On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
(in article <XnsB17ED0FB44B1B629555@185.151.15.190>):

> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> news:0001HW.2C0406BF0000606B30EE6438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> > On May 26, 2024, pursent100@gmail.com wrote
> > (in article<rcycnY5V4p1DKc77nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com>):
> >
> > > Robert wrote:
> > > > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> > > > (in article<rn975jdrh5gbuiocad2jv49a7bm978vqm1@4ax.com>):
> > > >
> > > > > Robert wrote:
> > > > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
> > > > > > > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious
> > > > > > > > > notions there's no telling were it will lead. that's why
> > > > > > > > > I say embracing religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ''
> > > > > > > > The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They
> > > > > > > > are directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the
> > > > > > > > heart, as even on Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of
> > > > > > > > transfiguration. Nothing can be superior to these
> > > > > > > > instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
> > > > > > > > the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will
> > > > > > > > authority. It can never contradict these counselors, and
> > > > > > > > yet claim obedience. What God has made cannot be unmade by
> > > > > > > > any power short of his own; so nothing arbitrary or
> > > > > > > > capricious can ever become binding on reason and
> > > > > > > > conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it
> > > > > > > > may. One chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring
> > > > > > > > natural morality and natural religion to their original and
> > > > > > > > proper place,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First you need to know what you are talking about, and
> > > > > > understand without throwing shade.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a
> > > > > > bad side which
> > > > > > left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
> > > > > > Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
> > > > > > Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a
> > > > > > place for it. Murder in any form is just as evil.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
> > > > > > > will not be freed at the end of six years as the
> > > > > > > men are.
> > > > > > > Exodus 21:7-11
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of
> > > > > > slavery most think of as overblown by evil people. This was a
> > > > > > willing indenture, like when
> > > > > > you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for
> > > > > > a shorter time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer
> > > > > > than the years that the
> > > > > > Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more
> > > > > > complicated topic that this brief explanation, and yes, I know
> > > > > > that most people do not get it.
> > > > > > But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to
> > > > > > feed and clothe
> > > > > > their families instead of opting to die prematurely of
> > > > > > starvation or freeze
> > > > > > to death. This was also common in the early days of America
> > > > > > regardless of race. Even in the biblical times many
> > > > > > “slaves” could buy back their freedom from the monies
> > > > > > earned for their work. Some never opted out, content
> > > > > > to work for their living and get a little spending money on top
> > > > > > of all the other benefits provided them. Bigots will never
> > > > > > understand what I am saying,
> > > > > > and they would be the same type of people who would treat their
> > > > > > slaves poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh
> > > > > > words and bad attitudes.
> > > > >
> > > > > So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the various
> > > > meanings for the one English word called slavery.
> > > >
> > > > Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and
> > > > don’t’s of your life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do they
> > > > dangle in front of you, what actual freedoms do you have to keep on
> > > > being an employee. Think about it.
> > > >
> > > > A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar paid
> > > > football players who made a point out of their slavery by the white
> > > > man, and what they
> > > > had to do whether they liked it or not in order to remain on the
> > > > teams they were a part of. To them that was slavery, they
> > > > shouldn’t be required to practice, just show up for the game.
> > > > Many scoffed at the whole idea, especially because of the monies
> > > > they make, their retirement programs as well
> > > > as health care.
> > > >
> > > > Yet they had a point. We all have to give in order to get, in some
> > > > way.
> > > >
> > > > I also had many friends who owned their companies, who felt that
> > > > their employees were their ’slaves’ some actually disrespected
> > > > them, not openly, but did take advantage of them. I never respected
> > > > them, and it was embarrassing to be around them. But that is still
> > > > the way of men in today’s
> > > > world. That is why there were some good owners and bad owners.
> > > > Biblically speaking under the Jewish Covenant, there were
> > > > provisions made for people so as to be able to feed their families,
> > > > fairly and squarely. But those with the
> > > > mindset of harsh slavery practices by evil men put all slavery into
> > > > that one mindset box, which is unfair. A lot of America was made up
> > > > of white slaves and their families, who for the sake of freedom and
> > > > the free ride via ship, into this country gave up 5-10 years of
> > > > their life just to get here, and be able to build their own farms
> > > > and or businesses once released of their obligations.
> > > >
> > > > Would you have denied these people the opportunity to live and not
> > > > die?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
> > > > > it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
> > > >
> > > > The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world?
> > > > What about pimps and their women?
> > > > What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the
> > > > dole? People that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What about
> > > > the countries controlled
> > > > by Dictators?
> > > >
> > > > My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
> > > they can't be , slavery is illegal everywhere
> >
> > Then you deceive yourself. People have been arrested here in the USA,
> > this century for slavery.
>
> You missed the point.
>
> He said slavery is illegal
> everywhere and he is right. The
> fact that it may be practiced
> in isolated places doesn't change
> that.

On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote
(in article <lbi6acFf23cU2@mid.individual.net>):

> On Mon, 27 May 2024 09:09:18 +1000, In the Name of Jesus wrote:
>
> > On 27/05/2024 4:02 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
> > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:45:49 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
> > > <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 26/05/2024 5:01 pm, Maximus wrote:
> > > > > Robert wrote:
> > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
> > > > > > > > > > > > > rg:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > er.o rg:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > heart with enmity.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And God does nothing about that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because he hates humanity, could care
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less about humanity, is powerless to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which is it, do you think?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and eternal life with him.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The question was about Satan.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Why does God permit him to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > "kill and destroy”?
> > > > > > > > > > > > Man did,
> > > > > > > > > > > __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > __God is powerless to stop Satan
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > __God doesn't care either way
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Which is it?
> > > > > > > > > > None of them.
> > > > > > > > > So God is NOT incontrol of
> > > > > > > > > everything that happens.
> > > > > > > > There are other options that you are not aware of.
> > > > > > > Such as........?
> > > > > > Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So much for the Divine Plan.....
> > > > > > > > The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
> > > > > > > Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
> > > > > > > and tell us how children dying of cancer
> > > > > > > are part of a "Divine Plan".
> > > > > > What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for
> > > > > > these
> > > > > > things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The destroyer/
> > > > >
> > > > > I think you make this stuff up as you go along. you claim God created
> > > > > everything, now you say Satan created cancer.
> > > >
> > > > That is a valid point.
> > >
> > > Why would God allow Satan to create cancer?
> >
> > Indeed, why did you bring cancer upon yourself?
>
> That's not what the Bible says.
>
> Deuteronomy 28
>
> 27 The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods,
> and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.
> 28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of
> heart:
>
> ...and so forth.
>
> (Of course, God wouldn't actually do that -- it's just the
> evolutionary mechanism in nature.)

He did do that, and that was part of what Israel agreed to should they not
walk properly unto the Lord.
It is a full part of the Blessing for those that follow the Law, and the
Curses that are for those who do not.

This was not for the Gentile as they were not under the covenant of Sin and
Death.

They voted for it. Jesus undid that by his death and resurrection.

Your point is out of context, especially in regards to cancer.

Because of people like yourself and your false decrees, people should
investigate the truth for themselves, and the story pole of truth in writing
are the scriptures.

On May 26, 2024, pursent100@gmail.com wrote
(in article<ybucnSJl7o6mec77nZ2dnZfqnPhh4p2d@giganews.com>):

> Creon wrote:
> > On Mon, 27 May 2024 09:09:18 +1000, In the Name of Jesus wrote:
> >
> > > On 27/05/2024 4:02 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
> > > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:45:49 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
> > > > <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 26/05/2024 5:01 pm, Maximus wrote:
> > > > > > Robert wrote:
> > > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > rg:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > er.o rg:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > heart with enmity.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And God does nothing about that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because he hates humanity, could care
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less about humanity, is powerless to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which is it, do you think?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and eternal life with him.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The question was about Satan.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why does God permit him to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "kill and destroy”?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Man did,
> > > > > > > > > > > > __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > __God is powerless to stop Satan
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > __God doesn't care either way
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Which is it?
> > > > > > > > > > > None of them.
> > > > > > > > > > So God is NOT incontrol of
> > > > > > > > > > everything that happens.
> > > > > > > > > There are other options that you are not aware of.
> > > > > > > > Such as........?
> > > > > > > Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So much for the Divine Plan.....
> > > > > > > > > The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
> > > > > > > > Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
> > > > > > > > and tell us how children dying of cancer
> > > > > > > > are part of a "Divine Plan".
> > > > > > > What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for
> > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The destroyer/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think you make this stuff up as you go along. you claim God created
> > > > > > everything, now you say Satan created cancer.
> > > > >
> > > > > That is a valid point.
> > > >
> > > > Why would God allow Satan to create cancer?
> > >
> > > Indeed, why did you bring cancer upon yourself?
> >
> > That's not what the Bible says.
> >
> > Deuteronomy 28
> >
> > 27 The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods,
> > and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.
> > 28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment
> > of
> > heart:
> >
> > ...and so forth.
> >
> > (Of course, God wouldn't actually do that -- it's just the
> > evolutionary mechanism in nature.)
> wasn't that written 2,000 years agi

No, it was much longer than that, and it was to the Israelites, not the rest
of the nations as they did not sign the contract of the covenant of Law.
Where is your honesty? Why argue from a standpoint of ignorance?

On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
(in article <XnsB17ED1D306A93629555@185.151.15.190>):

> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> news:0001HW.2C040E2200021B7730EE6438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> > (in article<hmd75jdlcsh5v6qddb0l4jqct32ohkj4vj@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > Robert wrote:
> > > > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> > > > > Robert wrote:
> > > > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
> > > > > > > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious
> > > > > > > > > notions there's no telling were it will lead. that's why
> > > > > > > > > I say embracing religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ''
> > > > > > > > The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They
> > > > > > > > are directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the
> > > > > > > > heart, as even on Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of
> > > > > > > > transfiguration. Nothing can be superior to these
> > > > > > > > instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
> > > > > > > > the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will
> > > > > > > > authority. It can never contradict these counselors, and
> > > > > > > > yet claim obedience. What God has made cannot be unmade by
> > > > > > > > any power short of his own; so nothing arbitrary or
> > > > > > > > capricious can ever become binding on reason and
> > > > > > > > conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it
> > > > > > > > may. One chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring
> > > > > > > > natural morality and natural religion to their original and
> > > > > > > > proper place,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First you need to know what you are talking about, and
> > > > > > understand without throwing shade.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a
> > > > > > bad side which
> > > > > > left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
> > > > > > Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
> > > > > > Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a
> > > > > > place for it. Murder in any form is just as evil.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
> > > > > > > will not be freed at the end of six years as the
> > > > > > > men are.
> > > > > > > Exodus 21:7-11
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of
> > > > > > slavery most think of as overblown by evil people. This was a
> > > > > > willing indenture, like when
> > > > > > you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for
> > > > > > a shorter time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer
> > > > > > than the years that the
> > > > > > Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more
> > > > > > complicated topic that this brief explanation, and yes, I know
> > > > > > that most people do not get it.
> > > > > > But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to
> > > > > > feed and clothe
> > > > > > their families instead of opting to die prematurely of
> > > > > > starvation or freeze
> > > > > > to death. This was also common in the early days of America
> > > > > > regardless of race. Even in the biblical times many
> > > > > > “slaves” could buy back their freedom from the monies
> > > > > > earned for their work. Some never opted out, content
> > > > > > to work for their living and get a little spending money on top
> > > > > > of all the other benefits provided them. Bigots will never
> > > > > > understand what I am saying,
> > > > > > and they would be the same type of people who would treat their
> > > > > > slaves poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh
> > > > > > words and bad attitudes.
> > > > >
> > > > > So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the various
> > > > meanings for the one English word called slavery.
> > >
> > > No, there aren't "various meanings" for slavery. A slave
> > > is a person who is owned by another person, a practice
> > > which you obviously condone.
> >
> > https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/
> >
> > https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/modern-slavery/
> >
> > https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/slavery-uk/
> >
> > None of this has to do with religions.
> >
> > > > Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and
> > > > don’t’s of your life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do they
> > > > dangle in front of you, what actual freedoms do you have to keep on
> > > > being an employee. Think about it.
> > >
> > > Pure hyperbole. False equivalence.
> >
> > What makes you think so? Too tired to think, or are you just another
> > frog in a pot of boiling water.
> > >
> > >
> > > > A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar paid
> > > > football players who made a point out of their slavery by the white
> > > > man, and what they
> > >
> > > That's MX-stupid.
> >
> > Nevertheless it was well stated in the news.
> > >
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > > If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
> > > > > it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
> > > >
> > > > The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world?
> > > > What about pimps and their women?
> > > > What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the
> > > > dole? People that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What about
> > > > the countries controlled by Dictators?
> > > >
> > > > My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
> > >
> > > I'll take that as a "yes slavery is still perfectly
> > > justified because political prisoners in Red China are
> > > forced to make plastic toys for Happy Meals."
> >
> > All forms of slavery are NOT justified, never said or intimidated that
> > it is. You just blew your cred's irretrievably also showed an
> > inability to reason.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Did you not read Creon's post about Parker? You are
> > > Exhibit A for putting biblical dogma above conscience.
> >
> > I don’t remember seeing it much less reading it.
> > Your rationale, as well as his, is based on bias’, if that is your
> > conclusion.
> >
> > Historically there has been many forms of slavery, slave owners,
> > treatment of Slaves, and in the Bible, Joseph was a slave in Egypt yet
> > out of that he became ruler of all of Egypt ruling with the same
> > authority as the Pharaoh that was alive at the time.
>
> Hebrews kept as slaves = bad.
>
> Hebrews keeping slaves = good.
>
> Biblical situational ethics.

Now read the Bible and find out why the difference.
>
>
> When a man strikes his male or female slave with
> a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he
> shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives
> for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since
> the slave is his own property.
> Exodus 21:20-21

On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
(in article <XnsB17ED3D33470D629555@185.151.15.190>):

> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> news:0001HW.2C03CDBF00083AD330667038F@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > (in article <XnsB17E58E3D7CB4629555@185.151.15.190>):
> >
> > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > news:0001HW.2C02E95F0026A45830F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > >
> > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > (in article <XnsB17DD16CF5DC4629555@185.151.15.160>):
> > > >
> > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > news:0001HW.2C02686F00086C1630F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D868A876F629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C024E2C0002443930F47438F@news.eternal-september.o
> > > > > > > rg:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D5438AEAB8629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Orlando Enrique Fiol<ofiol@verizon.net> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > news:MPG.40bb0a01b04affd198968f@news.eternal-september.org
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In article<lb53k4Ffj3rU5@mid.individual.net>,
> > > > > > > > > > creon@creon.earth writes:
> > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't make any sense. Maybe it made sense to
> > > > > > > > > > > medievals.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It's because God loves us that he's given us
> > > > > > > > > > commandments which, when disobeyed, inevitably cause
> > > > > > > > > > pain and suffering to everyone involved. An unloving
> > > > > > > > > > God would have left us to figure out how to live with
> > > > > > > > > > one another by trial and error, with the strong doing
> > > > > > > > > > what they can and the weak doing what
> > > > > > > > > > they must.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Does God Himself obey the Ten Commandments?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > God as the man Jesus Christ lived and followed ALL the Law.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > God as God is a mass murderer.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You use the term ‘murderer’ falsely and you know it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why did he kill the first-born
> > > > > > > children in Egypt? They had done
> > > > > > > nothing to offend him.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is a list of things they had done to offend Him, most of
> > > > > > which you know from your past studies.
> > > > >
> > > > > Name them. Name just ONE thing the
> > > > > first born CHILDREN did to offend God.
> > > > > And don't for He killed all the first
> > > > > born animals as well. What had THEY
> > > > > done to offend your god?
> > > >
> > > > They hated their God, they hated the dependents of Abraham and
> > > > Isaac and enslaved them. IOW they mistreated the Chosen People.
> > >
> > > The children - and animals - of Egypt
> > > "hated their God"?
> >
> > The children were taught that just like the children of the Palestines
> > were and are taught to hate the Hebrew.
> >
> > The animals were owned by the families who suffered the same fate, and
> > all the animals of those who did as Moses instructed lived. They all
> > had the same choice, whether Egyptian or Hebrew.
> >
> > Just like today, you have the same choice as to follow the Lord or
> > reject him.
> > >
> > > Where does the Bible say THAT?
> >
> > You have the Bible, look it up.
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why did God kill Er? He had
> > > > > > > done nothing wrong.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > “And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the
> > > > > > LORD; and the LORD slew him.” (Gen 38:7, KJV)
> > > > >
> > > > > Bingo. What had Er DONE?
> > > >
> > > > Ask God, I just told you the answer. Bingo.
> > >
> > > Evasion noted. What had Er actually DONE?
> >
> > Does it matter the specific details? Who are you to second Guess the
> > one who set all things in motion, including you. You who has the free
> > will to oppose eternal life and select eternal death as your preferred
> > choice.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > > The same with his brother.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why did God kill everyone in
> > > > > > > Ye Floode? They broke no "godly"
> > > > > > > rules.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They were all followers of Satan. Given over to great Evil.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Bible doesn't say that.
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't you read your Bible?
> > > >
> > > > Gen 6:5 (AMPC) The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in
> > > > the earth, and that every imagination and intention of all human
> > > > thinking was only evil continually.
> > >
> > > So God killed all humanity for not
> > > obeying the laws he never gave them. And
> > > no chsnce of redemption, no option of
> > > forgiveness.
> >
> > The did have a choice,
>
> Where did God give them a choice?
>
> Cite the Bible passage.
>
> > many of Gods people told and warned the others,
> > they all listened with the exact same interest as you exhibit. Not
> > just you, but your wife, the others who claim to adhere to the
> > religion of atheism.
> >
> > You studied this too, at one time.
> > >
> > >
> > > And as for the "wickedness" of all
> > > the animals he killed, well, maybe you
> > > can explain that one as well.
> >
> > I already did, years ago.
>
> Where did God give the animals a choice?
>
> Cite the Bible passage.

Look at my answer to you in regards to that earlier this year, My answer
remains the same.

On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote
(in article <lbi7fdFf23cU3@mid.individual.net>):

> On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:41:06 -0700, Robert wrote:
>
> > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> > (in article<hmd75jdlcsh5v6qddb0l4jqct32ohkj4vj@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > Robert wrote:
> > > > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> > > > > Robert wrote:
> > > > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
> > > > > > > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious
> notions
> > > > > > > > > there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say
> embracing
> > > > > > > > > religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ''
> > > > > > > > The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
> > > > > > > > directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as
> even on
> > > > > > > > Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can
> be
> > > > > > > > superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with
> reason, utter
> > > > > > > > the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will
> authority. It
> > > > > > > > can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim
> obedience. What
> > > > > > > > God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of his own;
> so
> > > > > > > > nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on
> reason and
> > > > > > > > conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it
> may. One
> > > > > > > > chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring natural
> morality and
> > > > > > > > natural religion to their original and proper place,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First you need to know what you are talking about, and understand
> without
> > > > > > throwing shade.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a bad side
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
> > > > > > Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
> > > > > > Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a place
> for it.
> > > > > > Murder in any form is just as evil.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
> > > > > > > will not be freed at the end of six years as the
> > > > > > > men are.
> > > > > > > Exodus 21:7-11
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of
> slavery most
> > > > > > think of as overblown by evil people. This was a willing
> indenture, like
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for a
> shorter
> > > > > > time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer than the
> years that
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more
> complicated topic
> > > > > > that this brief explanation, and yes, I know that most people do
> not get
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > > But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to feed
> and
> > > > > > clothe
> > > > > > their families instead of opting to die prematurely of starvation
> or
> > > > > > freeze
> > > > > > to death. This was also common in the early days of America
> regardless of
> > > > > > race. Even in the biblical times many “slaves” could buy back
> their
> > > > > > freedom from the monies earned for their work. Some never opted
> out,
> > > > > > content
> > > > > > to work for their living and get a little spending money on top
> of all the
> > > > > > other benefits provided them. Bigots will never understand what I
> am
> > > > > > saying,
> > > > > > and they would be the same type of people who would treat their
> slaves
> > > > > > poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh words
> and bad
> > > > > > attitudes.
> > > > >
> > > > > So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the various
> meanings
> > > > for the one English word called slavery.
> > >
> > > No, there aren't "various meanings" for slavery. A slave
> > > is a person who is owned by another person, a practice
> > > which you obviously condone.
> >
> > https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/
> >
> > https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/modern-slavery/
> >
> > https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/slavery-uk/
> >
> > None of this has to do with religions.
> >
> > > > Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and don’t’s of
> your
> > > > life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do they dangle in front of you,
> what
> > > > actual freedoms do you have to keep on being an employee. Think about
> it.
> > >
> > > Pure hyperbole. False equivalence.
> >
> > What makes you think so? Too tired to think, or are you just another
> frog in
> > a pot of boiling water.
> > >
> > >
> > > > A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar paid
> football
> > > > players who made a point out of their slavery by the white man, and
> what
> > > > they
> > >
> > > That's MX-stupid.
> >
> > Nevertheless it was well stated in the news.
> > >
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > > If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
> > > > > it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
> > > >
> > > > The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world? What
> about
> > > > pimps and their women?
> > > > What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the dole?
> People
> > > > that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What about the countries
> > > > controlled by Dictators?
> > > >
> > > > My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
> > >
> > > I'll take that as a "yes slavery is still perfectly
> > > justified because political prisoners in Red China are
> > > forced to make plastic toys for Happy Meals."
> >
> > All forms of slavery are NOT justified, never said or intimidated that
> it is.
> > You just blew your cred's irretrievably also showed an inability to
> reason.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Did you not read Creon's post about Parker? You are
> > > Exhibit A for putting biblical dogma above conscience.
> >
> > I don’t remember seeing it much less reading it.
> > Your rationale, as well as his, is based on bias’, if that is your
> > conclusion.
>
> You didn't read my post quoting from Theodore Parker's sermon,
> "The Transient and Permanent in Christianity"?

Nope
>
> Shall I post it again? Even so, any scholar of theology should
> be aware of it, even if they don't agree with it. He was one
> of the guiding lights during the Great Awakening.

I am not a scholar of theology for that is the thinking of men.
>
> Theodore Parker was a staunch abolitionist, who gave refuge in
> his own home to escaped slaves. He argued with Southern preachers
> who used the Bible to justify slavery. Those two paragraphs of his
> outline just why one should not succumb to the error of Biblical
> inerrancy, concluding:
>
> =| Of the scriptures, then, it may be said, as it has been of
> the Sabbath: "The Bible was made for man, not man for
> the Bible." |=

On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
(in article <XnsB17ED4CF827E7629555@185.151.15.190>):

> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> news:0001HW.2C03D34E0009885C30667038F@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > (in article <XnsB17E59C916DC5629555@185.151.15.190>):
> >
> > > Maximus <gladiator@colosseum.rome> wrote in
> > > news:lbfl7fF5di8U1@mid.individual.net:
> > >
> > > > Robert wrote:
> > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > >
> > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september
> > > > > > > > .org:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-septe
> > > > > > > > > > mber.org:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-s
> > > > > > > > > > > > eptember.o rg:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there
> > > > > > > > > > > > > will be no peace. Satan comes to kill, and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > destroy, filling the heart
> > > > > > > > > > > > > with enmity.
> > > > > > > > > > > > And God does nothing about that
> > > > > > > > > > > > because he hates humanity, could care
> > > > > > > > > > > > less about humanity, is powerless to
> > > > > > > > > > > > prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Which is it, do you think?
> > > > > > > > > > > He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have
> > > > > > > > > > > peace, and eternal life with him.
> > > > > > > > > > The question was about Satan.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Why does God permit him to
> > > > > > > > > > "kill and destroy”?
> > > > > > > > > Man did,
> > > > > > > > __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > __God is powerless to stop Satan
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > __God doesn't care either way
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Which is it?
> > > > > > > None of them.
> > > > > > So God is NOT incontrol of
> > > > > > everything that happens.
> > > > > There are other options that you are not aware of.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So much for the Divine Plan.....
> > > > > The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
> > > > > We were given a heads up, 1,000’s of years ago. Yet you fully
> > > > > ignore it.
> > > >
> > > > how unfortunate that God relies on mere mortals such as you to tell
> > > > us his wishes. he can (supposedly) create a Universe but cannot
> > > > (for example) patch into our communication systems and send
> > > > messages directly.
> > >
> > > That is one of the most bizarre
> > > parts of Christianity.
> > >
> > > God wants to convey a message to
> > > all mankind, so he has one person
> > > preach it in a backwater desert
> > > province and makes no arrangement for
> > > this message to be even written down
> > > much less broadcast to the whole world.
> >
> > The Good News of God was preached and taught and lived by Jesus the
> > Christ, whose words are recorded in the NT and prophesied of in the
> > OT.
>
> Not one word of Jesus was written down
> until dacades after his death. Even Plato
> and Buddha - centuries before Jesus - made
> arrangements for scribes to record what they
> said. And the Son of God didn't?

That is such a dumb statement, I can hardly believe my eyes.
>
>
> Was His message just not important enough?

On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote
(in article <lbi8q3Ff23cU5@mid.individual.net>):

> On Sun, 26 May 2024 18:39:06 -0700, % wrote:
>
> > Creon wrote:
> > > > Indeed, why did you bring cancer upon yourself?
> > >
> > > That's not what the Bible says.
> > >
> > > Deuteronomy 28
> > >
> > > 27 The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the
> > > emerods,
> > > and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.
> > > 28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and
> > > astonishment of
> > > heart:
> > >
> > > ...and so forth.
> > >
> > > (Of course, God wouldn't actually do that -- it's just the evolutionary
> > > mechanism in nature.)
> > wasn't that written 2,000 years agi
>
> More than that -- Deuteronomy was written in pieces
> dating several hundred years BCE.

Incorrect.

On Sun, 26 May 2024 20:02:08 -0700, Robert wrote:

> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> (in article <XnsB17ED3D33470D629555@185.151.15.190>):
>
>> Where did God give the animals a choice?
>>
>> Cite the Bible passage.
>
> Look at my answer to you in regards to that earlier this year, My answer
> remains the same.

The answer is:

The Noatic flood is clearly a myth about God, because we know that
if there is a loving God, He would not kill all the babies and
puppies and kittens, etc., in the world. In fact, even suggesting that
God would do such a thing is a _slander_ against God.

We also know that cramming all the land animals onto a big boat
to survive a flood is nothing more than a fantasy.

We also know there is no evidence of a world-wide flood, in any event.

Bibidolatrous online preachers tie themselves up in knots with
their defenses of biblical inerrancy.

--
-c

On Sun, 26 May 2024 20:24:59 -0700, Robert wrote:

> On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote (in article
> <lbi8q3Ff23cU5@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 18:39:06 -0700, % wrote:
>>
>> > Creon wrote:
>> > > > Indeed, why did you bring cancer upon yourself?
>> > >
>> > > That's not what the Bible says.
>> > >
>> > > Deuteronomy 28
>> > >
>> > > 27 The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the
>> > > emerods,
>> > > and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be
>> > > healed.
>> > > 28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and
>> > > astonishment of heart:
>> > >
>> > > ...and so forth.
>> > >
>> > > (Of course, God wouldn't actually do that -- it's just the
>> > > evolutionary mechanism in nature.)
>> > wasn't that written 2,000 years agi
>>
>> More than that -- Deuteronomy was written in pieces dating several
>> hundred years BCE.
>
> Incorrect.

Yes, you are.

But maybe I'm being too hasty. Let's see your thesis. I'm
very curious why you think you know better than the
established scholars.

"...most scholars have accepted that this portion [ the earliest -c ] of
the book was composed in Jerusalem in the 7th century BC in the context of
religious reforms advanced by King Hezekiah (reigned c. 716–687 BC),[19]
[20]."[. . .]

[19] Miller, James Maxwell; Hayes, John Haralson (1986). A History of
Ancient Israel and Judah. Philadelphia: The Westminster Press. ISBN
978-0-664-21262-9.

[20] https://www.google.com/books/edition/Deuteronomy/ATDWInu5VCwC?
hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PR7&printsec=frontcover

I thought you knew your Bible? Maybe you should learn more about it. At
that last link, you can go read an actual scholarly dissection of
Deuteronomy. (Isn't the Net wonderful?)

--
-c

Robert wrote:
> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> (in article <XnsB17ED4CF827E7629555@185.151.15.190>):
>
>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> news:0001HW.2C03D34E0009885C30667038F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>> (in article <XnsB17E59C916DC5629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>
>>>> Maximus <gladiator@colosseum.rome> wrote in
>>>> news:lbfl7fF5di8U1@mid.individual.net:
>>>>
>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september
>>>>>>>>> .org:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-septe
>>>>>>>>>>> mber.org:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-s
>>>>>>>>>>>>> eptember.o rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will be no peace. Satan comes to kill, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy, filling the heart
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with enmity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have
>>>>>>>>>>>> peace, and eternal life with him.
>>>>>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Which is it?
>>>>>>>> None of them.
>>>>>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>>>>>> everything that happens.
>>>>>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>>>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>>>>>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>>>>> We were given a heads up, 1,000’s of years ago. Yet you fully
>>>>>> ignore it.
>>>>> how unfortunate that God relies on mere mortals such as you to tell
>>>>> us his wishes. he can (supposedly) create a Universe but cannot
>>>>> (for example) patch into our communication systems and send
>>>>> messages directly.
>>>> That is one of the most bizarre
>>>> parts of Christianity.
>>>>
>>>> God wants to convey a message to
>>>> all mankind, so he has one person
>>>> preach it in a backwater desert
>>>> province and makes no arrangement for
>>>> this message to be even written down
>>>> much less broadcast to the whole world.
>>> The Good News of God was preached and taught and lived by Jesus the
>>> Christ, whose words are recorded in the NT and prophesied of in the
>>> OT.
>> Not one word of Jesus was written down
>> until dacades after his death. Even Plato
>> and Buddha - centuries before Jesus - made
>> arrangements for scribes to record what they
>> said. And the Son of God didn't?
> That is such a dumb statement, I can hardly believe my eyes.

explain why. if there's a God who had a message for mankind so important
that our eternal destiny depended on it, why would what he wanted us to
know not be written precisely ? he did it with the 10 commandments,
according to your belief. why not in Jesus' time? we do not have one
word recorded by Jesus anywhere. (that we know of.) it beggars belief
that the message would be entrusted to hearsay decades after the events.

>>
>> Was His message just not important enough?
>>

that is the most logical conclusion

--
“Atheism is the birth right of all human, remember that!”- hhyapster 7.4.23

"Christian beliefs fail against reason, facts, and knowledge"

"Religion is not about truth, it's about lifestyle"

"God is a convenient explanation for what man does not understand.
The less that's inexplicable, the less need for a 'God' explanation."

"The problem with theism is that it never remains within
the realm of belief, but invariably proceeds to assertion"

On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote
(in article <lbid2pFf23cU6@mid.individual.net>):

> On Sun, 26 May 2024 20:02:08 -0700, Robert wrote:
>
> > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > (in article <XnsB17ED3D33470D629555@185.151.15.190>):
> >
> > > Where did God give the animals a choice?
> > >
> > > Cite the Bible passage.
> >
> > Look at my answer to you in regards to that earlier this year, My answer
> > remains the same.
>
> The answer is:
>
> The Noatic flood is clearly a myth about God, because we know that
> if there is a loving God, He would not kill all the babies and
> puppies and kittens, etc., in the world. In fact, even suggesting that
> God would do such a thing is a _slander_ against God.
Gen 6:5-8 (KJV)

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that
every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved
him at his heart.

7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of
the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the
air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD

God said otherwise.

..

>
> We also know that cramming all the land animals onto a big boat
> to survive a flood is nothing more than a fantasy.

Then you are scientifically limited in understanding.
>
> We also know there is no evidence of a world-wide flood, in any event.

There are sea shells, etc in the tops of the highest mountains. The half life
of the earths gravitational field shows the interruption. And there are
numerous other evidences. All of which I have shown in this group many many
years ago. Plus, I believe the word of God in all such matters.
>
>
> Bibidolatrous online preachers tie themselves up in knots with
> their defenses of biblical inerrancy.

For this reason many should go back to the original languages to see what it
really says, and then retranslated it into todays English understandings, but
far better than that is to listen to the Holy Spirit who will lead those that
walk in the spirit of God into truth and understanding, and what could be
better than getting the word of God from the source of it all.

On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote
(in article <lbie4pFf23cU7@mid.individual.net>):

> On Sun, 26 May 2024 20:24:59 -0700, Robert wrote:
>
> > On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote (in article
> > <lbi8q3Ff23cU5@mid.individual.net>):
> >
> > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 18:39:06 -0700, % wrote:
> > >
> > > > Creon wrote:
> > > > > > Indeed, why did you bring cancer upon yourself?
> > > > >
> > > > > That's not what the Bible says.
> > > > >
> > > > > Deuteronomy 28
> > > > >
> > > > > 27 The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the
> > > > > emerods,
> > > > > and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be
> > > > > healed.
> > > > > 28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and
> > > > > astonishment of heart:
> > > > >
> > > > > ...and so forth.
> > > > >
> > > > > (Of course, God wouldn't actually do that -- it's just the
> > > > > evolutionary mechanism in nature.)
> > > > wasn't that written 2,000 years agi
> > >
> > > More than that -- Deuteronomy was written in pieces dating several
> > > hundred years BCE.
> >
> > Incorrect.
>
> Yes, you are.

Nope.
>
> But maybe I'm being too hasty. Let's see your thesis. I'm
> very curious why you think you know better than the
> established scholars.

O have no thesis on this or any topic of the Lord.

Date and Place: Written about 1645 B.C. in the plains of Moab by Jordan near
Jericho, just before the entrance into Canaan (Deu 1:5; Deu 34:1-12).

Author: Moses, the lawgiver and leader of Israel.

2024 -1645 = 3669 years ago.
>
>
> "...most scholars have accepted that this portion [ the earliest -c ] of
> the book was composed in Jerusalem in the 7th century BC in the context of
> religious reforms advanced by King Hezekiah (reigned c. 716–687 BC),[19]
> [20]."[. . .]
>
> [19] Miller, James Maxwell; Hayes, John Haralson (1986). A History of
> Ancient Israel and Judah. Philadelphia: The Westminster Press. ISBN
> 978-0-664-21262-9.
>
> [20] https://www.google.com/books/edition/Deuteronomy/ATDWInu5VCwC?
> hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PR7&printsec=frontcover
>
> I thought you knew your Bible? Maybe you should learn more about it. At
> that last link, you can go read an actual scholarly dissection of
> Deuteronomy. (Isn't the Net wonderful?)

God is far better.

On May 27, 2024, Maximus wrote
(in article <lbiqcvFjoekU1@mid.individual.net>):

> Robert wrote:
> > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > (in article <XnsB17ED4CF827E7629555@185.151.15.190>):
> >
> > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > news:0001HW.2C03D34E0009885C30667038F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > >
> > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > (in article <XnsB17E59C916DC5629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > >
> > > > > Maximus <gladiator@colosseum.rome> wrote in
> > > > > news:lbfl7fF5di8U1@mid.individual.net:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Robert wrote:
> > > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september
> > > > > > > > > > .org:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-septe
> > > > > > > > > > > > mber.org:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-s
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > eptember.o rg:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will be no peace. Satan comes to kill, and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > destroy, filling the heart
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with enmity.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > And God does nothing about that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > because he hates humanity, could care
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > less about humanity, is powerless to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which is it, do you think?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have
> > > > > > > > > > > > > peace, and eternal life with him.
> > > > > > > > > > > > The question was about Satan.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Why does God permit him to
> > > > > > > > > > > > "kill and destroy”?
> > > > > > > > > > > Man did,
> > > > > > > > > > __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > __God is powerless to stop Satan
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > __God doesn't care either way
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Which is it?
> > > > > > > > > None of them.
> > > > > > > > So God is NOT incontrol of
> > > > > > > > everything that happens.
> > > > > > > There are other options that you are not aware of.
> > > > > > > > So much for the Divine Plan.....
> > > > > > > The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
> > > > > > > We were given a heads up, 1,000’s of years ago. Yet you fully
> > > > > > > ignore it.
> > > > > > how unfortunate that God relies on mere mortals such as you to tell
> > > > > > us his wishes. he can (supposedly) create a Universe but cannot
> > > > > > (for example) patch into our communication systems and send
> > > > > > messages directly.
> > > > > That is one of the most bizarre
> > > > > parts of Christianity.
> > > > >
> > > > > God wants to convey a message to
> > > > > all mankind, so he has one person
> > > > > preach it in a backwater desert
> > > > > province and makes no arrangement for
> > > > > this message to be even written down
> > > > > much less broadcast to the whole world.
> > > > The Good News of God was preached and taught and lived by Jesus the
> > > > Christ, whose words are recorded in the NT and prophesied of in the
> > > > OT.
> > > Not one word of Jesus was written down
> > > until dacades after his death. Even Plato
> > > and Buddha - centuries before Jesus - made
> > > arrangements for scribes to record what they
> > > said. And the Son of God didn't?
> > That is such a dumb statement, I can hardly believe my eyes.
>
> explain why. if there's a God who had a message for mankind so important
> that our eternal destiny depended on it, why would what he wanted us to
> know not be written precisely ? he did it with the 10 commandments,
> according to your belief. why not in Jesus' time? we do not have one
> word recorded by Jesus anywhere. (that we know of.) it beggars belief
> that the message would be entrusted to hearsay decades after the events.

Read a red letter edition of the Bible to see the words of Jesus that was
recorded, however, the red letter editions often miss ALL of what Jesus
actually spoke. And besides that, the words that Jesus spoke were the words
His Heavenly Father gave him to speak, and all scripture comes from the
Father 1 Tim 3:16 IIRC.
>
>
> > >
> > > Was His message just not important enough?
>
> that is the most logical conclusion

You will have full proof and truth upon your death.

"Maximus" wrote in message news:lbi996Fh9mfU2@mid.individual.net...

> anyone can get a disease. christians get diseases and die.
> sickness has nothing to do with being xtain or not.

There are health principles in the Bible, which
if followed,.......would prevent many a disease.

" He said, “If thou wilt diligently hearken to the
voice of the Lord thy God, and wilt do that
which is right in His sight,

"and wilt give ear to His commandments and
keep all His statutes, I will put none of these
diseases upon thee which I have brought upon
the Egyptians; for I am the Lord that healeth
thee.” ~ Exodus 15:26

Robert wrote:
> On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote
> (in article <lbid2pFf23cU6@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 20:02:08 -0700, Robert wrote:
>>
>>> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>> (in article <XnsB17ED3D33470D629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>
>>>> Where did God give the animals a choice?
>>>>
>>>> Cite the Bible passage.
>>> Look at my answer to you in regards to that earlier this year, My answer
>>> remains the same.
>> The answer is:
>>
>> The Noatic flood is clearly a myth about God, because we know that
>> if there is a loving God, He would not kill all the babies and
>> puppies and kittens, etc., in the world. In fact, even suggesting that
>> God would do such a thing is a _slander_ against God.
> Gen 6:5-8 (KJV)
>
> 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that
> every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
>
> 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved
> him at his heart.

pity he couldn't have foreseen that. pity he wasn't omniscient. oops!

>
> 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of
> the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the
> air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
>
> 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD
>
> God said otherwise.
>
>> We also know that cramming all the land animals onto a big boat
>> to survive a flood is nothing more than a fantasy.
> Then you are scientifically limited in understanding.

bullshit. it's an impossibility. you only say you believe it because you
have to because it's in the bible. if it wasn't a biblical story you
wouldn't give it a second thought.

>> We also know there is no evidence of a world-wide flood, in any event.
> There are sea shells, etc in the tops of the highest mountains. The half life
> of the earths gravitational field shows the interruption. And there are
> numerous other evidences. All of which I have shown in this group many many
> years ago. Plus, I believe the word of God in all such matters.

whoopdedoo! there are various civilizations that never experienced a
flood. that alone knocks you out of the ball game. it was simply a
regional flood that grew into the myth of a world wide flood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth

>>
>> Bibidolatrous online preachers tie themselves up in knots with
>> their defenses of biblical inerrancy.
> For this reason many should go back to the original languages to see what it
> really says, and then retranslated it into todays English understandings, but
> far better than that is to listen to the Holy Spirit who will lead those that
> walk in the spirit of God into truth and understanding, and what could be
> better than getting the word of God from the source of it all.

--
“Atheism is the birth right of all human, remember that!”- hhyapster 7.4.23

"Christian beliefs fail against reason, facts, and knowledge"

"Religion is not about truth, it's about lifestyle"

"God is a convenient explanation for what man does not understand.
The less that's inexplicable, the less need for a 'God' explanation."

"The problem with theism is that it never remains within
the realm of belief, but invariably proceeds to assertion"

Robert wrote:
> On May 27, 2024, Maximus wrote
> (in article <lbiqcvFjoekU1@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> Robert wrote:
>>> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>> (in article <XnsB17ED4CF827E7629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>
>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>> news:0001HW.2C03D34E0009885C30667038F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>
>>>>> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>> (in article <XnsB17E59C916DC5629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> Maximus <gladiator@colosseum.rome> wrote in
>>>>>> news:lbfl7fF5di8U1@mid.individual.net:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september
>>>>>>>>>>> .org:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-septe
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mber.org:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-s
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eptember.o rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will be no peace. Satan comes to kill, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy, filling the heart
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with enmity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peace, and eternal life with him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>>>>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it?
>>>>>>>>>> None of them.
>>>>>>>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>>>>>>>> everything that happens.
>>>>>>>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>>>>>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>>>>>>>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>>>>>>> We were given a heads up, 1,000’s of years ago. Yet you fully
>>>>>>>> ignore it.
>>>>>>> how unfortunate that God relies on mere mortals such as you to tell
>>>>>>> us his wishes. he can (supposedly) create a Universe but cannot
>>>>>>> (for example) patch into our communication systems and send
>>>>>>> messages directly.
>>>>>> That is one of the most bizarre
>>>>>> parts of Christianity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> God wants to convey a message to
>>>>>> all mankind, so he has one person
>>>>>> preach it in a backwater desert
>>>>>> province and makes no arrangement for
>>>>>> this message to be even written down
>>>>>> much less broadcast to the whole world.
>>>>> The Good News of God was preached and taught and lived by Jesus the
>>>>> Christ, whose words are recorded in the NT and prophesied of in the
>>>>> OT.
>>>> Not one word of Jesus was written down
>>>> until dacades after his death. Even Plato
>>>> and Buddha - centuries before Jesus - made
>>>> arrangements for scribes to record what they
>>>> said. And the Son of God didn't?
>>> That is such a dumb statement, I can hardly believe my eyes.
>> explain why. if there's a God who had a message for mankind so important
>> that our eternal destiny depended on it, why would what he wanted us to
>> know not be written precisely ? he did it with the 10 commandments,
>> according to your belief. why not in Jesus' time? we do not have one
>> word recorded by Jesus anywhere. (that we know of.) it beggars belief
>> that the message would be entrusted to hearsay decades after the events.
> Read a red letter edition of the Bible to see the words of Jesus that was
> recorded,

they're only words he's reported to have said. nothing written anywhere
by Jesus.

> however, the red letter editions often miss ALL of what Jesus
> actually spoke.

how would you know? as I said if Jesus had bothered to write down what
his message was, what it was god (supposedly) wanted us to know, all
this discussion and controversy would be avoided. there's no sound why a
god who had a message for mankind would not do that.

> And besides that, the words that Jesus spoke were the words
> His Heavenly Father gave him to speak, and all scripture comes from the
> Father 1 Tim 3:16 IIRC.
>>
>>>> Was His message just not important enough?
>> that is the most logical conclusion
> You will have full proof and truth upon your death.
>

I won't exist after my death, and neither will you, or anyone for that
matter, and you cannot prove otherwise.

--
“Atheism is the birth right of all human, remember that!”- hhyapster 7.4.23

"Christian beliefs fail against reason, facts, and knowledge"

"Religion is not about truth, it's about lifestyle"

"God is a convenient explanation for what man does not understand.
The less that's inexplicable, the less need for a 'God' explanation."

"The problem with theism is that it never remains within
the realm of belief, but invariably proceeds to assertion"

Robert wrote:
> On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote
> > On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:41:06 -0700, Robert wrote:
> > > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote

<snippety doo-dah>

> > > > Did you not read Creon's post about Parker? You are
> > > > Exhibit A for putting biblical dogma above conscience.
> > >
> > > I don’t remember seeing it much less reading it.
> > > Your rationale, as well as his, is based on bias’, if that is your
> > > conclusion.
> >
> > You didn't read my post quoting from Theodore Parker's sermon,
> > "The Transient and Permanent in Christianity"?
>
> Nope

That's remarkable, since you quoted part of it just
upthread.
Message-ID:
<0001HW.2C03C5A6000654E430667038F@news.eternal-september.org>

> > Shall I post it again? Even so, any scholar of theology should
> > be aware of it, even if they don't agree with it. He was one
> > of the guiding lights during the Great Awakening.
>
> I am not a scholar of theology for that is the thinking of men.

Nonsense. You live, breathe, and post theology.

> > Theodore Parker was a staunch abolitionist, who gave refuge in
> > his own home to escaped slaves. He argued with Southern preachers
> > who used the Bible to justify slavery. Those two paragraphs of his
> > outline just why one should not succumb to the error of Biblical
> > inerrancy, concluding:
> >
> > =| Of the scriptures, then, it may be said, as it has been of
> > the Sabbath: "The Bible was made for man, not man for
> > the Bible." |=
>
> I would agree with that understanding.

No you wouldn't. Otherwise you would admit that the
bible's acceptance of slavery is immoral, and that
literal acceptance of the Flood myth defies reason.

> > Why? Because:
> >
> > =| The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are directly
> > from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even on Horeb, or
> > Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be superior to these
> > instructors. |=
> >
> > > Would you rather a family starve to death rather than indenture
> > > themselves as a slave to survive poor economic times, droughts, etc,?
> >
> > *That* is your only solution to the problems you outline? _Slavery_?
>
> No, but the question remains.
> >
> > *That* is disgusting, and you are being absurd.
>
> Not any more than your thinking.
>
> What about all the people in America who show a sign, will work for food or
> money, and what about those in the times of the Great Depression who worked
> on farms for food and shelter, so their family could eat and had a dry place
> to sleep? Was that not servitude to another?

The key elements of slavery are ownership of a human, and
involuntary servitude. When people refer to "wage
slavery", that's just a metaphor. It isn't meant
literally. But you know that, so you are just weaseling.

No homeless vet is offering to sell himself for food. You
are being dishonest to suggest that.

You are on the wrong side, Robert, the side of evil.
At this point, reasonable people would stop digging.

<snip>

On 27/05/2024 10:29 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
> On Mon, 27 May 2024 09:09:18 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> On 27/05/2024 4:02 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
>>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:45:49 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 26/05/2024 5:01 pm, Maximus wrote:
>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> er.o rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart with enmity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and eternal life with him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>>>>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it?
>>>>>>>>>> None of them.
>>>>>>>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>>>>>>>> everything that happens.
>>>>>>>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>>>>> Such as........?
>>>>>> Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>>>>>>>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>>>>>> Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
>>>>>>> and tell us how children dying of cancer
>>>>>>> are part of a "Divine Plan".
>>>>>> What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for these
>>>>>> things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The destroyer/
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you make this stuff up as you go along. you claim God created
>>>>> everything, now you say Satan created cancer.
>>>>
>>>> That is a valid point.
>>>
>>> Why would God allow Satan to create cancer?
>>
>> Indeed, why did you bring cancer upon yourself?
>>
>> Why did you bring about pollution?
>>
>> Did you think you weren't going to reap what you sow?
>
> Not me, but the innocent children who get struck down with cancer. Are
> those children "reaping what they sow"?

Everything man does effects his neighbour, one way or another, children
and adults alike.

>> Also, see my reply to that Mitchell Holman fella.
>
> So if someone contracts a disease, it's always their fault? Should we
> abolish hospitals, since it's the patients' own fault that they're in
> there?

You keep things shallow to satisfy your ignorance, Vincent.

In the Name of Jesus

>>
>>
>>
>> In the Name of Jesus
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>> but those of us who know
>>>>> better know diseases are from a biological source, not from beings that
>>>>> don't exist
>>>>
>>>> But that is not a valid point.
>>>>
>>>> Why?
>>>>
>>>> Because things can't create themselves.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael Christ

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

Robert wrote:
> On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> > Robert wrote:
> > > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> > > > Robert wrote:
> > > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
> > > > > > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious notions
> > > > > > > > there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say embracing
> > > > > > > > religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ''
> > > > > > > The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
> > > > > > > directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even on
> > > > > > > Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be
> > > > > > > superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
> > > > > > > the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will authority. It
> > > > > > > can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim obedience. What
> > > > > > > God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of his own; so
> > > > > > > nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on reason and
> > > > > > > conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it may. One
> > > > > > > chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring natural morality and
> > > > > > > natural religion to their original and proper place,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
> > > > >
> > > > > First you need to know what you are talking about, and understand without
> > > > > throwing shade.
> > > > >
> > > > > All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a bad side
> > > > > which
> > > > > left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
> > > > > Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
> > > > > Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a place for it.
> > > > > Murder in any form is just as evil.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
> > > > > > will not be freed at the end of six years as the
> > > > > > men are.
> > > > > > Exodus 21:7-11
> > > > >
> > > > > This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of slavery most
> > > > > think of as overblown by evil people. This was a willing indenture, like
> > > > > when
> > > > > you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for a shorter
> > > > > time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer than the years that
> > > > > the
> > > > > Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more complicated topic
> > > > > that this brief explanation, and yes, I know that most people do not get
> > > > > it.
> > > > > But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to feed and
> > > > > clothe
> > > > > their families instead of opting to die prematurely of starvation or
> > > > > freeze
> > > > > to death. This was also common in the early days of America regardless of
> > > > > race. Even in the biblical times many “slaves” could buy back their
> > > > > freedom from the monies earned for their work. Some never opted out,
> > > > > content
> > > > > to work for their living and get a little spending money on top of all the
> > > > > other benefits provided them. Bigots will never understand what I am
> > > > > saying,
> > > > > and they would be the same type of people who would treat their slaves
> > > > > poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh words and bad
> > > > > attitudes.
> > > >
> > > > So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
> > >
> > > I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the various meanings
> > > for the one English word called slavery.
> >
> > No, there aren't "various meanings" for slavery. A slave
> > is a person who is owned by another person, a practice
> > which you obviously condone.
>
> https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/
>
> https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/modern-slavery/
>
> https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/slavery-uk/
>
> None of this has to do with religions.

It has everything to do with religion, since you are
defending the bible's acceptance of slavery.

> > > Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and don’t’s of your
> > > life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do they dangle in front of you, what
> > > actual freedoms do you have to keep on being an employee. Think about it.
> >
> > Pure hyperbole. False equivalence.
>
> What makes you think so? Too tired to think, or are you just another frog in
> a pot of boiling water.

You're being stupid again, and you know it. Voluntary
employment is not involuntary servitude.

> > > A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar paid football
> > > players who made a point out of their slavery by the white man, and what
> > > they
> >
> > That's MX-stupid.
>
> Nevertheless it was well stated in the news.

So what? If every media outlet covers the alleged
players' alleged claims, does that make them right?

Any NFL player is free to quit in the middle of first
down. There are zillions of kids chomping at the bit to
become NFL "slaves".

> > > > If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
> > > > it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
> > >
> > > The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world? What about
> > > pimps and their women?
> > > What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the dole? People
> > > that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What about the countries
> > > controlled by Dictators?
> > >
> > > My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
> >
> > I'll take that as a "yes slavery is still perfectly
> > justified because political prisoners in Red China are
> > forced to make plastic toys for Happy Meals."
>
> All forms of slavery are NOT justified, never said or intimidated that it is.
> You just blew your cred's irretrievably also showed an inability to reason.

You defended the bible's acceptance of slavery. So yeah,
you did intimate it's justified.

Robert, do you agree that slavery is immoral, and was
always immoral?

Yes or no.

> > Did you not read Creon's post about Parker? You are
> > Exhibit A for putting biblical dogma above conscience.
>
> I don’t remember seeing it much less reading it.

You quoted it above.

Feel silly much?

<snip>

On 27/05/2024 10:55 am, Robert wrote:
> On May 26, 2024, In the Name of Jesus wrote
> (in article <v30fku$3ldh5$4@dont-email.me>):
>
>> On 27/05/2024 5:36 am, Robert wrote:
>>> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>> (in article <XnsB17E56AA0EBED629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>
>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>> news:0001HW.2C02EAF60027039430F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>
>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>> (in article <XnsB17DD39B0FF3D629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0265C30007CBBC30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D856FD386629555@185.151.15.160>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024C150001C70430F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D53917EE6F629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In the Name of Jesus<michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> news:v2rn5e $2nfks$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/05/2024 11:28 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Christ<michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:v2r2jt$2gpfd$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24/05/2024 8:59 pm, Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Rod E." <dx7066801@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:v2oha2$1vb8l$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/22/2024 7:48 AM, Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christ<michaelmclean92910@outlook.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in news:v2jp4n$100ao$2@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22/05/2024 11:35 am, Mitchell Holman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:lb4tmqFfj3rU1@mid.individual.net:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 21 May 2024 17:16:47 -0500,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ChristRose wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and saving you from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eternal damnation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damnation doctrine is spiritual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terrorism.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One would do well not to doubt the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> salvific
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> powers of God Almighty...in this life
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or in any other He may have in store
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (signed)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a Universalist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Religion has actually convinced
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people that there's an invisible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> man living in the sky who watches
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything you do, every minute of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every day. And the invisible man
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has a special list of ten things he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not want you to do. And if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do any of these ten things, he has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a special place, full of fire and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smoke and burning and torture and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anguish, where he will send you to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> live and suffer and burn and choke
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and scream and cry forever and ever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'til the end of time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But He loves you!"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Carlin, Dec 23 2005
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snapshot of an ignorant fool.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ÂÂÂÂ The original post was right, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is spiritual terrorism.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ÂÂÂÂ "Do as I tell you or I will kill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ÂÂÂÂÂÂ - kidnapper
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ÂÂÂÂ "Believe as I tell you or suffer in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hell" ÂÂÂÂÂÂ - Christianity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the fear of suffering in hell is the basis of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Xtianity. without
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there would be no need for salvation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Conform or die? Sounds like the Catholic Church
>>>>>>>>>> speaking.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or the Protestant Church.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I should have no compassion on these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> witches; I should burn them all."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Martin Luther
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is more to following the rules than this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> People must be willing to live in peace together
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or there can be no peace for anyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Religions have never been able
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to live in peace together.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so true!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Snapshot of an ignorant fools."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet more moron sweepings statements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man has never been able to live in peace together.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Wasn't Ye Floode supposed to fix that?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Lord Jesus Christ fixes the person.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jim Jones, David Koresh, Jim Bakker,
>>>>>>>>>> every Pedophile Priest.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We have seen what people "fixed by
>>>>>>>>>> Jesus" are like, indeed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mat 7:15-17 (KJV)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's
>>>>>>>>> clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of
>>>>>>>>> thorns, or figs of thistles?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a
>>>>>>>>> corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can see here that there were such men in the time of Jesus,
>>>>>>>>> as he was the one speaking theses words, true of that time,
>>>>>>>>> true of this time and culminating with the time of the
>>>>>>>>> antichrist coming very soon, in the flesh. ATM the spirit of
>>>>>>>>> the antichrist is leading these people and has been since the
>>>>>>>>> days of the Apostles.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Look at the fruits these people gather. Like minded followers
>>>>>>>>> who speak as foul and vulgar as they do, or practice livings
>>>>>>>>> they do, all the while their leaders are taking advantage of
>>>>>>>>> them, people who are to follow their leader, what he says is
>>>>>>>>> truth, in spite of the fact that a lot of what they say is
>>>>>>>>> contrary to the truth, which can be verified by the story pole
>>>>>>>>> of the Bible. The Word of God.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mary Dyer was a follower of mid-wife and religious
>>>>>>>> activist Anne Marbury Hutchinson. Her views about
>>>>>>>> God and religion were considered heresy by the
>>>>>>>> Puritan religion In 1658, a law was passed banishing
>>>>>>>> Quakers under "pain of death." Mary Dyer was executed,
>>>>>>>> hanged for being a Quaker on June 1, 1660.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.womeninhistoryprograms.com/dyer.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is the legacy of the RCC doctrines that carried forward over
>>>>>>> the the fence of the Reformation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christians killing other Christians
>>>>>> for following the "wrong" Christianity.
>>>>>
>>>>> People calling themselves Christian does not make them one, and other
>>>>> who call people a christian, who are not, does not make the person a
>>>>> christian also. Many call others a christian just to slam them or put
>>>>> them in bad light before their fellows.
>>>>
>>>> Who are you to decide what
>>>> a Christian is?
>>
>> Robert Religion wrote:
>>> The word of God does. It describes the true believer and isolated them from
>>> the false pretenders, deluded in their minds and understandings.

On 27/05/2024 11:35 am, Creon wrote:
> On Mon, 27 May 2024 09:09:18 +1000, In the Name of Jesus wrote:
>
>> On 27/05/2024 4:02 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
>>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:45:49 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 26/05/2024 5:01 pm, Maximus wrote:
>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> er.o rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart with enmity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and eternal life with him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>>>>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it?
>>>>>>>>>> None of them.
>>>>>>>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>>>>>>>> everything that happens.
>>>>>>>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>>>>> Such as........?
>>>>>> Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>>>>>>>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>>>>>> Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
>>>>>>> and tell us how children dying of cancer
>>>>>>> are part of a "Divine Plan".
>>>>>> What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for these
>>>>>> things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The destroyer/
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you make this stuff up as you go along. you claim God created
>>>>> everything, now you say Satan created cancer.
>>>>
>>>> That is a valid point.

Vincent wrote:
>>> Why would God allow Satan to create cancer?

In the Name of Jesus wrote:
>> Indeed, why did you bring cancer upon yourself?

>> Why did you bring about pollution?

>> Did you think you weren't going to reap what you sow?

Creon wrote:
> That's not what the Bible says.
>
> Deuteronomy 28
>
> 27 The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods,
> and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.
> 28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of
> heart:
>
> ...and so forth.

Then is God evil and does things without good reason?

> (Of course, God wouldn't actually do that -- it's just the
> evolutionary mechanism in nature.)

Then the evolutionary mechanism in nature is your God.

In the Name of Jesus

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

Robert wrote:
> On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote
<snip>
> > We also know that cramming all the land animals onto a big boat
> > to survive a flood is nothing more than a fantasy.
>
> Then you are scientifically limited in understanding.

Lol.

> > We also know there is no evidence of a world-wide flood, in any event.
>
> There are sea shells, etc in the tops of the highest mountains.

The reason for this is well known. You've surely been
told before. Hint: it wasn't a flood.

How do you explain the high mountains that don't have any
marine fossils? Or lowlands without marine fossils, for
that matter? Look that up in your bible.

> The half life
> of the earths gravitational field shows the interruption.

You mean the earth's magnetic field. This is a standard
creationist canard. The geomagnetic field is not in
long-term decay and it wasn't "interrupted" by a flood.

> And there are
> numerous other evidences. All of which I have shown in this group many many
> years ago.

Lying for Jesus isn't evidence.

> Plus, I believe the word of God in all such matters.

Now there's the real heart of your problem.

<snip>

On 27/05/2024 11:43 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in news:v30ev1
> $3ldh6$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 26/05/2024 11:37 pm, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
>>> news:v2upbe$3aomp$2@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> On 26/05/2024 5:01 pm, Maximus wrote:
>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-
> september.org:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-
> september.org
>>>>>>>>>>> :
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-
> september.o
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> er.o rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart with enmity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and eternal life with him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>>>>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it?
>>>>>>>>>> None of them.
>>>>>>>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>>>>>>>> everything that happens.
>>>>>>>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>>>>> Such as........?
>>>>>> Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>>>>>>>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>>>>>> Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
>>>>>>> and tell us how children dying of cancer
>>>>>>> are part of a "Divine Plan".
>>>>>> What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for
>>>>>> these things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The
> destroyer/
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you make this stuff up as you go along. you claim God
> created
>>>>> everything, now you say Satan created cancer.
>>>>
>>>> That is a valid point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> but those of us who know
>>>>> better know diseases are from a biological source, not from beings
>>>>> that don't exist
>>>>
>>>> But that is not a valid point.
>>>>
>>>> Why?
>>>>
>>>> Because things can't create themselves.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So all diseases were created by God.
>>>
>>> Why?
>>
>> You have been told way, you know why, and many times it has been
>> recounted, but you do not care.
>>
>> You get a choice, disease (your own ways) or Him.
>
>
> Evasion noted.
>
> Who created diseases?

God created everything, including you, and life and death.

You get a choice, disease (your own ways) or Him.

You made your choice when you chose to set yourself above Him.

In the Name of Jesus

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
news:0001HW.2C042A650008BB5D30EE6438F@news.eternal-september.org:

> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> (in article <XnsB17ED0FB44B1B629555@185.151.15.190>):
>
>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> news:0001HW.2C0406BF0000606B30EE6438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>> > On May 26, 2024, pursent100@gmail.com wrote
>> > (in article<rcycnY5V4p1DKc77nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com>):
>> >
>> > > Robert wrote:
>> > > > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
>> > > > (in article<rn975jdrh5gbuiocad2jv49a7bm978vqm1@4ax.com>):
>> > > >
>> > > > > Robert wrote:
>> > > > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > > > > > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
>> > > > > > > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > if we abandon fact based thought in favor of
>> > > > > > > > > religious notions there's no telling were it will
>> > > > > > > > > lead. that's why I say embracing religious ideas is
>> > > > > > > > > perilous and unwise.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > ''
>> > > > > > > > The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason.
>> > > > > > > > They are directly from God, God's voice heard plainly
>> > > > > > > > in the heart, as even on Horeb, or Sinai or the mount
>> > > > > > > > of transfiguration. Nothing can be superior to these
>> > > > > > > > instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
>> > > > > > > > the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will
>> > > > > > > > authority. It can never contradict these counselors,
>> > > > > > > > and yet claim obedience. What God has made cannot be
>> > > > > > > > unmade by any power short of his own; so nothing
>> > > > > > > > arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on
>> > > > > > > > reason and conscience, let it be taught on what
>> > > > > > > > external authority it may. One chief merit of
>> > > > > > > > Christianity consists in restoring natural morality and
>> > > > > > > > natural religion to their original and
>> > > > > > > > proper place,
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural
>> > > > > > > morality"?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > First you need to know what you are talking about, and
>> > > > > > understand without throwing shade.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is
>> > > > > > a bad side which
>> > > > > > left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
>> > > > > > Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
>> > > > > > Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a
>> > > > > > place for it. Murder in any form is just as evil.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
>> > > > > > > will not be freed at the end of six years as the
>> > > > > > > men are.
>> > > > > > > Exodus 21:7-11
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of
>> > > > > > slavery most think of as overblown by evil people. This was
>> > > > > > a willing indenture, like when
>> > > > > > you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be
>> > > > > > for a shorter time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no
>> > > > > > longer than the years that the
>> > > > > > Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more
>> > > > > > complicated topic that this brief explanation, and yes, I
>> > > > > > know that most people do not get it.
>> > > > > > But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order
>> > > > > > to feed and clothe
>> > > > > > their families instead of opting to die prematurely of
>> > > > > > starvation or freeze
>> > > > > > to death. This was also common in the early days of America
>> > > > > > regardless of race. Even in the biblical times many
>> > > > > > “slaves” could buy back their freedom from the monies
>> > > > > > earned for their work. Some never opted out, content
>> > > > > > to work for their living and get a little spending money on
>> > > > > > top of all the other benefits provided them. Bigots will
>> > > > > > never understand what I am saying,
>> > > > > > and they would be the same type of people who would treat
>> > > > > > their slaves poorly and beat them, like they do here with
>> > > > > > their harsh words and bad attitudes.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
>> > > >
>> > > > I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the
>> > > > various meanings for the one English word called slavery.
>> > > >
>> > > > Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and
>> > > > don’t’s of your life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do
>> > > > they dangle in front of you, what actual freedoms do you have
>> > > > to keep on being an employee. Think about it.
>> > > >
>> > > > A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar
>> > > > paid football players who made a point out of their slavery by
>> > > > the white man, and what they
>> > > > had to do whether they liked it or not in order to remain on
>> > > > the teams they were a part of. To them that was slavery, they
>> > > > shouldn’t be required to practice, just show up for the game.
>> > > > Many scoffed at the whole idea, especially because of the
>> > > > monies they make, their retirement programs as well
>> > > > as health care.
>> > > >
>> > > > Yet they had a point. We all have to give in order to get, in
>> > > > some way.
>> > > >
>> > > > I also had many friends who owned their companies, who felt
>> > > > that their employees were their ’slaves’ some actually
>> > > > disrespected them, not openly, but did take advantage of them.
>> > > > I never respected them, and it was embarrassing to be around
>> > > > them. But that is still the way of men in today’s
>> > > > world. That is why there were some good owners and bad owners.
>> > > > Biblically speaking under the Jewish Covenant, there were
>> > > > provisions made for people so as to be able to feed their
>> > > > families, fairly and squarely. But those with the
>> > > > mindset of harsh slavery practices by evil men put all slavery
>> > > > into that one mindset box, which is unfair. A lot of America
>> > > > was made up of white slaves and their families, who for the
>> > > > sake of freedom and the free ride via ship, into this country
>> > > > gave up 5-10 years of their life just to get here, and be able
>> > > > to build their own farms and or businesses once released of
>> > > > their obligations.
>> > > >
>> > > > Would you have denied these people the opportunity to live and
>> > > > not die?
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
>> > > > > it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
>> > > >
>> > > > The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world?
>> > > > What about pimps and their women?
>> > > > What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the
>> > > > dole? People that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What
>> > > > about the countries controlled
>> > > > by Dictators?
>> > > >
>> > > > My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
>> > > they can't be , slavery is illegal everywhere
>> >
>> > Then you deceive yourself. People have been arrested here in the
>> > USA, this century for slavery.
>>
>> You missed the point.
>>
>> He said slavery is illegal
>> everywhere and he is right. The
>> fact that it may be practiced
>> in isolated places doesn't change
>> that.
>
> https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-that-still
> -have- slavery
>
> Enjoy.