that
> literal acceptance of the Flood myth defies reason.

That only shows your lack of knowledge.
>
>
> > > Why? Because:
> > >
> > > =| The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are directly
> > > from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even on Horeb, or
> > > Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be superior to these
> > > instructors. |=
> > >
> > > > Would you rather a family starve to death rather than indenture
> > > > themselves as a slave to survive poor economic times, droughts, etc,?
> > >
> > > *That* is your only solution to the problems you outline? _Slavery_?
> >
> > No, but the question remains.
> > >
> > > *That* is disgusting, and you are being absurd.
> >
> > Not any more than your thinking.
> >
> > What about all the people in America who show a sign, will work for food or
> > money, and what about those in the times of the Great Depression who worked
> > on farms for food and shelter, so their family could eat and had a dry place
> > to sleep? Was that not servitude to another?
>
> The key elements of slavery are ownership of a human, and
> involuntary servitude. When people refer to "wage
> slavery", that's just a metaphor. It isn't meant
> literally. But you know that, so you are just weaseling.

People often engage in voluntary servitude. Which the Bible also speaks of.

You live because of voluntary servitude, when you are employed.
>
>
> No homeless vet is offering to sell himself for food. You
> are being dishonest to suggest that.

They don’t have to be a vet. Many homeless will carry a sign that states,
Will work ro Food.
Are they dishonest or in need. You are intellectually dishonest.

>
>
> You are on the wrong side, Robert, the side of evil.
> At this point, reasonable people would stop digging.

Yet here you are, digging.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/colin-kaepernick-nfl-combine-slavery-netflix-
series/

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/colin-kaepernick-s-nfl-slavery-comments-
netflix-made-waves-good-ncna1283387

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CpFEInkFHY
2 min

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-nfls-racist-race-norming-is-an-
afterlife-of-slavery/

To these people it is very real, yet everyone here seems to have forgotten
all about it.

>
>
> <snip>

On May 27, 2024, El Kabong wrote
(in article<j2l85j9so6p5qonuv8bgr7aitn95tj40b0@4ax.com>):

> Robert wrote:
> > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> > > Robert wrote:
> > > > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> > > > > Robert wrote:
> > > > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
> > > > > > > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious notions
> > > > > > > > > there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say embracing
> > > > > > > > > religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ''
> > > > > > > > The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
> > > > > > > > directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even on
> > > > > > > > Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be
> > > > > > > > superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
> > > > > > > > the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will authority. It
> > > > > > > > can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim obedience. What
> > > > > > > > God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of his own; so
> > > > > > > > nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on reason and
> > > > > > > > conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it may. One
> > > > > > > > chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring natural morality and
> > > > > > > > natural religion to their original and proper place,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First you need to know what you are talking about, and understand
> > > > > > without
> > > > > > throwing shade.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a bad side
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
> > > > > > Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
> > > > > > Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a place for it.
> > > > > > Murder in any form is just as evil.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
> > > > > > > will not be freed at the end of six years as the
> > > > > > > men are.
> > > > > > > Exodus 21:7-11
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of slavery most
> > > > > > think of as overblown by evil people. This was a willing indenture, like
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for a
> > > > > > shorter
> > > > > > time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer than the years that
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more complicated
> > > > > > topic
> > > > > > that this brief explanation, and yes, I know that most people do not get
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > > But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to feed and
> > > > > > clothe
> > > > > > their families instead of opting to die prematurely of starvation or
> > > > > > freeze
> > > > > > to death. This was also common in the early days of America regardless
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > race. Even in the biblical times many “slaves” could buy back their
> > > > > > freedom from the monies earned for their work. Some never opted out,
> > > > > > content
> > > > > > to work for their living and get a little spending money on top of all
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > other benefits provided them. Bigots will never understand what I am
> > > > > > saying,
> > > > > > and they would be the same type of people who would treat their slaves
> > > > > > poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh words and bad
> > > > > > attitudes.
> > > > >
> > > > > So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the various
> > > > meanings
> > > > for the one English word called slavery.
> > >
> > > No, there aren't "various meanings" for slavery. A slave
> > > is a person who is owned by another person, a practice
> > > which you obviously condone.
> >
> > https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/
> >
> > https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/modern-slavery/
> >
> > https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/slavery-uk/
> >
> > None of this has to do with religions.
>
> It has everything to do with religion, since you are
> defending the bible's acceptance of slavery.
>
> > > > Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and don’t’s of
> > > > your
> > > > life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do they dangle in front of you,
> > > > what
> > > > actual freedoms do you have to keep on being an employee. Think about it.
> > >
> > > Pure hyperbole. False equivalence.
> >
> > What makes you think so? Too tired to think, or are you just another frog in
> > a pot of boiling water.
>
> You're being stupid again, and you know it. Voluntary
> employment is not involuntary servitude.

It is voluntary servitude. Which is what I have been talking about all along.
There is both voluntary and involuntary servitude yet you guys are so bent on
your self righteous indignation that you lose all sense of rationale and
understanding.

The jews who accepted voluntary slaves, would at the time set for the ending
of that contractural agreement, if they wanted to stay where they were,
because of marrying another slave, would then have their ear places against a
doorway, and have the lob pierced with an awl, showing that they were there
by choice.

None of you people have any economic sense, rationale, or intelligence, in
that if you and your family had lost everything, had no food, housing or
clothing, would rather sit there and die, then sell your services for a time
so as to provide all that stuff so you can get back on your feet. And
everyone lives, to regain what was lost.

Your spouses, if you have one, and children, are all short changed when they
hooked up with you, it you will not take charge and care about their well
being when the chips are down.
>
>
> > > > A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar paid football
> > > > players who made a point out of their slavery by the white man, and what
> > > > they
> > >
> > > That's MX-stupid.
> >
> > Nevertheless it was well stated in the news.
>
> So what? If every media outlet covers the alleged
> players' alleged claims, does that make them right?
>
> Any NFL player is free to quit in the middle of first
> down. There are zillions of kids chomping at the bit to
> become NFL "slaves".

The same thing goes for your voluntary servitude position. You are a slave to
everything that you own which is not fully paid for.
>
>
> > > > > If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
> > > > > it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
> > > >
> > > > The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world? What about
> > > > pimps and their women?
> > > > What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the dole?
> > > > People
> > > > that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What about the countries
> > > > controlled by Dictators?
> > > >
> > > > My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
> > >
> > > I'll take that as a "yes slavery is still perfectly
> > > justified because political prisoners in Red China are
> > > forced to make plastic toys for Happy Meals."
> >
> > All forms of slavery are NOT justified, never said or intimidated that it
> > is.
> > You just blew your cred's irretrievably also showed an inability to reason.
>
> You defended the bible's acceptance of slavery. So yeah,
> you did intimate it's justified.

Robert wrote:
> On May 27, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> (in article<j2l85j9so6p5qonuv8bgr7aitn95tj40b0@4ax.com>):
>
>> Robert wrote:
>>> On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>> On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
>>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>>> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>> Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious notions
>>>>>>>>>> there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say embracing
>>>>>>>>>> religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ''
>>>>>>>>> The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
>>>>>>>>> directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even on
>>>>>>>>> Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be
>>>>>>>>> superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
>>>>>>>>> the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will authority. It
>>>>>>>>> can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim obedience. What
>>>>>>>>> God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of his own; so
>>>>>>>>> nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on reason and
>>>>>>>>> conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it may. One
>>>>>>>>> chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring natural morality and
>>>>>>>>> natural religion to their original and proper place,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First you need to know what you are talking about, and understand
>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>> throwing shade.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a bad side
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
>>>>>>> Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
>>>>>>> Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a place for it.
>>>>>>> Murder in any form is just as evil.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
>>>>>>>> will not be freed at the end of six years as the
>>>>>>>> men are.
>>>>>>>> Exodus 21:7-11
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of slavery most
>>>>>>> think of as overblown by evil people. This was a willing indenture, like
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for a
>>>>>>> shorter
>>>>>>> time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer than the years that
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more complicated
>>>>>>> topic
>>>>>>> that this brief explanation, and yes, I know that most people do not get
>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>> But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to feed and
>>>>>>> clothe
>>>>>>> their families instead of opting to die prematurely of starvation or
>>>>>>> freeze
>>>>>>> to death. This was also common in the early days of America regardless
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> race. Even in the biblical times many “slaves” could buy back their
>>>>>>> freedom from the monies earned for their work. Some never opted out,
>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>> to work for their living and get a little spending money on top of all
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> other benefits provided them. Bigots will never understand what I am
>>>>>>> saying,
>>>>>>> and they would be the same type of people who would treat their slaves
>>>>>>> poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh words and bad
>>>>>>> attitudes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the various
>>>>> meanings
>>>>> for the one English word called slavery.
>>>>
>>>> No, there aren't "various meanings" for slavery. A slave
>>>> is a person who is owned by another person, a practice
>>>> which you obviously condone.
>>>
>>> https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/
>>>
>>> https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/modern-slavery/
>>>
>>> https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/slavery-uk/
>>>
>>> None of this has to do with religions.
>>
>> It has everything to do with religion, since you are
>> defending the bible's acceptance of slavery.
>>
>>>>> Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and don’t’s of
>>>>> your
>>>>> life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do they dangle in front of you,
>>>>> what
>>>>> actual freedoms do you have to keep on being an employee. Think about it.
>>>>
>>>> Pure hyperbole. False equivalence.
>>>
>>> What makes you think so? Too tired to think, or are you just another frog in
>>> a pot of boiling water.
>>
>> You're being stupid again, and you know it. Voluntary
>> employment is not involuntary servitude.
>
> It is voluntary servitude. Which is what I have been talking about all along.
> There is both voluntary and involuntary servitude yet you guys are so bent on
> your self righteous indignation that you lose all sense of rationale and
> understanding.
>
> The jews who accepted voluntary slaves, would at the time set for the ending
> of that contractural agreement, if they wanted to stay where they were,
> because of marrying another slave, would then have their ear places against a
> doorway, and have the lob pierced with an awl, showing that they were there
> by choice.
>
> None of you people have any economic sense, rationale, or intelligence, in
> that if you and your family had lost everything, had no food, housing or
> clothing, would rather sit there and die, then sell your services for a time
> so as to provide all that stuff so you can get back on your feet. And
> everyone lives, to regain what was lost.
>
> Your spouses, if you have one, and children, are all short changed when they
> hooked up with you, it you will not take charge and care about their well
> being when the chips are down.
>>
>>
>>>>> A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar paid football
>>>>> players who made a point out of their slavery by the white man, and what
>>>>> they
>>>>
>>>> That's MX-stupid.
>>>
>>> Nevertheless it was well stated in the news.
>>
>> So what? If every media outlet covers the alleged
>> players' alleged claims, does that make them right?
>>
>> Any NFL player is free to quit in the middle of first
>> down. There are zillions of kids chomping at the bit to
>> become NFL "slaves".
>
> The same thing goes for your voluntary servitude position. You are a slave to
> everything that you own which is not fully paid for.
>>
>>
>>>>>> If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
>>>>>> it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
>>>>>
>>>>> The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world? What about
>>>>> pimps and their women?
>>>>> What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the dole?
>>>>> People
>>>>> that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What about the countries
>>>>> controlled by Dictators?
>>>>>
>>>>> My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
>>>>
>>>> I'll take that as a "yes slavery is still perfectly
>>>> justified because political prisoners in Red China are
>>>> forced to make plastic toys for Happy Meals."
>>>
>>> All forms of slavery are NOT justified, never said or intimidated that it
>>> is.
>>> You just blew your cred's irretrievably also showed an inability to reason.
>>
>> You defended the bible's acceptance of slavery. So yeah,
>> you did intimate it's justified.
>
> No, that was the knee jerk reaction of everyone here that responded to my
> statements, they overlooked what I said was bad about some forms of slavery
> and why other forms are proper. I am not going to back off on my statements
> just to placate unreasonable people that have no rational or understanding.
>
> You think you own yourself? If you are employed, then quit, see what happens
> to the things you own are are in bondage for.
>>
>>
>> Robert, do you agree that slavery is immoral, and was
>> always immoral?
>>
>> Yes or no.
>>
>>>> Did you not read Creon's post about Parker? You are
>>>> Exhibit A for putting biblical dogma above conscience.
>>>
>>> I don’t remember seeing it much less reading it.
>>
>> You quoted it above.
>
> Look at the dates of his original post and this one. The bottom line is, I do
> not go by the words of so-called religious men. Theologians, etc. There are
> plenty of atheists who hold a Dr.’s degree in theology, or a Masters. And
> none of them know God.
>>
>>
>> Feel silly much?
>
> Not at all, especially when I consider the sources who speak out of their
> irrational agendas, and cannot read with comprehension and are not wise
> enough to understand anyone who does not parrot their agenda.
>
> You would rather die, and your family die, than engage in voluntary
> servitude. So be it, that is the extent of the rational of all atheists here.
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>
>
i win

On May 27, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
(in article <XnsB17F5465C7D50629555@185.151.15.190>):

> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> news:0001HW.2C042A650008BB5D30EE6438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > (in article <XnsB17ED0FB44B1B629555@185.151.15.190>):
> >
> > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > news:0001HW.2C0406BF0000606B30EE6438F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > >
> > > > On May 26, 2024, pursent100@gmail.com wrote
> > > > (in article<rcycnY5V4p1DKc77nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com>):
> > > >
> > > > > Robert wrote:
> > > > > > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> > > > > > (in article<rn975jdrh5gbuiocad2jv49a7bm978vqm1@4ax.com>):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Robert wrote:
> > > > > > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > if we abandon fact based thought in favor of
> > > > > > > > > > > religious notions there's no telling were it will
> > > > > > > > > > > lead. that's why I say embracing religious ideas is
> > > > > > > > > > > perilous and unwise.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ''
> > > > > > > > > > The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason.
> > > > > > > > > > They are directly from God, God's voice heard plainly
> > > > > > > > > > in the heart, as even on Horeb, or Sinai or the mount
> > > > > > > > > > of transfiguration. Nothing can be superior to these
> > > > > > > > > > instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
> > > > > > > > > > the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will
> > > > > > > > > > authority. It can never contradict these counselors,
> > > > > > > > > > and yet claim obedience. What God has made cannot be
> > > > > > > > > > unmade by any power short of his own; so nothing
> > > > > > > > > > arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on
> > > > > > > > > > reason and conscience, let it be taught on what
> > > > > > > > > > external authority it may. One chief merit of
> > > > > > > > > > Christianity consists in restoring natural morality and
> > > > > > > > > > natural religion to their original and
> > > > > > > > > > proper place,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural
> > > > > > > > > morality"?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > First you need to know what you are talking about, and
> > > > > > > > understand without throwing shade.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is
> > > > > > > > a bad side which
> > > > > > > > left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
> > > > > > > > Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
> > > > > > > > Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a
> > > > > > > > place for it. Murder in any form is just as evil.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
> > > > > > > > > will not be freed at the end of six years as the
> > > > > > > > > men are.
> > > > > > > > > Exodus 21:7-11
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of
> > > > > > > > slavery most think of as overblown by evil people. This was
> > > > > > > > a willing indenture, like when
> > > > > > > > you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be
> > > > > > > > for a shorter time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no
> > > > > > > > longer than the years that the
> > > > > > > > Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more
> > > > > > > > complicated topic that this brief explanation, and yes, I
> > > > > > > > know that most people do not get it.
> > > > > > > > But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order
> > > > > > > > to feed and clothe
> > > > > > > > their families instead of opting to die prematurely of
> > > > > > > > starvation or freeze
> > > > > > > > to death. This was also common in the early days of America
> > > > > > > > regardless of race. Even in the biblical times many
> > > > > > > > “slaves” could buy back their freedom from the monies
> > > > > > > > earned for their work. Some never opted out, content
> > > > > > > > to work for their living and get a little spending money on
> > > > > > > > top of all the other benefits provided them. Bigots will
> > > > > > > > never understand what I am saying,
> > > > > > > > and they would be the same type of people who would treat
> > > > > > > > their slaves poorly and beat them, like they do here with
> > > > > > > > their harsh words and bad attitudes.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the
> > > > > > various meanings for the one English word called slavery.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and
> > > > > > don’t’s of your life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do
> > > > > > they dangle in front of you, what actual freedoms do you have
> > > > > > to keep on being an employee. Think about it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar
> > > > > > paid football players who made a point out of their slavery by
> > > > > > the white man, and what they
> > > > > > had to do whether they liked it or not in order to remain on
> > > > > > the teams they were a part of. To them that was slavery, they
> > > > > > shouldn’t be required to practice, just show up for the game.
> > > > > > Many scoffed at the whole idea, especially because of the
> > > > > > monies they make, their retirement programs as well
> > > > > > as health care.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yet they had a point. We all have to give in order to get, in
> > > > > > some way.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I also had many friends who owned their companies, who felt
> > > > > > that their employees were their ’slaves’ some actually
> > > > > > disrespected them, not openly, but did take advantage of them.
> > > > > > I never respected them, and it was embarrassing to be around
> > > > > > them. But that is still the way of men in today’s
> > > > > > world. That is why there were some good owners and bad owners.
> > > > > > Biblically speaking under the Jewish Covenant, there were
> > > > > > provisions made for people so as to be able to feed their
> > > > > > families, fairly and squarely. But those with the
> > > > > > mindset of harsh slavery practices by evil men put all slavery
> > > > > > into that one mindset box, which is unfair. A lot of America
> > > > > > was made up of white slaves and their families, who for the
> > > > > > sake of freedom and the free ride via ship, into this country
> > > > > > gave up 5-10 years of their life just to get here, and be able
> > > > > > to build their own farms and or businesses once released of
> > > > > > their obligations.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Would you have denied these people the opportunity to live and
> > > > > > not die?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
> > > > > > > it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world?
> > > > > > What about pimps and their women?
> > > > > > What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the
> > > > > > dole? People that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What
> > > > > > about the countries controlled
> > > > > > by Dictators?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
> > > > > they can't be , slavery is illegal everywhere
> > > >
> > > > Then you deceive yourself. People have been arrested here in the
> > > > USA, this century for slavery.
> > >
> > > You missed the point.
> > >
> > > He said slavery is illegal
> > > everywhere and he is right. The
> > > fact that it may be practiced
> > > in isolated places doesn't change
> > > that.
> >
> > https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-that-still
> > -have- slavery
> >
> > Enjoy.
>
> From your own source:
>
> "Mauritania, which lies in the western region
> of the continent of Africa, was the last
> country to abolish slavery."
>
> https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/last-country-to-
> abolish-slavery

Robert wrote:
> On May 27, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> (in article <XnsB17F5465C7D50629555@185.151.15.190>):
>
>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> news:0001HW.2C042A650008BB5D30EE6438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>> (in article <XnsB17ED0FB44B1B629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>
>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>> news:0001HW.2C0406BF0000606B30EE6438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>
>>>>> On May 26, 2024, pursent100@gmail.com wrote
>>>>> (in article<rcycnY5V4p1DKc77nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>>> On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
>>>>>>> (in article<rn975jdrh5gbuiocad2jv49a7bm978vqm1@4ax.com>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> if we abandon fact based thought in favor of
>>>>>>>>>>>> religious notions there's no telling were it will
>>>>>>>>>>>> lead. that's why I say embracing religious ideas is
>>>>>>>>>>>> perilous and unwise.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ''
>>>>>>>>>>> The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason.
>>>>>>>>>>> They are directly from God, God's voice heard plainly
>>>>>>>>>>> in the heart, as even on Horeb, or Sinai or the mount
>>>>>>>>>>> of transfiguration. Nothing can be superior to these
>>>>>>>>>>> instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
>>>>>>>>>>> the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will
>>>>>>>>>>> authority. It can never contradict these counselors,
>>>>>>>>>>> and yet claim obedience. What God has made cannot be
>>>>>>>>>>> unmade by any power short of his own; so nothing
>>>>>>>>>>> arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on
>>>>>>>>>>> reason and conscience, let it be taught on what
>>>>>>>>>>> external authority it may. One chief merit of
>>>>>>>>>>> Christianity consists in restoring natural morality and
>>>>>>>>>>> natural religion to their original and
>>>>>>>>>>> proper place,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural
>>>>>>>>>> morality"?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> First you need to know what you are talking about, and
>>>>>>>>> understand without throwing shade.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is
>>>>>>>>> a bad side which
>>>>>>>>> left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
>>>>>>>>> Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
>>>>>>>>> Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a
>>>>>>>>> place for it. Murder in any form is just as evil.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
>>>>>>>>>> will not be freed at the end of six years as the
>>>>>>>>>> men are.
>>>>>>>>>> Exodus 21:7-11
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of
>>>>>>>>> slavery most think of as overblown by evil people. This was
>>>>>>>>> a willing indenture, like when
>>>>>>>>> you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be
>>>>>>>>> for a shorter time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no
>>>>>>>>> longer than the years that the
>>>>>>>>> Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more
>>>>>>>>> complicated topic that this brief explanation, and yes, I
>>>>>>>>> know that most people do not get it.
>>>>>>>>> But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order
>>>>>>>>> to feed and clothe
>>>>>>>>> their families instead of opting to die prematurely of
>>>>>>>>> starvation or freeze
>>>>>>>>> to death. This was also common in the early days of America
>>>>>>>>> regardless of race. Even in the biblical times many
>>>>>>>>> “slaves” could buy back their freedom from the monies
>>>>>>>>> earned for their work. Some never opted out, content
>>>>>>>>> to work for their living and get a little spending money on
>>>>>>>>> top of all the other benefits provided them. Bigots will
>>>>>>>>> never understand what I am saying,
>>>>>>>>> and they would be the same type of people who would treat
>>>>>>>>> their slaves poorly and beat them, like they do here with
>>>>>>>>> their harsh words and bad attitudes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the
>>>>>>> various meanings for the one English word called slavery.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and
>>>>>>> don’t’s of your life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do
>>>>>>> they dangle in front of you, what actual freedoms do you have
>>>>>>> to keep on being an employee. Think about it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar
>>>>>>> paid football players who made a point out of their slavery by
>>>>>>> the white man, and what they
>>>>>>> had to do whether they liked it or not in order to remain on
>>>>>>> the teams they were a part of. To them that was slavery, they
>>>>>>> shouldn’t be required to practice, just show up for the game.
>>>>>>> Many scoffed at the whole idea, especially because of the
>>>>>>> monies they make, their retirement programs as well
>>>>>>> as health care.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yet they had a point. We all have to give in order to get, in
>>>>>>> some way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I also had many friends who owned their companies, who felt
>>>>>>> that their employees were their ’slaves’ some actually
>>>>>>> disrespected them, not openly, but did take advantage of them.
>>>>>>> I never respected them, and it was embarrassing to be around
>>>>>>> them. But that is still the way of men in today’s
>>>>>>> world. That is why there were some good owners and bad owners.
>>>>>>> Biblically speaking under the Jewish Covenant, there were
>>>>>>> provisions made for people so as to be able to feed their
>>>>>>> families, fairly and squarely. But those with the
>>>>>>> mindset of harsh slavery practices by evil men put all slavery
>>>>>>> into that one mindset box, which is unfair. A lot of America
>>>>>>> was made up of white slaves and their families, who for the
>>>>>>> sake of freedom and the free ride via ship, into this country
>>>>>>> gave up 5-10 years of their life just to get here, and be able
>>>>>>> to build their own farms and or businesses once released of
>>>>>>> their obligations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would you have denied these people the opportunity to live and
>>>>>>> not die?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
>>>>>>>> it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world?
>>>>>>> What about pimps and their women?
>>>>>>> What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the
>>>>>>> dole? People that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What
>>>>>>> about the countries controlled
>>>>>>> by Dictators?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
>>>>>> they can't be , slavery is illegal everywhere
>>>>>
>>>>> Then you deceive yourself. People have been arrested here in the
>>>>> USA, this century for slavery.
>>>>
>>>> You missed the point.
>>>>
>>>> He said slavery is illegal
>>>> everywhere and he is right. The
>>>> fact that it may be practiced
>>>> in isolated places doesn't change
>>>> that.
>>>
>>> https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-that-still
>>> -have- slavery
>>>
>>> Enjoy.
>>
>> From your own source:
>>
>> "Mauritania, which lies in the western region
>> of the continent of Africa, was the last
>> country to abolish slavery."
>>
>> https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/last-country-to-
>> abolish-slavery
>
> Yes it stated that they were the last one to do it, but did not say there
> were no countries left that practiced it.
> So were you ignorant or intentionally deceitful when the very next paragraph
> said this...
>
> Where Is Slavery Still Active?
>
> Even in the twenty-first century, there are countries in the world that still
> have slaves. Even if these countries do not necessarily explicitly
> acknowledge the fact they have slaves, there are people in the country who do
> not have any rights and are treated as property. For example, India is
> believed to have more than eight million slaves living within its borders.
> China also has close to four million slaves, and they are constantly fending
> off accusations of human rights violations. North Korea is a very cloistered
> country where people do not have a lot of rights, and it is widely believed
> that there are a few million slaves living in North Korea as well.
>
> This is why NO ONE should trust anything you say.
>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.un.org/en/delegate/50-million-people-modern-slavery-un-r
>>>>> epo rt
>>>>>
>>>>> This in 2022 the above.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://theconversation.com/fact-check-how-many-people-are-enslaved-
>>>>> in- the- world-today-107078
>>>>>
>>>>> So who has been yanking your chain? ;)
>>>>
>>>> Your claim that there is a
>>>> good side and bad side to slavery
>>>> is just silly.
>>>
>>> When you wanted to escape the tyranny in Europe to the freedom of
>>> America, and were too poor to cross the street, in the times of early
>>> America you would far rather sit there and wallow in misery. Some
>>> people care and some don’t. Men in the Philippines served four years
>>> in the American Armed forces during the war and later in order to get
>>> American citizenship for them and to bring their immediate families to
>>> America, why did they indenture themselves knowing the cost could be
>>> their life?
>
>
i'm not going to tell you what to say anymore

On Mon, 27 May 2024 00:51:03 -0700, Robert wrote:

> On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote (in article
> <lbid2pFf23cU6@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 20:02:08 -0700, Robert wrote:
>>
>> > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote (in article
>> > <XnsB17ED3D33470D629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> >
>> > > Where did God give the animals a choice?
>> > >
>> > > Cite the Bible passage.
>> >
>> > Look at my answer to you in regards to that earlier this year, My
>> > answer remains the same.
>>
>> The answer is:
>>
>> The Noatic flood is clearly a myth about God, because we know that if
>> there is a loving God, He would not kill all the babies and puppies and
>> kittens, etc., in the world. In fact, even suggesting that God would do
>> such a thing is a _slander_ against God.
> Gen 6:5-8 (KJV)
>
> 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and
> that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil
> continually.
>
> 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it
> grieved him at his heart.
>
> 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the
> face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the
> fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
>
> 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD
>
> God said otherwise.

Here is the point where I abandon Robert to his
Bible extremism. The only reason to answer him now
is pedagogical, for the edification of onlookers.

I just made the point that God did _not_ cause a global
flood, because we _know_, through conscience and reason,
that a real loving God would do no such thing,
drowning innocent babies and kittens and puppies.

The fact that Robert doubles-down on such absurdities
only shows how far Robert will go to _slander_ God.

>> We also know that cramming all the land animals onto a big boat to
>> survive a flood is nothing more than a fantasy.
>
> Then you are scientifically limited in understanding.

Bullshit. Robert's ad-hominem argument is a logical fallacy,
and he has now abandoned any logic he might have had.

I've looked, and it appears Robert has a device of denying human
knowledge with this logical fallacy.

>> We also know there is no evidence of a world-wide flood, in any event.
>
> There are sea shells, etc in the tops of the highest mountains.

Some of them, yes -- after being uplifted. For example, two techtonic
plates are cramming into each other, uplifting the tallest mountain
range in the world: the Himalayas.

> The half life of the earths gravitational field shows the interruption.

Balderdash. There is no "half life of the earths [sic] gravitation
field".

> And there are numerous other evidences.

Such as? You're batting .000 so far, maybe you should visit the newsgroup
talk.origins and tell us there about your global flood imaginings.

> All of which I have shown in this group
> many many years ago.

I never saw any such thing. Do you have _any_ references for your
suppositions? Even a Message-ID to an article where you list your
references would be more welcome than such hand-waving.

> Plus, I believe the word of God in all such
> matters.

I strongly doubt you even know what "word of God" means.

>> Bibidolatrous online preachers tie themselves up in knots with their
>> defenses of biblical inerrancy.
>
> For this reason many should go back to the original languages to see
> what it really says, and then retranslated it into todays English
> understandings, but far better than that is to listen to the Holy Spirit
> who will lead those that walk in the spirit of God into truth and
> understanding, and what could be better than getting the word of God
> from the source of it all.

Robert doesn't seem to understand that conscience and reason are
God-given, and wholly consistent with one's connection to the Holy Spirit.
Unfortunately, Robert idolizes the Bible, so he is led astray by John 1:1,
in which Christianity gets the Logos wrong. c. 500BCE, Heraclitus wrote
about the Logos, the Divine Order. That, too, is God-given, and
the cosmic organizing principle that (for example) ultimately
caused people to grow from single cells into persons.

--
-c

On Mon, 27 May 2024 00:57:15 -0700, Robert wrote:

> On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote (in article
> <lbie4pFf23cU7@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 20:24:59 -0700, Robert wrote:
>>
>> > On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote (in article
>> > <lbi8q3Ff23cU5@mid.individual.net>):
>> >
>> > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 18:39:06 -0700, % wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Creon wrote:
>> > > > > > Indeed, why did you bring cancer upon yourself?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > That's not what the Bible says.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Deuteronomy 28
>> > > > >
>> > > > > 27 The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with
>> > > > > the emerods,
>> > > > > and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be
>> > > > > healed.
>> > > > > 28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and
>> > > > > astonishment of heart:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ...and so forth.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > (Of course, God wouldn't actually do that -- it's just the
>> > > > > evolutionary mechanism in nature.)
>> > > > wasn't that written 2,000 years agi
>> > >
>> > > More than that -- Deuteronomy was written in pieces dating several
>> > > hundred years BCE.
>> >
>> > Incorrect.
>>
>> Yes, you are.
>
> Nope.
>>
>> But maybe I'm being too hasty. Let's see your thesis. I'm very curious
>> why you think you know better than the established scholars.
>
> O have no thesis on this or any topic of the Lord.
>
> Date and Place: Written about 1645 B.C. in the plains of Moab by Jordan
> near Jericho, just before the entrance into Canaan (Deu 1:5; Deu
> 34:1-12).
>
> Author: Moses, the lawgiver and leader of Israel.
>
> 2024 -1645 = 3669 years ago.

And Robert has nothing to back up his claim. Modern scholarship
has a much better idea when the parts of Deuteronomy were written.
>> "...most scholars have accepted that this portion [ the earliest -c ]
>> of the book was composed in Jerusalem in the 7th century BC in the
>> context of religious reforms advanced by King Hezekiah (reigned c.
>> 716–687 BC),[19]
>> [20]."[. . .]

Just so.

>>
>> [19] Miller, James Maxwell; Hayes, John Haralson (1986). A History of
>> Ancient Israel and Judah. Philadelphia: The Westminster Press. ISBN
>> 978-0-664-21262-9.
>>
>> [20] https://www.google.com/books/edition/Deuteronomy/ATDWInu5VCwC?
>> hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PR7&printsec=frontcover
>>
>> I thought you knew your Bible? Maybe you should learn more about it. At
>> that last link, you can go read an actual scholarly dissection of
>> Deuteronomy. (Isn't the Net wonderful?)
>
> God is far better.

It's not "God", Robert, that you're following.

So Robert is a Bible extremist and idolizes the Bible.
I have started a new thread on this error. Consider this
a "godly rebuke"!

--
-c

Creon wrote:
> On Mon, 27 May 2024 00:51:03 -0700, Robert wrote:
>
>> On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote (in article
>> <lbid2pFf23cU6@mid.individual.net>):
>>
>>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 20:02:08 -0700, Robert wrote:
>>>
>>>> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote (in article
>>>> <XnsB17ED3D33470D629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>
>>>>> Where did God give the animals a choice?
>>>>>
>>>>> Cite the Bible passage.
>>>>
>>>> Look at my answer to you in regards to that earlier this year, My
>>>> answer remains the same.
>>>
>>> The answer is:
>>>
>>> The Noatic flood is clearly a myth about God, because we know that if
>>> there is a loving God, He would not kill all the babies and puppies and
>>> kittens, etc., in the world. In fact, even suggesting that God would do
>>> such a thing is a _slander_ against God.
>> Gen 6:5-8 (KJV)
>>
>> 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and
>> that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil
>> continually.
>>
>> 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it
>> grieved him at his heart.
>>
>> 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the
>> face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the
>> fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
>>
>> 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD
>>
>> God said otherwise.
>
> Here is the point where I abandon Robert to his
> Bible extremism. The only reason to answer him now
> is pedagogical, for the edification of onlookers.
>
> I just made the point that God did _not_ cause a global
> flood, because we _know_, through conscience and reason,
> that a real loving God would do no such thing,
> drowning innocent babies and kittens and puppies.
>
> The fact that Robert doubles-down on such absurdities
> only shows how far Robert will go to _slander_ God.
>
>>> We also know that cramming all the land animals onto a big boat to
>>> survive a flood is nothing more than a fantasy.
>>
>> Then you are scientifically limited in understanding.
>
> Bullshit. Robert's ad-hominem argument is a logical fallacy,
> and he has now abandoned any logic he might have had.
>
> I've looked, and it appears Robert has a device of denying human
> knowledge with this logical fallacy.
>
>>> We also know there is no evidence of a world-wide flood, in any event.
>>
>> There are sea shells, etc in the tops of the highest mountains.
>
> Some of them, yes -- after being uplifted. For example, two techtonic
> plates are cramming into each other, uplifting the tallest mountain
> range in the world: the Himalayas.
>
>> The half life of the earths gravitational field shows the interruption.
>
> Balderdash. There is no "half life of the earths [sic] gravitation
> field".
>
>> And there are numerous other evidences.
>
> Such as? You're batting .000 so far, maybe you should visit the newsgroup
> talk.origins and tell us there about your global flood imaginings.
>
>> All of which I have shown in this group
>> many many years ago.
>
> I never saw any such thing. Do you have _any_ references for your
> suppositions? Even a Message-ID to an article where you list your
> references would be more welcome than such hand-waving.
>
>> Plus, I believe the word of God in all such
>> matters.
>
> I strongly doubt you even know what "word of God" means.
>
>>> Bibidolatrous online preachers tie themselves up in knots with their
>>> defenses of biblical inerrancy.
>>
>> For this reason many should go back to the original languages to see
>> what it really says, and then retranslated it into todays English
>> understandings, but far better than that is to listen to the Holy Spirit
>> who will lead those that walk in the spirit of God into truth and
>> understanding, and what could be better than getting the word of God
>> from the source of it all.
>
> Robert doesn't seem to understand that conscience and reason are
> God-given, and wholly consistent with one's connection to the Holy Spirit.
> Unfortunately, Robert idolizes the Bible, so he is led astray by John 1:1,
> in which Christianity gets the Logos wrong. c. 500BCE, Heraclitus wrote
> about the Logos, the Divine Order. That, too, is God-given, and
> the cosmic organizing principle that (for example) ultimately
> caused people to grow from single cells into persons.
>
are you saying he's you

On 28/05/2024 6:44 am, % wrote:
> Robert wrote:
>> On May 27, 2024, El Kabong wrote
>> (in article<j2l85j9so6p5qonuv8bgr7aitn95tj40b0@4ax.com>):
>>
>>> Robert wrote:
>>>> On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>> On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
>>>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>>>> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>> Creon <creon@creon.earth>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious notions
>>>>>>>>>>> there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say embracing
>>>>>>>>>>> religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ''
>>>>>>>>>> The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
>>>>>>>>>> directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as
>>>>>>>>>> even on
>>>>>>>>>> Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be
>>>>>>>>>> superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with
>>>>>>>>>> reason, utter
>>>>>>>>>> the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will
>>>>>>>>>> authority. It
>>>>>>>>>> can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim
>>>>>>>>>> obedience. What
>>>>>>>>>> God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of his own; so
>>>>>>>>>> nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on
>>>>>>>>>> reason and
>>>>>>>>>> conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it
>>>>>>>>>> may. One
>>>>>>>>>> chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring natural
>>>>>>>>>> morality and
>>>>>>>>>> natural religion to their original and proper place,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> First you need to know what you are talking about, and understand
>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>> throwing shade.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a bad side
>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>> left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
>>>>>>>> Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
>>>>>>>> Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a place
>>>>>>>> for it.
>>>>>>>> Murder in any form is just as evil.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
>>>>>>>>> will not be freed at the end of six years as the
>>>>>>>>> men are.
>>>>>>>>> Exodus 21:7-11
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of
>>>>>>>> slavery most
>>>>>>>> think of as overblown by evil people. This was a willing
>>>>>>>> indenture, like
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>> you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for a
>>>>>>>> shorter
>>>>>>>> time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer than the
>>>>>>>> years that
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more
>>>>>>>> complicated
>>>>>>>> topic
>>>>>>>> that this brief explanation, and yes, I know that most people do
>>>>>>>> not get
>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>> But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to
>>>>>>>> feed and
>>>>>>>> clothe
>>>>>>>> their families instead of opting to die prematurely of
>>>>>>>> starvation or
>>>>>>>> freeze
>>>>>>>> to death. This was also common in the early days of America
>>>>>>>> regardless
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> race. Even in the biblical times many “slaves” could buy back their
>>>>>>>> freedom from the monies earned for their work. Some never opted
>>>>>>>> out,
>>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>>> to work for their living and get a little spending money on top
>>>>>>>> of all
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> other benefits provided them. Bigots will never understand what
>>>>>>>> I am
>>>>>>>> saying,
>>>>>>>> and they would be the same type of people who would treat their
>>>>>>>> slaves
>>>>>>>> poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh words
>>>>>>>> and bad
>>>>>>>> attitudes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the various
>>>>>> meanings
>>>>>> for the one English word called slavery.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, there aren't "various meanings" for slavery. A slave
>>>>> is a person who is owned by another person, a practice
>>>>> which you obviously condone.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/
>>>>
>>>> https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/modern-slavery/
>>>>
>>>> https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/slavery-uk/
>>>>
>>>> None of this has to do with religions.
>>>
>>> It has everything to do with religion, since you are
>>> defending the bible's acceptance of slavery.
>>>
>>>>>> Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and don’t’s of
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do they dangle in front of you,
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> actual freedoms do you have to keep on being an employee. Think
>>>>>> about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pure hyperbole. False equivalence.
>>>>
>>>> What makes you think so? Too tired to think, or are you just another
>>>> frog in
>>>> a pot of boiling water.
>>>
>>> You're being stupid again, and you know it. Voluntary
>>> employment is not involuntary servitude.
>>
>> It is voluntary servitude. Which is what I have been talking about all
>> along.
>> There is both voluntary and involuntary servitude yet you guys are so
>> bent on
>> your self righteous indignation that you lose all sense of rationale and
>> understanding.
>>
>> The jews who accepted voluntary slaves, would at the time set for the
>> ending
>> of that contractural agreement, if they wanted to stay where they were,
>> because of marrying another slave, would then have their ear places
>> against a
>> doorway, and have the lob pierced with an awl, showing that they were
>> there
>> by choice.
>>
>> None of you people have any economic sense, rationale, or
>> intelligence, in
>> that if you and your family had lost everything, had no food, housing or
>> clothing, would rather sit there and die, then sell your services for
>> a time
>> so as to provide all that stuff so you can get back on your feet. And
>> everyone lives, to regain what was lost.
>>
>> Your spouses, if you have one, and children, are all short changed
>> when they
>> hooked up with you, it you will not take charge and care about their well
>> being when the chips are down.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar paid
>>>>>> football
>>>>>> players who made a point out of their slavery by the white man,
>>>>>> and what
>>>>>> they
>>>>>
>>>>> That's MX-stupid.
>>>>
>>>> Nevertheless it was well stated in the news.
>>>
>>> So what? If every media outlet covers the alleged
>>> players' alleged claims, does that make them right?
>>>
>>> Any NFL player is free to quit in the middle of first
>>> down. There are zillions of kids chomping at the bit to
>>> become NFL "slaves".
>>
>> The same thing goes for your voluntary servitude position. You are a
>> slave to
>> everything that you own which is not fully paid for.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
>>>>>>> it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world?
>>>>>> What about
>>>>>> pimps and their women?
>>>>>> What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the dole?
>>>>>> People
>>>>>> that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What about the countries
>>>>>> controlled by Dictators?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll take that as a "yes slavery is still perfectly
>>>>> justified because political prisoners in Red China are
>>>>> forced to make plastic toys for Happy Meals."
>>>>
>>>> All forms of slavery are NOT justified, never said or intimidated
>>>> that it
>>>> is.
>>>> You just blew your cred's irretrievably also showed an inability to
>>>> reason.
>>>
>>> You defended the bible's acceptance of slavery. So yeah,
>>> you did intimate it's justified.
>>
>> No, that was the knee jerk reaction of everyone here that responded to my
>> statements, they overlooked what I said was bad about some forms of
>> slavery
>> and why other forms are proper. I am not going to back off on my
>> statements
>> just to placate unreasonable people that have no rational or
>> understanding.
>>
>> You think you own yourself? If you are employed, then quit, see what
>> happens
>> to the things you own are are in bondage for.
>>>
>>>
>>> Robert, do you agree that slavery is immoral, and was
>>> always immoral?
>>>
>>> Yes or no.
>>>
>>>>> Did you not read Creon's post about Parker? You are
>>>>> Exhibit A for putting biblical dogma above conscience.
>>>>
>>>> I don’t remember seeing it much less reading it.
>>>
>>> You quoted it above.
>>
>> Look at the dates of his original post and this one. The bottom line
>> is, I do
>> not go by the words of so-called religious men. Theologians, etc.
>> There are
>> plenty of atheists who hold a Dr.’s degree in theology, or a Masters. And
>> none of them know God.
>>>
>>>
>>> Feel silly much?
>>
>> Not at all, especially when I consider the sources who speak out of their
>> irrational agendas, and cannot read with comprehension and are not wise
>> enough to understand anyone who does not parrot their agenda.
>>
>> You would rather die, and your family die, than engage in voluntary
>> servitude. So be it, that is the extent of the rational of all
>> atheists here.
>>>
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>
>>
> i win

Robert wrote:
> On May 27, 2024, Maximus wrote
> (in article <lbj008FkikiU1@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> Robert wrote:
>>> On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote
>>> (in article <lbid2pFf23cU6@mid.individual.net>):
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 20:02:08 -0700, Robert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>> (in article <XnsB17ED3D33470D629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> Where did God give the animals a choice?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cite the Bible passage.
>>>>> Look at my answer to you in regards to that earlier this year, My answer
>>>>> remains the same.
>>>> The answer is:
>>>>
>>>> The Noatic flood is clearly a myth about God, because we know that
>>>> if there is a loving God, He would not kill all the babies and
>>>> puppies and kittens, etc., in the world. In fact, even suggesting that
>>>> God would do such a thing is a _slander_ against God.
>>> Gen 6:5-8 (KJV)
>>>
>>> 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that
>>> every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
>>>
>>> 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved
>>> him at his heart.
>> pity he couldn't have foreseen that. pity he wasn't omniscient. oops!
> It is really sad to see your hatred of God. First you say one thing then when
> shown that you spoke without knowledge you changed you tune quickly, yet
> again you were wrong.

did I? perhaps you can enlighten me. I have no idea what you refer to

> I could show you that too, but your own words defy your
> logic. After all Noah was seen by God out of all the millions of people. How
> could he be aware of that? How could he be aware of Methuselah dying 25 Years
> before the Flood, and that other than Noah he was the only one left who still
> believed in God?

bottom line is that according to your bible God makes mistakes. that's
not something one would expect from an omnipotent, omniscient God, is it

>
> How is it that you can have such hatred and yet have interest in a God that
> you claim is not real?

I argue against the claims that ppl like you make, to show they're
untrue and the lies you tell, and the harm religious indoctrination does
to people

>
> How come you and other such like minded individuals waste so much time trying
> to place or make yourself superior to God, which is what Satan did.

see previous comment.

> Yes,
> Satan, the god of this world. It is he that is your spiritual father, as well
> as the others.
>
> Every one of you argues based on hearsay. Not the studying of scripture,

nonsense. some ppl here have extensive knowledge of the bible. as I
said, I simply address claims that are made for your God and the bible
according to my opinion or beliefs. I don't need to be a bible student
or theologian for that. If i am wrong in what I say then prove me wrong.

> nor
> any ’scientific’ study proofs to see whether God is real and does operate
> according to his word, or does not. Even unto the Jews who hated God he said
> this,...
>
> Mal 3:10-15 (KJV)
>
> 10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in
> mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not
> open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall
> not be room enough to receive it.
>
> 11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy
> the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the
> time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.
>
> 12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome
> land, saith the LORD of hosts . 13 Your words have been stout against me,
> saith the LORD. Yet ye say, What have we spoken so much against thee?
>
> 14 Ye have said, It is vain to serve God: and what profit is it that we have
> kept his ordinance, and that we have walked mournfully before the LORD of
> hosts?
>
> 15 And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set
> up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered.
>
> Have any of you got the guts or the integrity to finally prove or disprove
> the Almighty God?

you seem to be a bit frustrated. perhaps it's because you're not winning
your arguments. you choose to come here (alt.atheism) to argue for your
god. no one is forcing you to.

>>
>>> 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of
>>> the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the
>>> air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
>>>
>>> 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD
>>>
>>> God said otherwise.
>>>
>>>> We also know that cramming all the land animals onto a big boat
>>>> to survive a flood is nothing more than a fantasy.
>>> Then you are scientifically limited in understanding.
>> bullshit. it's an impossibility. you only say you believe it because you
>> have to because it's in the bible. if it wasn't a biblical story you
>> wouldn't give it a second thought.

I notice you ignore this

>>>> We also know there is no evidence of a world-wide flood, in any event.
>>> There are sea shells, etc in the tops of the highest mountains. The half
>>> life
>>> of the earths gravitational field shows the interruption. And there are
>>> numerous other evidences. All of which I have shown in this group many many
>>> years ago. Plus, I believe the word of God in all such matters.
>> whoopdedoo! there are various civilizations that never experienced a
>> flood. that alone knocks you out of the ball game. it was simply a
>> regional flood that grew into the myth of a world wide flood.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth

and this

>>
>>>> Bibidolatrous online preachers tie themselves up in knots with
>>>> their defenses of biblical inerrancy.
>>> For this reason many should go back to the original languages to see what it
>>> really says, and then retranslated it into todays English understandings,
>>> but
>>> far better than that is to listen to the Holy Spirit who will lead those
>>> that
>>> walk in the spirit of God into truth and understanding, and what could be
>>> better than getting the word of God from the source of it all.
>

--
“Atheism is the birth right of all human, remember that!”- hhyapster 7.4.23

"Christian beliefs fail against reason, facts, and knowledge"

"Religion is not about truth, it's about lifestyle"

"God is a convenient explanation for what man does not understand.
The less that's inexplicable, the less need for a 'God' explanation."

"The problem with theism is that it never remains within
the realm of belief, but invariably proceeds to assertion"

On May 27, 2024, Creon wrote
(in article <lbkasqFi5drU2@mid.individual.net>):

> On Mon, 27 May 2024 00:51:03 -0700, Robert wrote:
>
> > On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote (in article
> > <lbid2pFf23cU6@mid.individual.net>):
> >
> > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 20:02:08 -0700, Robert wrote:
> > >
> > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote (in article
> > > > <XnsB17ED3D33470D629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > >
> > > > > Where did God give the animals a choice?
> > > > >
> > > > > Cite the Bible passage.
> > > >
> > > > Look at my answer to you in regards to that earlier this year, My
> > > > answer remains the same.
> > >
> > > The answer is:
> > >
> > > The Noatic flood is clearly a myth about God, because we know that if
> > > there is a loving God, He would not kill all the babies and puppies and
> > > kittens, etc., in the world. In fact, even suggesting that God would do
> > > such a thing is a _slander_ against God.
> > Gen 6:5-8 (KJV)
> >
> > 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and
> > that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil
> > continually.
> >
> > 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it
> > grieved him at his heart.
> >
> > 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the
> > face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the
> > fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
> >
> > 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD
> >
> > God said otherwise.
>
> Here is the point where I abandon Robert to his
> Bible extremism. The only reason to answer him now
> is pedagogical, for the edification of onlookers.
>
> I just made the point that God did _not_ cause a global
> flood, because we _know_, through conscience and reason,
> that a real loving God would do no such thing,
> drowning innocent babies and kittens and puppies.
>
> The fact that Robert doubles-down on such absurdities
> only shows how far Robert will go to _slander_ God.

Such extreme wisdom! Especially in light of what Gods word says. Which was
quoted above and below.

I will leave you to relish in your brilliance.
>
>
> > > We also know that cramming all the land animals onto a big boat to
> > > survive a flood is nothing more than a fantasy.
> >
> > Then you are scientifically limited in understanding.
>
> Bullshit. Robert's ad-hominem argument is a logical fallacy,
> and he has now abandoned any logic he might have had.
>
> I've looked, and it appears Robert has a device of denying human
> knowledge with this logical fallacy.

LOL not at all, human knowledge is just that Human, not spiritual. Of this
temporary world, and as such it can only go so far. You might have noticed
from any review of history, men have exhibited all the same signs as the
caveman warriors with the exception their man caves are seemingly fancier,
have more gadgets and are easily destroyed by their women and or natural
decay or storms, etc.

Nice to hear that you state I had logic. Yet here on display is full out
caveman competitive speech, and empire bldg, Flexing what muscle you might
have in front of your peers and bellowing like a toothless bull. Year
rrrriightttt millions of years, they say, of evolution all of with showed
that you can take the man out of the jungle, but you cannot take the jungle
out of the man.
>
>
> > > We also know there is no evidence of a world-wide flood, in any event.
> >
> > There are sea shells, etc in the tops of the highest mountains.
>
> Some of them, yes -- after being uplifted. For example, two techtonic
> plates are cramming into each other, uplifting the tallest mountain
> range in the world: the Himalayas.

Partially true, sounds like a great excuse, problem is that there is recorded
history of moutains present at the time of the Great Flood, as well as the
height of the waters above the mountains.
>
>
> > The half life of the earths gravitational field shows the interruption.
>
> Balderdash. There is no "half life of the earths [sic] gravitation
> field".

ROTFLOL! Don’t search that on the net And btw, I did not say Gravity. It is
in fact the magnetic field. And that was also used to prove the possibility
of a Great Flood. As has been shown by an atheist scientist.
>
>
> > And there are numerous other evidences.
>
> Such as? You're batting .000 so far, maybe you should visit the newsgroup
> talk.origins and tell us there about your global flood imaginings.

What for, half the people there really think their spouse is true to them.
>
>
> > All of which I have shown in this group
> > many many years ago.
>
> I never saw any such thing. Do you have _any_ references for your
> suppositions? Even a Message-ID to an article where you list your
> references would be more welcome than such hand-waving.

What for? When you are shown the errors of your thinking, you shift the
topic, you have the biblical proof of your errors, and did it change you mind
to even just consider such a thing? Nope, you stuck to your agenda like the
Democrats of agains President Trump even when video and other recorded
evidences are displayed for all to read.

Gonna have to let you go. Word to the wise, keep your comments in your own
good fella NG’s lest you be shown to be a fraud. :)

>
>
> > Plus, I believe the word of God in all such
> > matters.
>
> I strongly doubt you even know what "word of God" means.
>
> > > Bibidolatrous online preachers tie themselves up in knots with their
> > > defenses of biblical inerrancy.
> >
> > For this reason many should go back to the original languages to see
> > what it really says, and then retranslated it into todays English
> > understandings, but far better than that is to listen to the Holy Spirit
> > who will lead those that walk in the spirit of God into truth and
> > understanding, and what could be better than getting the word of God
> > from the source of it all.
>
> Robert doesn't seem to understand that conscience and reason are
> God-given, and wholly consistent with one's connection to the Holy Spirit.
> Unfortunately, Robert idolizes the Bible, so he is led astray by John 1:1,
> in which Christianity gets the Logos wrong. c. 500BCE, Heraclitus wrote
> about the Logos, the Divine Order. That, too, is God-given, and
> the cosmic organizing principle that (for example) ultimately
> caused people to grow from single cells into persons.

Robert wrote:
> On May 27, 2024, Maximus wrote
> (in article <lbj0fvFkknkU1@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> Robert wrote:
>>> On May 27, 2024, Maximus wrote
>>> (in article <lbiqcvFjoekU1@mid.individual.net>):
>>>
>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>> (in article <XnsB17ED4CF827E7629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C03D34E0009885C30667038F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17E59C916DC5629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maximus <gladiator@colosseum.rome> wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:lbfl7fF5di8U1@mid.individual.net:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september
>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-septe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mber.org:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-s
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eptember.o rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will be no peace. Satan comes to kill, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy, filling the heart
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with enmity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peace, and eternal life with him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it?
>>>>>>>>>>>> None of them.
>>>>>>>>>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>>>>>>>>>> everything that happens.
>>>>>>>>>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>>>>>>>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>>>>>>>>>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>>>>>>>>> We were given a heads up, 1,000’s of years ago. Yet you fully
>>>>>>>>>> ignore it.
>>>>>>>>> how unfortunate that God relies on mere mortals such as you to tell
>>>>>>>>> us his wishes. he can (supposedly) create a Universe but cannot
>>>>>>>>> (for example) patch into our communication systems and send
>>>>>>>>> messages directly.
>>>>>>>> That is one of the most bizarre
>>>>>>>> parts of Christianity.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> God wants to convey a message to
>>>>>>>> all mankind, so he has one person
>>>>>>>> preach it in a backwater desert
>>>>>>>> province and makes no arrangement for
>>>>>>>> this message to be even written down
>>>>>>>> much less broadcast to the whole world.
>>>>>>> The Good News of God was preached and taught and lived by Jesus the
>>>>>>> Christ, whose words are recorded in the NT and prophesied of in the
>>>>>>> OT.
>>>>>> Not one word of Jesus was written down
>>>>>> until dacades after his death. Even Plato
>>>>>> and Buddha - centuries before Jesus - made
>>>>>> arrangements for scribes to record what they
>>>>>> said. And the Son of God didn't?
>>>>> That is such a dumb statement, I can hardly believe my eyes.
>>>> explain why. if there's a God who had a message for mankind so important
>>>> that our eternal destiny depended on it, why would what he wanted us to
>>>> know not be written precisely ? he did it with the 10 commandments,
>>>> according to your belief. why not in Jesus' time? we do not have one
>>>> word recorded by Jesus anywhere. (that we know of.) it beggars belief
>>>> that the message would be entrusted to hearsay decades after the events.
>>> Read a red letter edition of the Bible to see the words of Jesus that was
>>> recorded,
>> they're only words he's reported to have said. nothing written anywhere
>> by Jesus.
>>
>>> however, the red letter editions often miss ALL of what Jesus
>>> actually spoke.
>> how would you know? as I said if Jesus had bothered to write down what
>> his message was, what it was god (supposedly) wanted us to know, all
>> this discussion and controversy would be avoided. there's no sound why a
>> god who had a message for mankind would not do that.
> The spirit of God inspired the scriptures. All of them, to man for the
> purposes of writing them down, so what’s the difference? If the last will
> and testament of you parents were written up by another, for them, as they
> designed, would you deny that as well?

the difference is the scriptures were not dictated by Jesus during his
lifetime.

>>
>>> And besides that, the words that Jesus spoke were the words
>>> His Heavenly Father gave him to speak, and all scripture comes from the
>>> Father 1 Tim 3:16 IIRC.
>>>>>> Was His message just not important enough?
>>>> that is the most logical conclusion
>>> You will have full proof and truth upon your death.
>> I won't exist after my death, and neither will you, or anyone for that
>> matter, and you cannot prove otherwise.
> Your body may not but it will be resurrected to death or life if you were
> born again. When it is, it will be in the state it was at ones passing from this world.

On 28/05/2024 2:36 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
> On Mon, 27 May 2024 19:42:46 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> On 27/05/2024 10:29 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
>>> On Mon, 27 May 2024 09:09:18 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 27/05/2024 4:02 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:45:49 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>>>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 26/05/2024 5:01 pm, Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> er.o rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart with enmity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and eternal life with him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it?
>>>>>>>>>>>> None of them.
>>>>>>>>>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>>>>>>>>>> everything that happens.
>>>>>>>>>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>>>>>>> Such as........?
>>>>>>>> Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>>>>>>>>>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>>>>>>>> Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
>>>>>>>>> and tell us how children dying of cancer
>>>>>>>>> are part of a "Divine Plan".
>>>>>>>> What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for these
>>>>>>>> things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The destroyer/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think you make this stuff up as you go along. you claim God created
>>>>>>> everything, now you say Satan created cancer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is a valid point.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why would God allow Satan to create cancer?

In the Name of Jesus wrote:
>>>> Indeed, why did you bring cancer upon yourself?
>>>>
>>>> Why did you bring about pollution?
>>>>
>>>> Did you think you weren't going to reap what you sow?

Vincent wrote:
>>> Not me, but the innocent children who get struck down with cancer. Are
>>> those children "reaping what they sow"?

In the Name of Jesus wrote:
>> Everything man does effects his neighbour, one way or another, children
>> and adults alike.

> I know they do -- but should they,

How are you going to see how glorious God is if you fail to see how
defiled you are and what evil you produce?

> if your god cares for them?

Where would the world be if it depended on your understanding of God?
Answer: where it is. Lost.

You do not know God's plans or purposes or what He is capable of,
Vincent. It is not over till the fat lady sings.

Do you know why hope exists? Because there is something to place your
hope in. In atheism is no hope. What does that tell you? That hope is
fiction or that atheism is fiction?

In the Name of Jesus

>
>>>> Also, see my reply to that Mitchell Holman fella.
>>>
>>> So if someone contracts a disease, it's always their fault? Should we
>>> abolish hospitals, since it's the patients' own fault that they're in
>>> there?
>>
>> You keep things shallow to satisfy your ignorance, Vincent.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In the Name of Jesus
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the Name of Jesus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> but those of us who know
>>>>>>> better know diseases are from a biological source, not from beings that
>>>>>>> don't exist
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But that is not a valid point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because things can't create themselves.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael Christ

Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
news:0001HW.2C052B5000044BE6306B2638F@news.eternal-september.org:

> On May 27, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> (in article <XnsB17F5465C7D50629555@185.151.15.190>):
>
>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> news:0001HW.2C042A650008BB5D30EE6438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>> > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > (in article <XnsB17ED0FB44B1B629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> >
>> > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> > > news:0001HW.2C0406BF0000606B30EE6438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>> > >
>> > > > On May 26, 2024, pursent100@gmail.com wrote
>> > > > (in article<rcycnY5V4p1DKc77nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com>):
>> > > >
>> > > > > Robert wrote:
>> > > > > > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
>> > > > > > (in article<rn975jdrh5gbuiocad2jv49a7bm978vqm1@4ax.com>):
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Robert wrote:
>> > > > > > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > > > > > > > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
>> > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > if we abandon fact based thought in favor of
>> > > > > > > > > > > religious notions there's no telling were it will
>> > > > > > > > > > > lead. that's why I say embracing religious ideas
>> > > > > > > > > > > is perilous and unwise.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > ''
>> > > > > > > > > > The Bible is not greater than conscience and
>> > > > > > > > > > reason. They are directly from God, God's voice
>> > > > > > > > > > heard plainly in the heart, as even on Horeb, or
>> > > > > > > > > > Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can
>> > > > > > > > > > be superior to these instructors. The Bible may
>> > > > > > > > > > agree with reason, utter the same sentiments with
>> > > > > > > > > > conscience; and so far it will
>> > > > > > > > > > authority. It can never contradict these
>> > > > > > > > > > counselors, and yet claim obedience. What God has
>> > > > > > > > > > made cannot be unmade by any power short of his
>> > > > > > > > > > own; so nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever
>> > > > > > > > > > become binding on reason and conscience, let it be
>> > > > > > > > > > taught on what external authority it may. One chief
>> > > > > > > > > > merit of Christianity consists in restoring natural
>> > > > > > > > > > morality and natural religion to their original and
>> > > > > > > > > > proper place,
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural
>> > > > > > > > > morality"?
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > First you need to know what you are talking about, and
>> > > > > > > > understand without throwing shade.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there
>> > > > > > > > is a bad side which
>> > > > > > > > left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
>> > > > > > > > Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
>> > > > > > > > Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time
>> > > > > > > > and a place for it. Murder in any form is just as evil.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
>> > > > > > > > > will not be freed at the end of six years as the
>> > > > > > > > > men are.
>> > > > > > > > > Exodus 21:7-11
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > This was done for economic reasons, and was not the
>> > > > > > > > type of slavery most think of as overblown by evil
>> > > > > > > > people. This was a willing indenture, like when
>> > > > > > > > you went to work for any employer. At that time it
>> > > > > > > > could be for a shorter time, long enough to pay off the
>> > > > > > > > debt, but no longer than the years that the
>> > > > > > > > Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far
>> > > > > > > > more complicated topic that this brief explanation, and
>> > > > > > > > yes, I know that most people do not get it.
>> > > > > > > > But many sell themselves as indentured employees in
>> > > > > > > > order to feed and clothe
>> > > > > > > > their families instead of opting to die prematurely of
>> > > > > > > > starvation or freeze
>> > > > > > > > to death. This was also common in the early days of
>> > > > > > > > America regardless of race. Even in the biblical times
>> > > > > > > > many “slaves” could buy back their freedom from the
>> > > > > > > > monies earned for their work. Some never opted out,
>> > > > > > > > content to work for their living and get a little
>> > > > > > > > spending money on top of all the other benefits
>> > > > > > > > provided them. Bigots will never understand what I am
>> > > > > > > > saying, and they would be the same type of people who
>> > > > > > > > would treat their slaves poorly and beat them, like
>> > > > > > > > they do here with their harsh words and bad attitudes.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the
>> > > > > > various meanings for the one English word called slavery.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and
>> > > > > > don’t’s of your life as an employee. What ‘carrots’
>> > > > > > do they dangle in front of you, what actual freedoms do you
>> > > > > > have to keep on being an employee. Think about it.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar
>> > > > > > paid football players who made a point out of their slavery
>> > > > > > by the white man, and what they
>> > > > > > had to do whether they liked it or not in order to remain
>> > > > > > on the teams they were a part of. To them that was slavery,
>> > > > > > they shouldn’t be required to practice, just show up for
>> > > > > > the game. Many scoffed at the whole idea, especially
>> > > > > > because of the monies they make, their retirement programs
>> > > > > > as well as health care.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Yet they had a point. We all have to give in order to get,
>> > > > > > in some way.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I also had many friends who owned their companies, who felt
>> > > > > > that their employees were their ’slaves’ some actually
>> > > > > > disrespected them, not openly, but did take advantage of
>> > > > > > them. I never respected them, and it was embarrassing to be
>> > > > > > around them. But that is still the way of men in today’s
>> > > > > > world. That is why there were some good owners and bad
>> > > > > > owners. Biblically speaking under the Jewish Covenant,
>> > > > > > there were provisions made for people so as to be able to
>> > > > > > feed their families, fairly and squarely. But those with
>> > > > > > the mindset of harsh slavery practices by evil men put all
>> > > > > > slavery into that one mindset box, which is unfair. A lot
>> > > > > > of America was made up of white slaves and their families,
>> > > > > > who for the sake of freedom and the free ride via ship,
>> > > > > > into this country gave up 5-10 years of their life just to
>> > > > > > get here, and be able to build their own farms and or
>> > > > > > businesses once released of their obligations.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Would you have denied these people the opportunity to live
>> > > > > > and not die?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
>> > > > > > > it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the
>> > > > > > world? What about pimps and their women?
>> > > > > > What about employee’s and employers? What about people on
>> > > > > > the dole? People that are slaves to their drugs of choice.
>> > > > > > What about the countries controlled
>> > > > > > by Dictators?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
>> > > > > they can't be , slavery is illegal everywhere
>> > > >
>> > > > Then you deceive yourself. People have been arrested here in
>> > > > the USA, this century for slavery.
>> > >
>> > > You missed the point.
>> > >
>> > > He said slavery is illegal
>> > > everywhere and he is right. The
>> > > fact that it may be practiced
>> > > in isolated places doesn't change
>> > > that.
>> >
>> > https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-that-st
>> > ill -have- slavery
>> >
>> > Enjoy.
>>
>> From your own source:
>>
>> "Mauritania, which lies in the western region
>> of the continent of Africa, was the last
>> country to abolish slavery."
>>
>> https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/last-country-to-
>> abolish-slavery
>
> Yes it stated that they were the last one to do it, but did not say
> there were no countries left that practiced it.

% <pursent100@gmail.com> wrote in
news:IvicnbGOs44kacn7nZ2dnZfqn_sAAAAA@giganews.com:

> Robert wrote:
>> On May 27, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> (in article <XnsB17F5465C7D50629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>
>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>> news:0001HW.2C042A650008BB5D30EE6438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>
>>>> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>> (in article <XnsB17ED0FB44B1B629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>
>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0406BF0000606B30EE6438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 26, 2024, pursent100@gmail.com wrote
>>>>>> (in article<rcycnY5V4p1DKc77nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>>>> On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
>>>>>>>> (in article<rn975jdrh5gbuiocad2jv49a7bm978vqm1@4ax.com>):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> if we abandon fact based thought in favor of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> religious notions there's no telling were it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lead. that's why I say embracing religious ideas is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> perilous and unwise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ''
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>> They are directly from God, God's voice heard plainly
>>>>>>>>>>>> in the heart, as even on Horeb, or Sinai or the mount
>>>>>>>>>>>> of transfiguration. Nothing can be superior to these
>>>>>>>>>>>> instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
>>>>>>>>>>>> the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will
>>>>>>>>>>>> authority. It can never contradict these counselors,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and yet claim obedience. What God has made cannot be
>>>>>>>>>>>> unmade by any power short of his own; so nothing
>>>>>>>>>>>> arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on
>>>>>>>>>>>> reason and conscience, let it be taught on what
>>>>>>>>>>>> external authority it may. One chief merit of
>>>>>>>>>>>> Christianity consists in restoring natural morality and
>>>>>>>>>>>> natural religion to their original and
>>>>>>>>>>>> proper place,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural
>>>>>>>>>>> morality"?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> First you need to know what you are talking about, and
>>>>>>>>>> understand without throwing shade.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is
>>>>>>>>>> a bad side which
>>>>>>>>>> left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
>>>>>>>>>> Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
>>>>>>>>>> Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a
>>>>>>>>>> place for it. Murder in any form is just as evil.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
>>>>>>>>>>> will not be freed at the end of six years as the
>>>>>>>>>>> men are.
>>>>>>>>>>> Exodus 21:7-11
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of
>>>>>>>>>> slavery most think of as overblown by evil people. This was
>>>>>>>>>> a willing indenture, like when
>>>>>>>>>> you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be
>>>>>>>>>> for a shorter time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no
>>>>>>>>>> longer than the years that the
>>>>>>>>>> Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more
>>>>>>>>>> complicated topic that this brief explanation, and yes, I
>>>>>>>>>> know that most people do not get it.
>>>>>>>>>> But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order
>>>>>>>>>> to feed and clothe
>>>>>>>>>> their families instead of opting to die prematurely of
>>>>>>>>>> starvation or freeze
>>>>>>>>>> to death. This was also common in the early days of America
>>>>>>>>>> regardless of race. Even in the biblical times many
>>>>>>>>>> “slaves” could buy back their freedom from the monies
>>>>>>>>>> earned for their work. Some never opted out, content
>>>>>>>>>> to work for their living and get a little spending money on
>>>>>>>>>> top of all the other benefits provided them. Bigots will
>>>>>>>>>> never understand what I am saying,
>>>>>>>>>> and they would be the same type of people who would treat
>>>>>>>>>> their slaves poorly and beat them, like they do here with
>>>>>>>>>> their harsh words and bad attitudes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the
>>>>>>>> various meanings for the one English word called slavery.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and
>>>>>>>> don’t’s of your life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do
>>>>>>>> they dangle in front of you, what actual freedoms do you have
>>>>>>>> to keep on being an employee. Think about it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar
>>>>>>>> paid football players who made a point out of their slavery by
>>>>>>>> the white man, and what they
>>>>>>>> had to do whether they liked it or not in order to remain on
>>>>>>>> the teams they were a part of. To them that was slavery, they
>>>>>>>> shouldn’t be required to practice, just show up for the game.
>>>>>>>> Many scoffed at the whole idea, especially because of the
>>>>>>>> monies they make, their retirement programs as well
>>>>>>>> as health care.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yet they had a point. We all have to give in order to get, in
>>>>>>>> some way.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I also had many friends who owned their companies, who felt
>>>>>>>> that their employees were their ’slaves’ some actually
>>>>>>>> disrespected them, not openly, but did take advantage of them.
>>>>>>>> I never respected them, and it was embarrassing to be around
>>>>>>>> them. But that is still the way of men in today’s
>>>>>>>> world. That is why there were some good owners and bad owners.
>>>>>>>> Biblically speaking under the Jewish Covenant, there were
>>>>>>>> provisions made for people so as to be able to feed their
>>>>>>>> families, fairly and squarely. But those with the
>>>>>>>> mindset of harsh slavery practices by evil men put all slavery
>>>>>>>> into that one mindset box, which is unfair. A lot of America
>>>>>>>> was made up of white slaves and their families, who for the
>>>>>>>> sake of freedom and the free ride via ship, into this country
>>>>>>>> gave up 5-10 years of their life just to get here, and be able
>>>>>>>> to build their own farms and or businesses once released of
>>>>>>>> their obligations.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Would you have denied these people the opportunity to live and
>>>>>>>> not die?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
>>>>>>>>> it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world?
>>>>>>>> What about pimps and their women?
>>>>>>>> What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the
>>>>>>>> dole? People that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What
>>>>>>>> about the countries controlled
>>>>>>>> by Dictators?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
>>>>>>> they can't be , slavery is illegal everywhere
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then you deceive yourself. People have been arrested here in the
>>>>>> USA, this century for slavery.
>>>>>
>>>>> You missed the point.
>>>>>
>>>>> He said slavery is illegal
>>>>> everywhere and he is right. The
>>>>> fact that it may be practiced
>>>>> in isolated places doesn't change
>>>>> that.
>>>>
>>>> https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-that-st
>>>> ill -have- slavery
>>>>
>>>> Enjoy.
>>>
>>> From your own source:
>>>
>>> "Mauritania, which lies in the western region
>>> of the continent of Africa, was the last
>>> country to abolish slavery."
>>>
>>> https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/last-country-to-
>>> abolish-slavery
>>
>> Yes it stated that they were the last one to do it, but did not say
>> there were no countries left that practiced it.
>> So were you ignorant or intentionally deceitful when the very next
>> paragraph said this...
>>
>> Where Is Slavery Still Active?
>>
>> Even in the twenty-first century, there are countries in the world
>> that still have slaves. Even if these countries do not necessarily
>> explicitly acknowledge the fact they have slaves, there are people in
>> the country who do not have any rights and are treated as property.
>> For example, India is believed to have more than eight million slaves
>> living within its borders. China also has close to four million
>> slaves, and they are constantly fending off accusations of human
>> rights violations. North Korea is a very cloistered country where
>> people do not have a lot of rights, and it is widely believed that
>> there are a few million slaves living in North Korea as well.
>>
>> This is why NO ONE should trust anything you say.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.un.org/en/delegate/50-million-people-modern-slavery-un
>>>>>> -r epo rt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This in 2022 the above.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://theconversation.com/fact-check-how-many-people-are-enslave
>>>>>> d- in- the- world-today-107078
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So who has been yanking your chain? ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> Your claim that there is a
>>>>> good side and bad side to slavery
>>>>> is just silly.
>>>>
>>>> When you wanted to escape the tyranny in Europe to the freedom of
>>>> America, and were too poor to cross the street, in the times of
>>>> early America you would far rather sit there and wallow in misery.
>>>> Some people care and some don’t. Men in the Philippines served
>>>> four years in the American Armed forces during the war and later in
>>>> order to get American citizenship for them and to bring their
>>>> immediate families to America, why did they indenture themselves
>>>> knowing the cost could be their life?
>>
>>
> i'm not going to tell you what to say anymore
>

Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
news:0001HW.2C055DE9001027D9306B2638F@news.eternal-september.org:

> On May 27, 2024, Creon wrote
> (in article <lbkasqFi5drU2@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> On Mon, 27 May 2024 00:51:03 -0700, Robert wrote:
>>
>> > On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote (in article
>> > <lbid2pFf23cU6@mid.individual.net>):
>> >
>>
>>
>> > > We also know there is no evidence of a world-wide flood, in any
>> > > event.
>> >
>> > There are sea shells, etc in the tops of the highest mountains.
>>
>> Some of them, yes -- after being uplifted. For example, two techtonic
>> plates are cramming into each other, uplifting the tallest mountain
>> range in the world: the Himalayas.
>
> Partially true, sounds like a great excuse, problem is that there is
> recorded history of moutains present at the time of the Great Flood,
> as well as the height of the waters above the mountains.

Show us this "recorded history of mountains
at the time of the Great Flood"

>>
>>
>> > The half life of the earths gravitational field shows the
>> > interruption.
>>
>> Balderdash. There is no "half life of the earths [sic] gravitation
>> field".
>
> ROTFLOL! Don’t search that on the net And btw, I did not say
> Gravity. It is in fact the magnetic field.

Gravity does not have a half life.

Magnetic fields do not have a half life.

What are you talking about?

On Mon, 27 May 2024 17:33:45 -0700, Robert wrote:

> On May 27, 2024, Creon wrote (in article
> <lbkasqFi5drU2@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> On Mon, 27 May 2024 00:51:03 -0700, Robert wrote:
>>
>> > On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote (in article
>> > <lbid2pFf23cU6@mid.individual.net>):
>> >
>> > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 20:02:08 -0700, Robert wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote (in article
>> > > > <XnsB17ED3D33470D629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> > > >
>> > > > > Where did God give the animals a choice?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Cite the Bible passage.
>> > > >
>> > > > Look at my answer to you in regards to that earlier this year, My
>> > > > answer remains the same.
>> > >
>> > > The answer is:
>> > >
>> > > The Noatic flood is clearly a myth about God, because we know that
>> > > if there is a loving God, He would not kill all the babies and
>> > > puppies and kittens, etc., in the world. In fact, even suggesting
>> > > that God would do such a thing is a _slander_ against God.
>> > Gen 6:5-8 (KJV)
>> >
>> > 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and
>> > that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil
>> > continually.
>> >
>> > 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it
>> > grieved him at his heart.
>> >
>> > 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the
>> > face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and
>> > the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
>> >
>> > 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD
>> >
>> > God said otherwise.
>>
>> Here is the point where I abandon Robert to his Bible extremism. The
>> only reason to answer him now is pedagogical, for the edification of
>> onlookers.
>>
>> I just made the point that God did _not_ cause a global flood, because
>> we _know_, through conscience and reason,
>> that a real loving God would do no such thing,
>> drowning innocent babies and kittens and puppies.
>>
>> The fact that Robert doubles-down on such absurdities only shows how
>> far Robert will go to _slander_ God.
>
> Such extreme wisdom! Especially in light of what Gods word says. Which
> was quoted above and below.

Mock all you like -- you've lost. _You_ are the one saying God
is a mass murderer of innocent babes, puppies, and kittens. Those
of use with clear conscience and sound reason know that God would
not do that.

Therefore, this is a _myth_ about God. QED.

> I will leave you to relish in your brilliance.

Translation: you lost, and you continue to think God is
a mass murderer of babies, kittens, puppies, and squirrels.

>> > > We also know that cramming all the land animals onto a big boat to
>> > > survive a flood is nothing more than a fantasy.
>> >
>> > Then you are scientifically limited in understanding.
>>
>> Bullshit. Robert's ad-hominem argument is a logical fallacy,
>> and he has now abandoned any logic he might have had.
>>
>> I've looked, and it appears Robert has a device of denying human
>> knowledge with this logical fallacy.
>
> LOL not at all, human knowledge is just that Human, not spiritual.

You are limited in your scientific understanding.

>> > > We also know there is no evidence of a world-wide flood, in any
>> > > event.
>> >
>> > There are sea shells, etc in the tops of the highest mountains.
>>
>> Some of them, yes -- after being uplifted. For example, two techtonic
>> plates are cramming into each other, uplifting the tallest mountain
>> range in the world: the Himalayas.
>
> Partially true, sounds like a great excuse, problem is that there is
> recorded history of moutains present at the time of the Great Flood, as
> well as the height of the waters above the mountains.

Is this the level to which you have stooped? Making crap up?

>> > The half life of the earths gravitational field shows the
>> > interruption.
>>
>> Balderdash. There is no "half life of the earths [sic] gravitation
>> field".
>
> ROTFLOL! Don’t search that on the net And btw, I did not say Gravity. It
> is in fact the magnetic field. And that was also used to prove the
> possibility of a Great Flood. As has been shown by an atheist scientist.

Let's see the citation then. I don't believe you, because you've been
shown to be _making crap up_.

>> Such as? You're batting .000 so far, maybe you should visit the
>> newsgroup talk.origins and tell us there about your global flood
>> imaginings.
>
> What for, half the people there really think their spouse is true to
> them.

More ad hominem. Robert has crashed and burned.

>> > All of which I have shown in this group many many years ago.
>>
>> I never saw any such thing. Do you have _any_ references for your
>> suppositions? Even a Message-ID to an article where you list your
>> references would be more welcome than such hand-waving.
>
> What for? When you are shown the errors of your thinking, you shift the
> topic, you have the biblical proof of your errors, and did it change you
> mind to even just consider such a thing? Nope, you stuck to your agenda
> like the Democrats of agains President Trump even when video and other
> recorded evidences are displayed for all to read.
>
> Gonna have to let you go. Word to the wise, keep your comments in your
> own good fella NG’s lest you be shown to be a fraud. :)

Maybe you shouldn't be posting in alt.atheism, Robert, because you can't
handle the truth.

You couldn't even get the origins of Deuteronomy right. I provide
citations, you provided more of your spooky "just so" nonsense.

I am so very happy that the God _I_ believe in isn't a mass murderer
of babies, puppies, and kittens -- unlike you. The Noatic flood
is a myth, and anyone who says God would do such a thing
is a defamer of God, full stop.

>> > Plus, I believe the word of God in all such matters.
>>
>> I strongly doubt you even know what "word of God" means.
>>
>> > > Bibidolatrous online preachers tie themselves up in knots with
>> > > their defenses of biblical inerrancy.
>> >
>> > For this reason many should go back to the original languages to see
>> > what it really says, and then retranslated it into todays English
>> > understandings, but far better than that is to listen to the Holy
>> > Spirit who will lead those that walk in the spirit of God into truth
>> > and understanding, and what could be better than getting the word of
>> > God from the source of it all.
>>
>> Robert doesn't seem to understand that conscience and reason are
>> God-given, and wholly consistent with one's connection to the Holy
>> Spirit.
>> Unfortunately, Robert idolizes the Bible, so he is led astray by John
>> 1:1,
>> in which Christianity gets the Logos wrong. c. 500BCE, Heraclitus wrote
>> about the Logos, the Divine Order. That, too, is God-given, and the
>> cosmic organizing principle that (for example) ultimately caused people
>> to grow from single cells into persons.

For biblical extremists and bibidolators reading
this: you are on notice. /s

--
-c

On 28/05/2024 2:09 pm, Vincent Maycock wrote:
> On Tue, 28 May 2024 10:58:21 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> On 28/05/2024 2:36 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
>>> On Mon, 27 May 2024 19:42:46 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 27/05/2024 10:29 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 27 May 2024 09:09:18 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>>>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 27/05/2024 4:02 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:45:49 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>>>>>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 26/05/2024 5:01 pm, Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> er.o rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart with enmity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and eternal life with him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> None of them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything that happens.
>>>>>>>>>>>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>>>>>>>>> Such as........?
>>>>>>>>>> Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>>>>>>>>>> Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
>>>>>>>>>>> and tell us how children dying of cancer
>>>>>>>>>>> are part of a "Divine Plan".
>>>>>>>>>> What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for these
>>>>>>>>>> things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The destroyer/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think you make this stuff up as you go along. you claim God created
>>>>>>>>> everything, now you say Satan created cancer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is a valid point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why would God allow Satan to create cancer?
>>
>> In the Name of Jesus wrote:
>>>>>> Indeed, why did you bring cancer upon yourself?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why did you bring about pollution?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did you think you weren't going to reap what you sow?
>>
>> Vincent wrote:
>>>>> Not me, but the innocent children who get struck down with cancer. Are
>>>>> those children "reaping what they sow"?
>>
>> In the Name of Jesus wrote:
>>>> Everything man does effects his neighbour, one way or another, children
>>>> and adults alike.
>>
>>
>>> I know they do -- but should they,
>>
>> How are you going to see how glorious God is if you fail to see how
>> defiled you are and what evil you produce?
>
> So God can't overcome evil to show his true character?

He did. You're not that ignorant.

>>> if your god cares for them?
>>
>> Where would the world be if it depended on your understanding of God?
>> Answer: where it is. Lost.
>
> Theism is a way of being lost, yeah.
>
>> You do not know God's plans or purposes or what He is capable of,
>> Vincent. It is not over till the fat lady sings.
>
> So you don't have an answer to my arguments. That's fine with me; my
> problem with theists is that they act like they do know, and that they
> do have plausible answers to atheist questions -- when they don't.

On Tue, 28 May 2024 14:33:07 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
<michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 28/05/2024 2:09 pm, Vincent Maycock wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 May 2024 10:58:21 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 28/05/2024 2:36 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 27 May 2024 19:42:46 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 27/05/2024 10:29 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 27 May 2024 09:09:18 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>>>>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 27/05/2024 4:02 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:45:49 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>>>>>>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 26/05/2024 5:01 pm, Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> er.o rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart with enmity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and eternal life with him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> None of them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything that happens.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Such as........?
>>>>>>>>>>> Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
>>>>>>>>>>>> and tell us how children dying of cancer
>>>>>>>>>>>> are part of a "Divine Plan".
>>>>>>>>>>> What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for these
>>>>>>>>>>> things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The destroyer/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think you make this stuff up as you go along. you claim God created
>>>>>>>>>> everything, now you say Satan created cancer.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That is a valid point.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why would God allow Satan to create cancer?
>>>
>>> In the Name of Jesus wrote:
>>>>>>> Indeed, why did you bring cancer upon yourself?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why did you bring about pollution?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Did you think you weren't going to reap what you sow?
>>>
>>> Vincent wrote:
>>>>>> Not me, but the innocent children who get struck down with cancer. Are
>>>>>> those children "reaping what they sow"?
>>>
>>> In the Name of Jesus wrote:
>>>>> Everything man does effects his neighbour, one way or another, children
>>>>> and adults alike.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I know they do -- but should they,
>>>
>>> How are you going to see how glorious God is if you fail to see how
>>> defiled you are and what evil you produce?
>>
>> So God can't overcome evil to show his true character?
>
>He did. You're not that ignorant.