Robert wrote:
> On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> (in article<rn975jdrh5gbuiocad2jv49a7bm978vqm1@4ax.com>):
>
>> Robert wrote:
>>> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>> Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
>>>>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious notions
>>>>>> there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say embracing
>>>>>> religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
>>>>>
>>>>> ''
>>>>> The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
>>>>> directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even on
>>>>> Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be
>>>>> superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
>>>>> the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will authority. It
>>>>> can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim obedience. What
>>>>> God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of his own; so
>>>>> nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on reason and
>>>>> conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it may. One
>>>>> chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring natural morality and
>>>>> natural religion to their original and proper place,
>>>>
>>>> Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
>>>
>>> First you need to know what you are talking about, and understand without
>>> throwing shade.
>>>
>>> All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a bad side which
>>> left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
>>> Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
>>> Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a place for it.
>>> Murder in any form is just as evil.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
>>>> will not be freed at the end of six years as the
>>>> men are.
>>>> Exodus 21:7-11
>>>
>>> This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of slavery most
>>> think of as overblown by evil people. This was a willing indenture, like
>>> when
>>> you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for a shorter
>>> time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer than the years that the
>>> Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more complicated topic
>>> that this brief explanation, and yes, I know that most people do not get it.
>>> But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to feed and clothe
>>> their families instead of opting to die prematurely of starvation or freeze
>>> to death. This was also common in the early days of America regardless of
>>> race. Even in the biblical times many “slaves” could buy back their
>>> freedom from the monies earned for their work. Some never opted out, content
>>> to work for their living and get a little spending money on top of all the
>>> other benefits provided them. Bigots will never understand what I am saying,
>>> and they would be the same type of people who would treat their slaves
>>> poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh words and bad
>>> attitudes.
>>
>> So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
>
> I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the various meanings
> for the one English word called slavery.
>
> Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and don’t’s of your
> life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do they dangle in front of you, what
> actual freedoms do you have to keep on being an employee. Think about it.
>
> A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar paid football
> players who made a point out of their slavery by the white man, and what they
> had to do whether they liked it or not in order to remain on the teams they
> were a part of. To them that was slavery, they shouldn’t be required to
> practice, just show up for the game. Many scoffed at the whole idea,
> especially because of the monies they make, their retirement programs as well
> as health care.
>
> Yet they had a point. We all have to give in order to get, in some way.
>
> I also had many friends who owned their companies, who felt that their
> employees were their ’slaves’ some actually disrespected them, not
> openly, but did take advantage of them. I never respected them, and it was
> embarrassing to be around them. But that is still the way of men in today’s
> world. That is why there were some good owners and bad owners. Biblically
> speaking under the Jewish Covenant, there were provisions made for people so
> as to be able to feed their families, fairly and squarely. But those with the
> mindset of harsh slavery practices by evil men put all slavery into that one
> mindset box, which is unfair. A lot of America was made up of white slaves
> and their families, who for the sake of freedom and the free ride via ship,
> into this country gave up 5-10 years of their life just to get here, and be
> able to build their own farms and or businesses once released of their
> obligations.
>
> Would you have denied these people the opportunity to live and not die?
>
>>
>>
>> If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
>> it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
>
> The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world? What about
> pimps and their women?
> What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the dole? People
> that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What about the countries controlled
> by Dictators?
>
> My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
>
>
they can't be , slavery is illegal everywhere

Robert wrote:
> On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> > Robert wrote:
> > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
> > > > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious notions
> > > > > > there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say embracing
> > > > > > religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
> > > > >
> > > > > ''
> > > > > The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
> > > > > directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even on
> > > > > Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be
> > > > > superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
> > > > > the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will authority. It
> > > > > can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim obedience. What
> > > > > God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of his own; so
> > > > > nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on reason and
> > > > > conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it may. One
> > > > > chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring natural morality and
> > > > > natural religion to their original and proper place,
> > > >
> > > > Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
> > >
> > > First you need to know what you are talking about, and understand without
> > > throwing shade.
> > >
> > > All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a bad side which
> > > left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
> > > Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
> > > Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a place for it.
> > > Murder in any form is just as evil.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
> > > > will not be freed at the end of six years as the
> > > > men are.
> > > > Exodus 21:7-11
> > >
> > > This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of slavery most
> > > think of as overblown by evil people. This was a willing indenture, like
> > > when
> > > you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for a shorter
> > > time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer than the years that the
> > > Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more complicated topic
> > > that this brief explanation, and yes, I know that most people do not get it.
> > > But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to feed and clothe
> > > their families instead of opting to die prematurely of starvation or freeze
> > > to death. This was also common in the early days of America regardless of
> > > race. Even in the biblical times many “slaves” could buy back their
> > > freedom from the monies earned for their work. Some never opted out, content
> > > to work for their living and get a little spending money on top of all the
> > > other benefits provided them. Bigots will never understand what I am saying,
> > > and they would be the same type of people who would treat their slaves
> > > poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh words and bad
> > > attitudes.
> >
> > So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
>
> I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the various meanings
> for the one English word called slavery.

No, there aren't "various meanings" for slavery. A slave
is a person who is owned by another person, a practice
which you obviously condone.

> Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and don’t’s of your
> life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do they dangle in front of you, what
> actual freedoms do you have to keep on being an employee. Think about it.

Pure hyperbole. False equivalence.

> A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar paid football
> players who made a point out of their slavery by the white man, and what they

That's MX-stupid.

<snip>

> > If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
> > it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
>
> The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world? What about
> pimps and their women?
> What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the dole? People
> that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What about the countries controlled
> by Dictators?
>
> My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.

I'll take that as a "yes slavery is still perfectly
justified because political prisoners in Red China are
forced to make plastic toys for Happy Meals."

Did you not read Creon's post about Parker? You are
Exhibit A for putting biblical dogma above conscience.

Welcome to the 21st century, Robert. You should be
ashamed of yourself.

On 26/05/2024 11:37 pm, Mitchell Holman wrote:
> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
> news:v2upbe$3aomp$2@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 26/05/2024 5:01 pm, Maximus wrote:
>>> Robert wrote:
>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>> (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>
>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org
>>>>>>>>> :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
>>>>>>>>>>> rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
>>>>>>>>>>>>> er.o rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart with enmity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and eternal life with him.
>>>>>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Which is it?
>>>>>>>> None of them.
>>>>>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>>>>>> everything that happens.
>>>>>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>>> Such as........?
>>>> Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>>>>>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>>>> Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
>>>>> and tell us how children dying of cancer
>>>>> are part of a "Divine Plan".
>>>> What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for
>>>> these things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The destroyer/
>>>
>>> I think you make this stuff up as you go along. you claim God created
>>> everything, now you say Satan created cancer.
>>
>> That is a valid point.
>>
>>
>>> but those of us who know
>>> better know diseases are from a biological source, not from beings
>>> that don't exist
>>
>> But that is not a valid point.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> Because things can't create themselves.
>
>
>
> So all diseases were created by God.
>
> Why?

You have been told way, you know why, and many times it has been
recounted, but you do not care.

You get a choice, disease (your own ways) or Him.

No change.

You and the world made your choice. "God is dead." For you.

In the Name of Jesus

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

On 27/05/2024 4:02 am, teslaStinker wrote:
>
>
> On 5/24/2024 8:59 PM, In the Name of Jesus wrote:
>> On 25/05/2024 1:18 pm, Andrew W wrote:
>>> "Orlando Enrique Fiol"  wrote in message
>>> news:MPG.40bb0a01b04affd198968f@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>
>>>> In article <lb53k4Ffj3rU5@mid.individual.net>, creon@creon.earth
>>>> writes:
>>>>> Doesn't make any sense.  Maybe it made sense to medievals.
>>>>
>>>> It's because God loves us that he's given us commandments which, when
>>>> disobeyed, inevitably cause pain and suffering to everyone involved. An
>>>> unloving God would have left us to figure out how to live with one
>>>> another by
>>>> trial and error, with the strong doing what they can and the weak
>>>> doing what
>>>> they must.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Trial and error is the only proper way humans can learn.
>>> Have the commandments worked so far? Nope. Why? Because the people who
>>> really need to follow them ignore them. The Bible only preaches to the
>>> choir. Useless.
>>
>> The bible does not preach, "Keep the 10 commandments (law)" in the New
>> Testament of His blood.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In the Name of Jesus.
>>
> He The true Bible, also tells you to keep his precepts,  so its not just
> 10 commandments ( The Law )  statutes and Justices > and He also makes
> it clear, you are not to be with them

Have you done that?

In the Name of Jesus

>
>  5 But thus rather shall you deal with them: Destroy their altars, and
> break their statues, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven
> things. 6 Because thou art a holy people to the Lord thy God. The Lord
> thy God hath chosen thee, to be his peculiar people of all peoples that
> are upon the earth.
>
> Jesus did not come to tell you to love all people,  He came to cause
> division between His People. and the devils.  So go ahead infidels,
> cause that is what you athiest are,  say some more dumb shit that is not
> true, and we shall cut your eyes out an burn your fake altars,  For your
> laws, and Our Laws,  are not the same,  And He did tell us, what they
> are as WE do Do them an know them,  Whether you like them or not pagans.
>  So expect to be excommunicated, for His Holy Bible and Laws, do not
> change......

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that a sinner could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

What does a fool do? A fool looks for a "nothing" in a "something" in
order to explain the existence of existence.

"Unless you do all because He is who He is, all your religion is in vain."

"Every man is subject to God; He judges every man, and He is reality.
 What a gift in a fallen world!"

"Love MUST be a choice or it is nothing but a law!"

"Why were all men born sinners? So that God could reveal Himself, so
that we would behold the glory of God, and that we should bring forth
the glory of God"

"God does not and will not arbitrate for any man to love Him! If God
isn't everything to you, He is nothing to you where the rubber meets the
road."

"It is the unforgivable sin not to love God with all your heart, soul,
and mind. What do you have that is lasting? It is not so much being
punished; it is what you are left with."

"Love isn't worth anything without first a free will choice for God to
birth it in a man."

"The point of salvation: desperation. Anything less than that is
self-righteousness."

"A sinner is not a believer in God; a sinner is a believer in sin."

"A piece of dirt is not the promised land; that is only a reflection.
The promised land is knowing Me, says the Lord."

"It is all about God or it is all about idolatry."

"The Lord Jesus is coming soon. He has always come soon."

"There is no revolving door of self-worship in a son of God's life!"

"There is no such thing as random!"

"You can't truly love without it being with all your heart."

"No one can see God without their whole heart. Unless you can see God,
you know nothing."

"You can't learn God, God has to reveal Himself to you."

"No sinner is sinless in any way."

"Only God is life; only the Kingdom of God of His "Nature" is life."

"What you believe is just a leaning on your own understanding; faith is
a leaning on the one you have chosen to trust."

"God uses the "letter" to crucify a man and raise him from the dead."

"Not fearing God is sheer stupidity for sinners."

On 27/05/2024 4:02 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
> On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:45:49 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> On 26/05/2024 5:01 pm, Maximus wrote:
>>> Robert wrote:
>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>> (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>
>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
>>>>>>>>>>> rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
>>>>>>>>>>>>> er.o rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart with enmity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and eternal life with him.
>>>>>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Which is it?
>>>>>>>> None of them.
>>>>>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>>>>>> everything that happens.
>>>>>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>>> Such as........?
>>>> Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>>>>>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>>>> Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
>>>>> and tell us how children dying of cancer
>>>>> are part of a "Divine Plan".
>>>> What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for these
>>>> things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The destroyer/
>>>
>>> I think you make this stuff up as you go along. you claim God created
>>> everything, now you say Satan created cancer.
>>
>> That is a valid point.
>
> Why would God allow Satan to create cancer?

Indeed, why did you bring cancer upon yourself?

Why did you bring about pollution?

Did you think you weren't going to reap what you sow?

Also, see my reply to that Mitchell Holman fella.

In the Name of Jesus

>
>>> but those of us who know
>>> better know diseases are from a biological source, not from beings that
>>> don't exist
>>
>> But that is not a valid point.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> Because things can't create themselves.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael Christ

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

On 27/05/2024 5:36 am, Robert wrote:
> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> (in article <XnsB17E56AA0EBED629555@185.151.15.190>):
>
>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> news:0001HW.2C02EAF60027039430F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>> (in article <XnsB17DD39B0FF3D629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>
>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>> news:0001HW.2C0265C30007CBBC30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>
>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D856FD386629555@185.151.15.160>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024C150001C70430F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D53917EE6F629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the Name of Jesus<michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:v2rn5e $2nfks$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 25/05/2024 11:28 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Michael Christ<michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> news:v2r2jt$2gpfd$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 24/05/2024 8:59 pm, Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Rod E." <dx7066801@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:v2oha2$1vb8l$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/22/2024 7:48 AM, Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christ<michaelmclean92910@outlook.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in news:v2jp4n$100ao$2@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22/05/2024 11:35 am, Mitchell Holman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:lb4tmqFfj3rU1@mid.individual.net:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 21 May 2024 17:16:47 -0500,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ChristRose wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and saving you from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eternal damnation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damnation doctrine is spiritual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terrorism.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One would do well not to doubt the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> salvific
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> powers of God Almighty...in this life
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or in any other He may have in store
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (signed)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a Universalist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Religion has actually convinced
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people that there's an invisible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> man living in the sky who watches
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything you do, every minute of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every day. And the invisible man
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has a special list of ten things he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not want you to do. And if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do any of these ten things, he has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a special place, full of fire and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smoke and burning and torture and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anguish, where he will send you to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> live and suffer and burn and choke
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and scream and cry forever and ever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'til the end of time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But He loves you!"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Carlin, Dec 23 2005
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snapshot of an ignorant fool.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ÂÂÂÂ The original post was right, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is spiritual terrorism.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ÂÂÂÂ "Do as I tell you or I will kill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ÂÂÂÂÂÂ - kidnapper
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ÂÂÂÂ "Believe as I tell you or suffer in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hell" ÂÂÂÂÂÂ - Christianity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the fear of suffering in hell is the basis of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Xtianity. without
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there would be no need for salvation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Conform or die? Sounds like the Catholic Church
>>>>>>>> speaking.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or the Protestant Church.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I should have no compassion on these
>>>>>>>>>>>>> witches; I should burn them all."
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Martin Luther
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is more to following the rules than this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> People must be willing to live in peace together
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or there can be no peace for anyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Religions have never been able
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to live in peace together.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> so true!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Snapshot of an ignorant fools."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yet more moron sweepings statements.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Man has never been able to live in peace together.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wasn't Ye Floode supposed to fix that?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Lord Jesus Christ fixes the person.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jim Jones, David Koresh, Jim Bakker,
>>>>>>>> every Pedophile Priest.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have seen what people "fixed by
>>>>>>>> Jesus" are like, indeed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mat 7:15-17 (KJV)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's
>>>>>>> clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of
>>>>>>> thorns, or figs of thistles?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a
>>>>>>> corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can see here that there were such men in the time of Jesus,
>>>>>>> as he was the one speaking theses words, true of that time,
>>>>>>> true of this time and culminating with the time of the
>>>>>>> antichrist coming very soon, in the flesh. ATM the spirit of
>>>>>>> the antichrist is leading these people and has been since the
>>>>>>> days of the Apostles.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Look at the fruits these people gather. Like minded followers
>>>>>>> who speak as foul and vulgar as they do, or practice livings
>>>>>>> they do, all the while their leaders are taking advantage of
>>>>>>> them, people who are to follow their leader, what he says is
>>>>>>> truth, in spite of the fact that a lot of what they say is
>>>>>>> contrary to the truth, which can be verified by the story pole
>>>>>>> of the Bible. The Word of God.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mary Dyer was a follower of mid-wife and religious
>>>>>> activist Anne Marbury Hutchinson. Her views about
>>>>>> God and religion were considered heresy by the
>>>>>> Puritan religion In 1658, a law was passed banishing
>>>>>> Quakers under "pain of death." Mary Dyer was executed,
>>>>>> hanged for being a Quaker on June 1, 1660.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.womeninhistoryprograms.com/dyer.html
>>>>>
>>>>> That is the legacy of the RCC doctrines that carried forward over
>>>>> the the fence of the Reformation.
>>>>
>>>> Christians killing other Christians
>>>> for following the "wrong" Christianity.
>>>
>>> People calling themselves Christian does not make them one, and other
>>> who call people a christian, who are not, does not make the person a
>>> christian also. Many call others a christian just to slam them or put
>>> them in bad light before their fellows.
>>
>> Who are you to decide what
>> a Christian is?

On May 26, 2024, pursent100@gmail.com wrote
(in article<rcycnY5V4p1DKc77nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com>):

> Robert wrote:
> > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> > (in article<rn975jdrh5gbuiocad2jv49a7bm978vqm1@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > Robert wrote:
> > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
> > > > > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious notions
> > > > > > > there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say embracing
> > > > > > > religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ''
> > > > > > The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
> > > > > > directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even on
> > > > > > Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be
> > > > > > superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
> > > > > > the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will authority. It
> > > > > > can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim obedience. What
> > > > > > God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of his own; so
> > > > > > nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on reason and
> > > > > > conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it may. One
> > > > > > chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring natural morality and
> > > > > > natural religion to their original and proper place,
> > > > >
> > > > > Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
> > > >
> > > > First you need to know what you are talking about, and understand without
> > > > throwing shade.
> > > >
> > > > All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a bad side
> > > > which
> > > > left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
> > > > Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
> > > > Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a place for it.
> > > > Murder in any form is just as evil.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
> > > > > will not be freed at the end of six years as the
> > > > > men are.
> > > > > Exodus 21:7-11
> > > >
> > > > This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of slavery most
> > > > think of as overblown by evil people. This was a willing indenture, like
> > > > when
> > > > you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for a shorter
> > > > time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer than the years that
> > > > the
> > > > Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more complicated topic
> > > > that this brief explanation, and yes, I know that most people do not get
> > > > it.
> > > > But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to feed and
> > > > clothe
> > > > their families instead of opting to die prematurely of starvation or
> > > > freeze
> > > > to death. This was also common in the early days of America regardless of
> > > > race. Even in the biblical times many “slaves” could buy back their
> > > > freedom from the monies earned for their work. Some never opted out,
> > > > content
> > > > to work for their living and get a little spending money on top of all the
> > > > other benefits provided them. Bigots will never understand what I am
> > > > saying,
> > > > and they would be the same type of people who would treat their slaves
> > > > poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh words and bad
> > > > attitudes.
> > >
> > > So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
> >
> > I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the various meanings
> > for the one English word called slavery.
> >
> > Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and don’t’s of your
> > life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do they dangle in front of you, what
> > actual freedoms do you have to keep on being an employee. Think about it.
> >
> > A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar paid football
> > players who made a point out of their slavery by the white man, and what
> > they
> > had to do whether they liked it or not in order to remain on the teams they
> > were a part of. To them that was slavery, they shouldn’t be required to
> > practice, just show up for the game. Many scoffed at the whole idea,
> > especially because of the monies they make, their retirement programs as
> > well
> > as health care.
> >
> > Yet they had a point. We all have to give in order to get, in some way.
> >
> > I also had many friends who owned their companies, who felt that their
> > employees were their ’slaves’ some actually disrespected them, not
> > openly, but did take advantage of them. I never respected them, and it was
> > embarrassing to be around them. But that is still the way of men in
> > today’s
> > world. That is why there were some good owners and bad owners. Biblically
> > speaking under the Jewish Covenant, there were provisions made for people so
> > as to be able to feed their families, fairly and squarely. But those with
> > the
> > mindset of harsh slavery practices by evil men put all slavery into that one
> > mindset box, which is unfair. A lot of America was made up of white slaves
> > and their families, who for the sake of freedom and the free ride via ship,
> > into this country gave up 5-10 years of their life just to get here, and be
> > able to build their own farms and or businesses once released of their
> > obligations.
> >
> > Would you have denied these people the opportunity to live and not die?
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
> > > it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
> >
> > The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world? What about
> > pimps and their women?
> > What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the dole? People
> > that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What about the countries
> > controlled
> > by Dictators?
> >
> > My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
> they can't be , slavery is illegal everywhere

Then you deceive yourself. People have been arrested here in the USA, this
century for slavery.

https://www.un.org/en/delegate/50-million-people-modern-slavery-un-report

This in 2022 the above.

https://theconversation.com/fact-check-how-many-people-are-enslaved-in-the-
world-today-107078

So who has been yanking your chain? ;)

On Mon, 27 May 2024 09:09:18 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
<michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 27/05/2024 4:02 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:45:49 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 26/05/2024 5:01 pm, Maximus wrote:
>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>> (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
>>>>>>>>>>>> rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> er.o rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart with enmity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and eternal life with him.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>>>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Which is it?
>>>>>>>>> None of them.
>>>>>>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>>>>>>> everything that happens.
>>>>>>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>>>> Such as........?
>>>>> Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>>>>>>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>>>>> Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
>>>>>> and tell us how children dying of cancer
>>>>>> are part of a "Divine Plan".
>>>>> What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for these
>>>>> things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The destroyer/
>>>>
>>>> I think you make this stuff up as you go along. you claim God created
>>>> everything, now you say Satan created cancer.
>>>
>>> That is a valid point.
>>
>> Why would God allow Satan to create cancer?
>
>Indeed, why did you bring cancer upon yourself?
>
>Why did you bring about pollution?
>
>Did you think you weren't going to reap what you sow?

Not me, but the innocent children who get struck down with cancer. Are
those children "reaping what they sow"?

>Also, see my reply to that Mitchell Holman fella.

So if someone contracts a disease, it's always their fault? Should we
abolish hospitals, since it's the patients' own fault that they're in
there?
>
>
>
>In the Name of Jesus
>
>
>
>>
>>>> but those of us who know
>>>> better know diseases are from a biological source, not from beings that
>>>> don't exist
>>>
>>> But that is not a valid point.
>>>
>>> Why?
>>>
>>> Because things can't create themselves.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Christ

On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
(in article<hmd75jdlcsh5v6qddb0l4jqct32ohkj4vj@4ax.com>):

> Robert wrote:
> > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> > > Robert wrote:
> > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
> > > > > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious notions
> > > > > > > there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say embracing
> > > > > > > religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ''
> > > > > > The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
> > > > > > directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even on
> > > > > > Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be
> > > > > > superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
> > > > > > the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will authority. It
> > > > > > can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim obedience. What
> > > > > > God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of his own; so
> > > > > > nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on reason and
> > > > > > conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it may. One
> > > > > > chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring natural morality and
> > > > > > natural religion to their original and proper place,
> > > > >
> > > > > Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
> > > >
> > > > First you need to know what you are talking about, and understand without
> > > > throwing shade.
> > > >
> > > > All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a bad side
> > > > which
> > > > left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
> > > > Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
> > > > Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a place for it.
> > > > Murder in any form is just as evil.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
> > > > > will not be freed at the end of six years as the
> > > > > men are.
> > > > > Exodus 21:7-11
> > > >
> > > > This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of slavery most
> > > > think of as overblown by evil people. This was a willing indenture, like
> > > > when
> > > > you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for a shorter
> > > > time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer than the years that
> > > > the
> > > > Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more complicated topic
> > > > that this brief explanation, and yes, I know that most people do not get
> > > > it.
> > > > But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to feed and
> > > > clothe
> > > > their families instead of opting to die prematurely of starvation or
> > > > freeze
> > > > to death. This was also common in the early days of America regardless of
> > > > race. Even in the biblical times many “slaves” could buy back their
> > > > freedom from the monies earned for their work. Some never opted out,
> > > > content
> > > > to work for their living and get a little spending money on top of all the
> > > > other benefits provided them. Bigots will never understand what I am
> > > > saying,
> > > > and they would be the same type of people who would treat their slaves
> > > > poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh words and bad
> > > > attitudes.
> > >
> > > So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
> >
> > I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the various meanings
> > for the one English word called slavery.
>
> No, there aren't "various meanings" for slavery. A slave
> is a person who is owned by another person, a practice
> which you obviously condone.

https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/

https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/modern-slavery/

https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/slavery-uk/

None of this has to do with religions.

> > Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and don’t’s of your
> > life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do they dangle in front of you, what
> > actual freedoms do you have to keep on being an employee. Think about it.
>
> Pure hyperbole. False equivalence.

What makes you think so? Too tired to think, or are you just another frog in
a pot of boiling water.
>
>
> > A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar paid football
> > players who made a point out of their slavery by the white man, and what
> > they
>
> That's MX-stupid.

Nevertheless it was well stated in the news.
>
>
> <snip>
>
> > > If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
> > > it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
> >
> > The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world? What about
> > pimps and their women?
> > What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the dole? People
> > that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What about the countries
> > controlled by Dictators?
> >
> > My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
>
> I'll take that as a "yes slavery is still perfectly
> justified because political prisoners in Red China are
> forced to make plastic toys for Happy Meals."

All forms of slavery are NOT justified, never said or intimidated that it is.
You just blew your cred's irretrievably also showed an inability to reason.

>
>
> Did you not read Creon's post about Parker? You are
> Exhibit A for putting biblical dogma above conscience.

I don’t remember seeing it much less reading it.
Your rationale, as well as his, is based on bias’, if that is your
conclusion.

Historically there has been many forms of slavery, slave owners, treatment of
Slaves, and in the Bible, Joseph was a slave in Egypt yet out of that he
became ruler of all of Egypt ruling with the same authority as the Pharaoh
that was alive at the time.
>
> Welcome to the 21st century, Robert. You should be
> ashamed of yourself.

Not one bit. Because you are unable to reason, understand, or even think in
regards to this subject is on you, not me.
Too bad you never had a class on American history and the various forms of
slavery.

Would you rather a family starve to death rather than indenture themselves as
a slave to survive poor economic times, droughts, etc,?

slave | sleɪv

noun

1 a person who is forced to work for and obey another and is considered to be
their property; an enslaved person: they kidnapped entire towns and turned
the inhabitants into slaves | vodun derives from ancient African rites and
beliefs brought to the New World by slaves.

• a person who works very hard without proper remuneration or appreciation:
by the time I was ten, I had become her slave, doing all the housework.

• a person who is excessively dependent upon or controlled by something:
the poorest people of the world are slaves to the banks | she was no slave to
fashion.

2 a device, or part of one, directly controlled by another. Compare with
master1:[as modifier] : a slave cassette deck.

verb

1 [no object] work excessively hard: after slaving away for fourteen years
all he gets is two thousand | I haven't got time to spend hours slaving over
a hot stove.

2 [with object] subject (a device) to control by another: should the need
arise, the two channels can be slaved together.

3 [with object] archaic make (someone) a slave; enslave.

ORIGIN

Middle English: shortening of Old French esclave, equivalent of medieval
Latin sclava (feminine) ‘Slavonic (captive)’: the Slavonic peoples had
been reduced to a servile state by conquest in the 9th century.

Robert wrote:
> On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> (in article<hmd75jdlcsh5v6qddb0l4jqct32ohkj4vj@4ax.com>):
>
>> Robert wrote:
>>> On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>> Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
>>>>>>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious notions
>>>>>>>> there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say embracing
>>>>>>>> religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ''
>>>>>>> The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
>>>>>>> directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even on
>>>>>>> Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be
>>>>>>> superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
>>>>>>> the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will authority. It
>>>>>>> can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim obedience. What
>>>>>>> God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of his own; so
>>>>>>> nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on reason and
>>>>>>> conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it may. One
>>>>>>> chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring natural morality and
>>>>>>> natural religion to their original and proper place,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
>>>>>
>>>>> First you need to know what you are talking about, and understand without
>>>>> throwing shade.
>>>>>
>>>>> All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a bad side
>>>>> which
>>>>> left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
>>>>> Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
>>>>> Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a place for it.
>>>>> Murder in any form is just as evil.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
>>>>>> will not be freed at the end of six years as the
>>>>>> men are.
>>>>>> Exodus 21:7-11
>>>>>
>>>>> This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of slavery most
>>>>> think of as overblown by evil people. This was a willing indenture, like
>>>>> when
>>>>> you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for a shorter
>>>>> time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer than the years that
>>>>> the
>>>>> Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more complicated topic
>>>>> that this brief explanation, and yes, I know that most people do not get
>>>>> it.
>>>>> But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to feed and
>>>>> clothe
>>>>> their families instead of opting to die prematurely of starvation or
>>>>> freeze
>>>>> to death. This was also common in the early days of America regardless of
>>>>> race. Even in the biblical times many “slaves” could buy back their
>>>>> freedom from the monies earned for their work. Some never opted out,
>>>>> content
>>>>> to work for their living and get a little spending money on top of all the
>>>>> other benefits provided them. Bigots will never understand what I am
>>>>> saying,
>>>>> and they would be the same type of people who would treat their slaves
>>>>> poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh words and bad
>>>>> attitudes.
>>>>
>>>> So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
>>>
>>> I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the various meanings
>>> for the one English word called slavery.
>>
>> No, there aren't "various meanings" for slavery. A slave
>> is a person who is owned by another person, a practice
>> which you obviously condone.
>
> https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/
>
> https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/modern-slavery/
>
> https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/slavery-uk/
>
> None of this has to do with religions.
>
>>> Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and don’t’s of your
>>> life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do they dangle in front of you, what
>>> actual freedoms do you have to keep on being an employee. Think about it.
>>
>> Pure hyperbole. False equivalence.
>
> What makes you think so? Too tired to think, or are you just another frog in
> a pot of boiling water.
>>
>>
>>> A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar paid football
>>> players who made a point out of their slavery by the white man, and what
>>> they
>>
>> That's MX-stupid.
>
> Nevertheless it was well stated in the news.
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
>>>> it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
>>>
>>> The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world? What about
>>> pimps and their women?
>>> What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the dole? People
>>> that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What about the countries
>>> controlled by Dictators?
>>>
>>> My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
>>
>> I'll take that as a "yes slavery is still perfectly
>> justified because political prisoners in Red China are
>> forced to make plastic toys for Happy Meals."
>
> All forms of slavery are NOT justified, never said or intimidated that it is.
> You just blew your cred's irretrievably also showed an inability to reason.
>
>>
>>
>> Did you not read Creon's post about Parker? You are
>> Exhibit A for putting biblical dogma above conscience.
>
> I don’t remember seeing it much less reading it.
> Your rationale, as well as his, is based on bias’, if that is your
> conclusion.
>
> Historically there has been many forms of slavery, slave owners, treatment of
> Slaves, and in the Bible, Joseph was a slave in Egypt yet out of that he
> became ruler of all of Egypt ruling with the same authority as the Pharaoh
> that was alive at the time.
>>
>> Welcome to the 21st century, Robert. You should be
>> ashamed of yourself.
>
> Not one bit. Because you are unable to reason, understand, or even think in
> regards to this subject is on you, not me.
> Too bad you never had a class on American history and the various forms of
> slavery.
>
> Would you rather a family starve to death rather than indenture themselves as
> a slave to survive poor economic times, droughts, etc,?
>
> slave | sleɪv
>
> noun
>
> 1 a person who is forced to work for and obey another and is considered to be
> their property; an enslaved person: they kidnapped entire towns and turned
> the inhabitants into slaves | vodun derives from ancient African rites and
> beliefs brought to the New World by slaves.
>
> • a person who works very hard without proper remuneration or appreciation:
> by the time I was ten, I had become her slave, doing all the housework.
>
> • a person who is excessively dependent upon or controlled by something:
> the poorest people of the world are slaves to the banks | she was no slave to
> fashion.
>
> 2 a device, or part of one, directly controlled by another. Compare with
> master1:[as modifier] : a slave cassette deck.
>
> verb
>
> 1 [no object] work excessively hard: after slaving away for fourteen years
> all he gets is two thousand | I haven't got time to spend hours slaving over
> a hot stove.
>
> 2 [with object] subject (a device) to control by another: should the need
> arise, the two channels can be slaved together.
>
> 3 [with object] archaic make (someone) a slave; enslave.
>
> ORIGIN
>
> Middle English: shortening of Old French esclave, equivalent of medieval
> Latin sclava (feminine) ‘Slavonic (captive)’: the Slavonic peoples had
> been reduced to a servile state by conquest in the 9th century.
>
>
see , i was right

On May 26, 2024, In the Name of Jesus wrote
(in article <v30fku$3ldh5$4@dont-email.me>):

> On 27/05/2024 5:36 am, Robert wrote:
> > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > (in article <XnsB17E56AA0EBED629555@185.151.15.190>):
> >
> > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > news:0001HW.2C02EAF60027039430F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > >
> > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > (in article <XnsB17DD39B0FF3D629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > >
> > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > news:0001HW.2C0265C30007CBBC30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D856FD386629555@185.151.15.160>):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C024C150001C70430F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D53917EE6F629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In the Name of Jesus<michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > news:v2rn5e $2nfks$1@dont-email.me:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On 25/05/2024 11:28 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Michael Christ<michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > > news:v2r2jt$2gpfd$1@dont-email.me:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > On 24/05/2024 8:59 pm, Maximus wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Mitchell Holman wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Rod E." <dx7066801@gmail.com> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > news:v2oha2$1vb8l$1@dont-email.me:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/22/2024 7:48 AM, Maximus wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mitchell Holman wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christ<michaelmclean92910@outlook.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote in news:v2jp4n$100ao$2@dont-email.me:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 22/05/2024 11:35 am, Mitchell Holman
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > news:lb4tmqFfj3rU1@mid.individual.net:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 21 May 2024 17:16:47 -0500,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ChristRose wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and saving you from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eternal damnation.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Damnation doctrine is spiritual
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > terrorism.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One would do well not to doubt the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > salvific
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > powers of God Almighty...in this life
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or in any other He may have in store
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for you.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (signed)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a Universalist.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Religion has actually convinced
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > people that there's an invisible
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > man living in the sky who watches
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > everything you do, every minute of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > every day. And the invisible man
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > has a special list of ten things he
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does not want you to do. And if you
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do any of these ten things, he has
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a special place, full of fire and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smoke and burning and torture and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anguish, where he will send you to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > live and suffer and burn and choke
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and scream and cry forever and ever
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'til the end of time.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But He loves you!"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > George Carlin, Dec 23 2005
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Snapshot of an ignorant fool.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÂÂÂÂ The original post was right, it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is spiritual terrorism.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÂÂÂÂ "Do as I tell you or I will kill
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÂÂÂÂÂÂ - kidnapper
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÂÂÂÂ "Believe as I tell you or suffer in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hell" ÂÂÂÂÂÂ - Christianity
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the fear of suffering in hell is the basis of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Xtianity. without
> > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there would be no need for salvation.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Conform or die? Sounds like the Catholic Church
> > > > > > > > > speaking.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or the Protestant Church.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "I should have no compassion on these
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > witches; I should burn them all."
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Martin Luther
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is more to following the rules than this.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People must be willing to live in peace together
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or there can be no peace for anyone.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Religions have never been able
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to live in peace together.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > so true!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > "Snapshot of an ignorant fools."
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Yet more moron sweepings statements.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Man has never been able to live in peace together.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Wasn't Ye Floode supposed to fix that?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The Lord Jesus Christ fixes the person.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Jim Jones, David Koresh, Jim Bakker,
> > > > > > > > > every Pedophile Priest.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > We have seen what people "fixed by
> > > > > > > > > Jesus" are like, indeed.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mat 7:15-17 (KJV)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's
> > > > > > > > clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of
> > > > > > > > thorns, or figs of thistles?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a
> > > > > > > > corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You can see here that there were such men in the time of Jesus,
> > > > > > > > as he was the one speaking theses words, true of that time,
> > > > > > > > true of this time and culminating with the time of the
> > > > > > > > antichrist coming very soon, in the flesh. ATM the spirit of
> > > > > > > > the antichrist is leading these people and has been since the
> > > > > > > > days of the Apostles.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Look at the fruits these people gather. Like minded followers
> > > > > > > > who speak as foul and vulgar as they do, or practice livings
> > > > > > > > they do, all the while their leaders are taking advantage of
> > > > > > > > them, people who are to follow their leader, what he says is
> > > > > > > > truth, in spite of the fact that a lot of what they say is
> > > > > > > > contrary to the truth, which can be verified by the story pole
> > > > > > > > of the Bible. The Word of God.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mary Dyer was a follower of mid-wife and religious
> > > > > > > activist Anne Marbury Hutchinson. Her views about
> > > > > > > God and religion were considered heresy by the
> > > > > > > Puritan religion In 1658, a law was passed banishing
> > > > > > > Quakers under "pain of death." Mary Dyer was executed,
> > > > > > > hanged for being a Quaker on June 1, 1660.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.womeninhistoryprograms.com/dyer.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That is the legacy of the RCC doctrines that carried forward over
> > > > > > the the fence of the Reformation.
> > > > >
> > > > > Christians killing other Christians
> > > > > for following the "wrong" Christianity.
> > > >
> > > > People calling themselves Christian does not make them one, and other
> > > > who call people a christian, who are not, does not make the person a
> > > > christian also. Many call others a christian just to slam them or put
> > > > them in bad light before their fellows.
> > >
> > > Who are you to decide what
> > > a Christian is?
>
> Robert Religion wrote:
> > The word of God does. It describes the true believer and isolated them from
> > the false pretenders, deluded in their minds and understandings.
>
> False. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself decides what a Christian is, not a
> sinner interpreting his bible to suit himself.
>
> In the Name of Jesus

On May 26, 2024, pursent100@gmail.com wrote
(in article<492cnTLdHslrSs77nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com>):

> Robert wrote:
> > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> > (in article<hmd75jdlcsh5v6qddb0l4jqct32ohkj4vj@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > Robert wrote:
> > > > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> > > > > Robert wrote:
> > > > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
> > > > > > > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious notions
> > > > > > > > > there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say embracing
> > > > > > > > > religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ''
> > > > > > > > The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
> > > > > > > > directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even on
> > > > > > > > Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be
> > > > > > > > superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
> > > > > > > > the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will authority. It
> > > > > > > > can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim obedience. What
> > > > > > > > God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of his own; so
> > > > > > > > nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on reason and
> > > > > > > > conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it may. One
> > > > > > > > chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring natural morality and
> > > > > > > > natural religion to their original and proper place,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First you need to know what you are talking about, and understand
> > > > > > without
> > > > > > throwing shade.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a bad side
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
> > > > > > Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
> > > > > > Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a place for it.
> > > > > > Murder in any form is just as evil.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
> > > > > > > will not be freed at the end of six years as the
> > > > > > > men are.
> > > > > > > Exodus 21:7-11
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of slavery most
> > > > > > think of as overblown by evil people. This was a willing indenture, like
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for a
> > > > > > shorter
> > > > > > time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer than the years that
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more complicated
> > > > > > topic
> > > > > > that this brief explanation, and yes, I know that most people do not get
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > > But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to feed and
> > > > > > clothe
> > > > > > their families instead of opting to die prematurely of starvation or
> > > > > > freeze
> > > > > > to death. This was also common in the early days of America regardless
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > race. Even in the biblical times many “slaves” could buy back their
> > > > > > freedom from the monies earned for their work. Some never opted out,
> > > > > > content
> > > > > > to work for their living and get a little spending money on top of all
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > other benefits provided them. Bigots will never understand what I am
> > > > > > saying,
> > > > > > and they would be the same type of people who would treat their slaves
> > > > > > poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh words and bad
> > > > > > attitudes.
> > > > >
> > > > > So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the various
> > > > meanings
> > > > for the one English word called slavery.
> > >
> > > No, there aren't "various meanings" for slavery. A slave
> > > is a person who is owned by another person, a practice
> > > which you obviously condone.
> >
> > https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/
> >
> > https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/modern-slavery/
> >
> > https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/slavery-uk/
> >
> > None of this has to do with religions.
> >
> > > > Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and don’t’s of
> > > > your
> > > > life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do they dangle in front of you,
> > > > what
> > > > actual freedoms do you have to keep on being an employee. Think about it.
> > >
> > > Pure hyperbole. False equivalence.
> >
> > What makes you think so? Too tired to think, or are you just another frog in
> > a pot of boiling water.
> > >
> > >
> > > > A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar paid football
> > > > players who made a point out of their slavery by the white man, and what
> > > > they
> > >
> > > That's MX-stupid.
> >
> > Nevertheless it was well stated in the news.
> > >
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > > If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
> > > > > it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
> > > >
> > > > The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world? What about
> > > > pimps and their women?
> > > > What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the dole?
> > > > People
> > > > that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What about the countries
> > > > controlled by Dictators?
> > > >
> > > > My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
> > >
> > > I'll take that as a "yes slavery is still perfectly
> > > justified because political prisoners in Red China are
> > > forced to make plastic toys for Happy Meals."
> >
> > All forms of slavery are NOT justified, never said or intimidated that it
> > is.
> > You just blew your cred's irretrievably also showed an inability to reason.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Did you not read Creon's post about Parker? You are
> > > Exhibit A for putting biblical dogma above conscience.
> >
> > I don’t remember seeing it much less reading it.
> > Your rationale, as well as his, is based on bias’, if that is your
> > conclusion.
> >
> > Historically there has been many forms of slavery, slave owners, treatment
> > of
> > Slaves, and in the Bible, Joseph was a slave in Egypt yet out of that he
> > became ruler of all of Egypt ruling with the same authority as the Pharaoh
> > that was alive at the time.
> > >
> > > Welcome to the 21st century, Robert. You should be
> > > ashamed of yourself.
> >
> > Not one bit. Because you are unable to reason, understand, or even think in
> > regards to this subject is on you, not me.
> > Too bad you never had a class on American history and the various forms of
> > slavery.
> >
> > Would you rather a family starve to death rather than indenture themselves
> > as
> > a slave to survive poor economic times, droughts, etc,?
> >
> > slave | sleɪv
> >
> > noun
> >
> > 1 a person who is forced to work for and obey another and is considered to
> > be
> > their property; an enslaved person: they kidnapped entire towns and turned
> > the inhabitants into slaves | vodun derives from ancient African rites and
> > beliefs brought to the New World by slaves.
> >
> > • a person who works very hard without proper remuneration or
> > appreciation:
> > by the time I was ten, I had become her slave, doing all the housework.
> >
> > • a person who is excessively dependent upon or controlled by something:
> > the poorest people of the world are slaves to the banks | she was no slave
> > to
> > fashion.
> >
> > 2 a device, or part of one, directly controlled by another. Compare with
> > master1:[as modifier] : a slave cassette deck.
> >
> > verb
> >
> > 1 [no object] work excessively hard: after slaving away for fourteen years
> > all he gets is two thousand | I haven't got time to spend hours slaving over
> > a hot stove.
> >
> > 2 [with object] subject (a device) to control by another: should the need
> > arise, the two channels can be slaved together.
> >
> > 3 [with object] archaic make (someone) a slave; enslave.
> >
> > ORIGIN
> >
> > Middle English: shortening of Old French esclave, equivalent of medieval
> > Latin sclava (feminine) ‘Slavonic (captive)’: the Slavonic peoples had
> > been reduced to a servile state by conquest in the 9th century.
> see , i was right

Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
news:lbhb0aFcumvU1@mid.individual.net:

> On Sun, 26 May 2024 13:21:46 +0000, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>
>> Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
>> news:lbg5eiF6te2U3@mid.individual.net:
>>
>>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
>>>
>>>> if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious notions
>>>> there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say embracing
>>>> religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
>>>
>>> ''
>>> The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
>>> directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even
>>> on Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be
>>> superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with reason,
>>> utter the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will
>>> authority. It can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim
>>> obedience. What God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of
>>> his own; so nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding
>>> on reason and conscience, let it be taught on what external
>>> authority it may. One chief merit of Christianity consists in
>>> restoring natural morality and natural religion to their original
>>> and proper place,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
>>
>
> Theodore Parker was an abolitionist, and took into his home escaped
> slaves.
>
> He also argued with the Southern weirdos that tried to use the Bible
> to justify slavery.
>

There is no such thing as "natural morality".

Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
news:0001HW.2C0406BF0000606B30EE6438F@news.eternal-september.org:

> On May 26, 2024, pursent100@gmail.com wrote
> (in article<rcycnY5V4p1DKc77nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com>):
>
>> Robert wrote:
>> > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
>> > (in article<rn975jdrh5gbuiocad2jv49a7bm978vqm1@4ax.com>):
>> >
>> > > Robert wrote:
>> > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > > > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
>> > > > > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious
>> > > > > > > notions there's no telling were it will lead. that's why
>> > > > > > > I say embracing religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > ''
>> > > > > > The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They
>> > > > > > are directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the
>> > > > > > heart, as even on Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of
>> > > > > > transfiguration. Nothing can be superior to these
>> > > > > > instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
>> > > > > > the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will
>> > > > > > authority. It can never contradict these counselors, and
>> > > > > > yet claim obedience. What God has made cannot be unmade by
>> > > > > > any power short of his own; so nothing arbitrary or
>> > > > > > capricious can ever become binding on reason and
>> > > > > > conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it
>> > > > > > may. One chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring
>> > > > > > natural morality and natural religion to their original and
>> > > > > > proper place,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
>> > > >
>> > > > First you need to know what you are talking about, and
>> > > > understand without throwing shade.
>> > > >
>> > > > All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a
>> > > > bad side which
>> > > > left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
>> > > > Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
>> > > > Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a
>> > > > place for it. Murder in any form is just as evil.
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
>> > > > > will not be freed at the end of six years as the
>> > > > > men are.
>> > > > > Exodus 21:7-11
>> > > >
>> > > > This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of
>> > > > slavery most think of as overblown by evil people. This was a
>> > > > willing indenture, like when
>> > > > you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for
>> > > > a shorter time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer
>> > > > than the years that the
>> > > > Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more
>> > > > complicated topic that this brief explanation, and yes, I know
>> > > > that most people do not get it.
>> > > > But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to
>> > > > feed and clothe
>> > > > their families instead of opting to die prematurely of
>> > > > starvation or freeze
>> > > > to death. This was also common in the early days of America
>> > > > regardless of race. Even in the biblical times many
>> > > > “slaves” could buy back their freedom from the monies
>> > > > earned for their work. Some never opted out, content
>> > > > to work for their living and get a little spending money on top
>> > > > of all the other benefits provided them. Bigots will never
>> > > > understand what I am saying,
>> > > > and they would be the same type of people who would treat their
>> > > > slaves poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh
>> > > > words and bad attitudes.
>> > >
>> > > So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
>> >
>> > I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the various
>> > meanings for the one English word called slavery.
>> >
>> > Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and
>> > don’t’s of your life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do they
>> > dangle in front of you, what actual freedoms do you have to keep on
>> > being an employee. Think about it.
>> >
>> > A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar paid
>> > football players who made a point out of their slavery by the white
>> > man, and what they
>> > had to do whether they liked it or not in order to remain on the
>> > teams they were a part of. To them that was slavery, they
>> > shouldn’t be required to practice, just show up for the game.
>> > Many scoffed at the whole idea, especially because of the monies
>> > they make, their retirement programs as well
>> > as health care.
>> >
>> > Yet they had a point. We all have to give in order to get, in some
>> > way.
>> >
>> > I also had many friends who owned their companies, who felt that
>> > their employees were their ’slaves’ some actually disrespected
>> > them, not openly, but did take advantage of them. I never respected
>> > them, and it was embarrassing to be around them. But that is still
>> > the way of men in today’s
>> > world. That is why there were some good owners and bad owners.
>> > Biblically speaking under the Jewish Covenant, there were
>> > provisions made for people so as to be able to feed their families,
>> > fairly and squarely. But those with the
>> > mindset of harsh slavery practices by evil men put all slavery into
>> > that one mindset box, which is unfair. A lot of America was made up
>> > of white slaves and their families, who for the sake of freedom and
>> > the free ride via ship, into this country gave up 5-10 years of
>> > their life just to get here, and be able to build their own farms
>> > and or businesses once released of their obligations.
>> >
>> > Would you have denied these people the opportunity to live and not
>> > die?
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
>> > > it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
>> >
>> > The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world?
>> > What about pimps and their women?
>> > What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the
>> > dole? People that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What about
>> > the countries controlled
>> > by Dictators?
>> >
>> > My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
>> they can't be , slavery is illegal everywhere
>
> Then you deceive yourself. People have been arrested here in the USA,
> this century for slavery.

You missed the point.

He said slavery is illegal
everywhere and he is right. The
fact that it may be practiced
in isolated places doesn't change
that.

>
> https://www.un.org/en/delegate/50-million-people-modern-slavery-un-repo
> rt
>
> This in 2022 the above.
>
> https://theconversation.com/fact-check-how-many-people-are-enslaved-in-
> the- world-today-107078
>
> So who has been yanking your chain? ;)

Your claim that there is a
good side and bad side to slavery
is just silly.

On Mon, 27 May 2024 09:09:18 +1000, In the Name of Jesus wrote:

> On 27/05/2024 4:02 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:45:49 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 26/05/2024 5:01 pm, Maximus wrote:
>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>> (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
>>>>>>>>>>>> rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> er.o rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart with enmity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and eternal life with him.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>>>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Which is it?
>>>>>>>>> None of them.
>>>>>>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>>>>>>> everything that happens.
>>>>>>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>>>> Such as........?
>>>>> Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>>>>>>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>>>>> Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
>>>>>> and tell us how children dying of cancer
>>>>>> are part of a "Divine Plan".
>>>>> What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for these
>>>>> things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The destroyer/
>>>>
>>>> I think you make this stuff up as you go along. you claim God created
>>>> everything, now you say Satan created cancer.
>>>
>>> That is a valid point.
>>
>> Why would God allow Satan to create cancer?
>
> Indeed, why did you bring cancer upon yourself?

That's not what the Bible says.

Deuteronomy 28

27 The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods,
and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.
28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of
heart:

...and so forth.

(Of course, God wouldn't actually do that -- it's just the
evolutionary mechanism in nature.)

--
-c

Creon wrote:
> On Mon, 27 May 2024 09:09:18 +1000, In the Name of Jesus wrote:
>
>> On 27/05/2024 4:02 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
>>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:45:49 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 26/05/2024 5:01 pm, Maximus wrote:
>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> er.o rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart with enmity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and eternal life with him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>>>>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it?
>>>>>>>>>> None of them.
>>>>>>>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>>>>>>>> everything that happens.
>>>>>>>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>>>>> Such as........?
>>>>>> Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>>>>>>>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>>>>>> Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
>>>>>>> and tell us how children dying of cancer
>>>>>>> are part of a "Divine Plan".
>>>>>> What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for these
>>>>>> things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The destroyer/
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you make this stuff up as you go along. you claim God created
>>>>> everything, now you say Satan created cancer.
>>>>
>>>> That is a valid point.
>>>
>>> Why would God allow Satan to create cancer?
>>
>> Indeed, why did you bring cancer upon yourself?
>
> That's not what the Bible says.
>
> Deuteronomy 28
>
> 27 The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods,
> and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.
> 28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of
> heart:
>
> ...and so forth.
>
> (Of course, God wouldn't actually do that -- it's just the
> evolutionary mechanism in nature.)
>
wasn't that written 2,000 years agi

Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
news:0001HW.2C040E2200021B7730EE6438F@news.eternal-september.org:

> On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> (in article<hmd75jdlcsh5v6qddb0l4jqct32ohkj4vj@4ax.com>):
>
>> Robert wrote:
>> > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
>> > > Robert wrote:
>> > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > > > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
>> > > > > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious
>> > > > > > > notions there's no telling were it will lead. that's why
>> > > > > > > I say embracing religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > ''
>> > > > > > The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They
>> > > > > > are directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the
>> > > > > > heart, as even on Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of
>> > > > > > transfiguration. Nothing can be superior to these
>> > > > > > instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
>> > > > > > the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will
>> > > > > > authority. It can never contradict these counselors, and
>> > > > > > yet claim obedience. What God has made cannot be unmade by
>> > > > > > any power short of his own; so nothing arbitrary or
>> > > > > > capricious can ever become binding on reason and
>> > > > > > conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it
>> > > > > > may. One chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring
>> > > > > > natural morality and natural religion to their original and
>> > > > > > proper place,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
>> > > >
>> > > > First you need to know what you are talking about, and
>> > > > understand without throwing shade.
>> > > >
>> > > > All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a
>> > > > bad side which
>> > > > left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
>> > > > Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
>> > > > Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a
>> > > > place for it. Murder in any form is just as evil.
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
>> > > > > will not be freed at the end of six years as the
>> > > > > men are.
>> > > > > Exodus 21:7-11
>> > > >
>> > > > This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of
>> > > > slavery most think of as overblown by evil people. This was a
>> > > > willing indenture, like when
>> > > > you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for
>> > > > a shorter time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer
>> > > > than the years that the
>> > > > Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more
>> > > > complicated topic that this brief explanation, and yes, I know
>> > > > that most people do not get it.
>> > > > But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to
>> > > > feed and clothe
>> > > > their families instead of opting to die prematurely of
>> > > > starvation or freeze
>> > > > to death. This was also common in the early days of America
>> > > > regardless of race. Even in the biblical times many
>> > > > “slaves” could buy back their freedom from the monies
>> > > > earned for their work. Some never opted out, content
>> > > > to work for their living and get a little spending money on top
>> > > > of all the other benefits provided them. Bigots will never
>> > > > understand what I am saying,
>> > > > and they would be the same type of people who would treat their
>> > > > slaves poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh
>> > > > words and bad attitudes.
>> > >
>> > > So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
>> >
>> > I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the various
>> > meanings for the one English word called slavery.
>>
>> No, there aren't "various meanings" for slavery. A slave
>> is a person who is owned by another person, a practice
>> which you obviously condone.
>
> https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/
>
> https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/modern-slavery/
>
> https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/slavery-uk/
>
> None of this has to do with religions.
>
>> > Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and
>> > don’t’s of your life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do they
>> > dangle in front of you, what actual freedoms do you have to keep on
>> > being an employee. Think about it.
>>
>> Pure hyperbole. False equivalence.
>
> What makes you think so? Too tired to think, or are you just another
> frog in a pot of boiling water.
>>
>>
>> > A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar paid
>> > football players who made a point out of their slavery by the white
>> > man, and what they
>>
>> That's MX-stupid.
>
> Nevertheless it was well stated in the news.
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> > > If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
>> > > it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
>> >
>> > The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world?
>> > What about pimps and their women?
>> > What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the
>> > dole? People that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What about
>> > the countries controlled by Dictators?
>> >
>> > My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
>>
>> I'll take that as a "yes slavery is still perfectly
>> justified because political prisoners in Red China are
>> forced to make plastic toys for Happy Meals."
>
> All forms of slavery are NOT justified, never said or intimidated that
> it is. You just blew your cred's irretrievably also showed an
> inability to reason.
>
>>
>>
>> Did you not read Creon's post about Parker? You are
>> Exhibit A for putting biblical dogma above conscience.
>
> I don’t remember seeing it much less reading it.
> Your rationale, as well as his, is based on bias’, if that is your
> conclusion.
>
> Historically there has been many forms of slavery, slave owners,
> treatment of Slaves, and in the Bible, Joseph was a slave in Egypt yet
> out of that he became ruler of all of Egypt ruling with the same
> authority as the Pharaoh that was alive at the time.

Hebrews kept as slaves = bad.

Hebrews keeping slaves = good.

Biblical situational ethics.

When a man strikes his male or female slave with
a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he
shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives
for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since
the slave is his own property.
Exodus 21:20-21

In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in news:v30ev1
$3ldh6$1@dont-email.me:

> On 26/05/2024 11:37 pm, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
>> news:v2upbe$3aomp$2@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 26/05/2024 5:01 pm, Maximus wrote:
>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>> (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-
september.org:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-
september.org
>>>>>>>>>> :
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-
september.o
>>>>>>>>>>>> rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> er.o rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart with enmity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and eternal life with him.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>>>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Which is it?
>>>>>>>>> None of them.
>>>>>>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>>>>>>> everything that happens.
>>>>>>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>>>> Such as........?
>>>>> Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>>>>>>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>>>>> Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
>>>>>> and tell us how children dying of cancer
>>>>>> are part of a "Divine Plan".
>>>>> What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for
>>>>> these things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The
destroyer/
>>>>
>>>> I think you make this stuff up as you go along. you claim God
created
>>>> everything, now you say Satan created cancer.
>>>
>>> That is a valid point.
>>>
>>>
>>>> but those of us who know
>>>> better know diseases are from a biological source, not from beings
>>>> that don't exist
>>>
>>> But that is not a valid point.
>>>
>>> Why?
>>>
>>> Because things can't create themselves.
>>
>>
>>
>> So all diseases were created by God.
>>
>> Why?
>
> You have been told way, you know why, and many times it has been
> recounted, but you do not care.
>
> You get a choice, disease (your own ways) or Him.

Evasion noted.

Who created diseases?

Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
news:0001HW.2C03CDBF00083AD330667038F@news.eternal-september.org:

> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> (in article <XnsB17E58E3D7CB4629555@185.151.15.190>):
>
>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> news:0001HW.2C02E95F0026A45830F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>> > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > (in article <XnsB17DD16CF5DC4629555@185.151.15.160>):
>> >
>> > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> > > news:0001HW.2C02686F00086C1630F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>> > >
>> > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > > > (in article <XnsB17D868A876F629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> > > >
>> > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> > > > > news:0001HW.2C024E2C0002443930F47438F@news.eternal-september.o
>> > > > > rg:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D5438AEAB8629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Orlando Enrique Fiol<ofiol@verizon.net> wrote in
>> > > > > > > news:MPG.40bb0a01b04affd198968f@news.eternal-september.org
>> > > > > > > :
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > In article<lb53k4Ffj3rU5@mid.individual.net>,
>> > > > > > > > creon@creon.earth writes:
>> > > > > > > > > Doesn't make any sense. Maybe it made sense to
>> > > > > > > > > medievals.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > It's because God loves us that he's given us
>> > > > > > > > commandments which, when disobeyed, inevitably cause
>> > > > > > > > pain and suffering to everyone involved. An unloving
>> > > > > > > > God would have left us to figure out how to live with
>> > > > > > > > one another by trial and error, with the strong doing
>> > > > > > > > what they can and the weak doing what
>> > > > > > > > they must.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Does God Himself obey the Ten Commandments?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > God as the man Jesus Christ lived and followed ALL the Law.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > God as God is a mass murderer.
>> > > >
>> > > > You use the term ‘murderer’ falsely and you know it.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Why did he kill the first-born
>> > > > > children in Egypt? They had done
>> > > > > nothing to offend him.
>> > > >
>> > > > There is a list of things they had done to offend Him, most of
>> > > > which you know from your past studies.
>> > >
>> > > Name them. Name just ONE thing the
>> > > first born CHILDREN did to offend God.
>> > > And don't for He killed all the first
>> > > born animals as well. What had THEY
>> > > done to offend your god?
>> >
>> > They hated their God, they hated the dependents of Abraham and
>> > Isaac and enslaved them. IOW they mistreated the Chosen People.
>>
>> The children - and animals - of Egypt
>> "hated their God"?
>
> The children were taught that just like the children of the Palestines
> were and are taught to hate the Hebrew.
>
> The animals were owned by the families who suffered the same fate, and
> all the animals of those who did as Moses instructed lived. They all
> had the same choice, whether Egyptian or Hebrew.
>
> Just like today, you have the same choice as to follow the Lord or
> reject him.
>>
>> Where does the Bible say THAT?
>
> You have the Bible, look it up.
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Why did God kill Er? He had
>> > > > > done nothing wrong.
>> > > >
>> > > > “And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the
>> > > > LORD; and the LORD slew him.” (Gen 38:7, KJV)
>> > >
>> > > Bingo. What had Er DONE?
>> >
>> > Ask God, I just told you the answer. Bingo.
>>
>> Evasion noted. What had Er actually DONE?
>
> Does it matter the specific details? Who are you to second Guess the
> one who set all things in motion, including you. You who has the free
> will to oppose eternal life and select eternal death as your preferred
> choice.
>>
>>
>> > > > The same with his brother.
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Why did God kill everyone in
>> > > > > Ye Floode? They broke no "godly"
>> > > > > rules.
>> > > >
>> > > > They were all followers of Satan. Given over to great Evil.
>> > >
>> > > The Bible doesn't say that.
>> > >
>> > > Don't you read your Bible?
>> >
>> > Gen 6:5 (AMPC) The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in
>> > the earth, and that every imagination and intention of all human
>> > thinking was only evil continually.
>>
>> So God killed all humanity for not
>> obeying the laws he never gave them. And
>> no chsnce of redemption, no option of
>> forgiveness.
>
> The did have a choice,

Where did God give them a choice?

Cite the Bible passage.

> many of Gods people told and warned the others,
> they all listened with the exact same interest as you exhibit. Not
> just you, but your wife, the others who claim to adhere to the
> religion of atheism.
>
> You studied this too, at one time.
>>
>>
>> And as for the "wickedness" of all
>> the animals he killed, well, maybe you
>> can explain that one as well.
>
> I already did, years ago.

Where did God give the animals a choice?

Cite the Bible passage.

> You have shown everyone in asking that just
> how honestly you ask the question. You have no desire for the turn but
> follow the path of contention, just like some “christians” do.

On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:41:06 -0700, Robert wrote:

> On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
> (in article<hmd75jdlcsh5v6qddb0l4jqct32ohkj4vj@4ax.com>):
>
>> Robert wrote:
>> > On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
>> > > Robert wrote:
>> > > > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > > > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
>> > > > > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious
notions
>> > > > > > > there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say
embracing
>> > > > > > > religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > ''
>> > > > > > The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
>> > > > > > directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as
even on
>> > > > > > Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can
be
>> > > > > > superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with
reason, utter
>> > > > > > the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will
authority. It
>> > > > > > can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim
obedience. What
>> > > > > > God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of his own;
so
>> > > > > > nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on
reason and
>> > > > > > conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it
may. One
>> > > > > > chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring natural
morality and
>> > > > > > natural religion to their original and proper place,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
>> > > >
>> > > > First you need to know what you are talking about, and understand
without
>> > > > throwing shade.
>> > > >
>> > > > All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a bad side
>> > > > which
>> > > > left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
>> > > > Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
>> > > > Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a place
for it.
>> > > > Murder in any form is just as evil.
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
>> > > > > will not be freed at the end of six years as the
>> > > > > men are.
>> > > > > Exodus 21:7-11
>> > > >
>> > > > This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of
slavery most
>> > > > think of as overblown by evil people. This was a willing
indenture, like
>> > > > when
>> > > > you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for a
shorter
>> > > > time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer than the
years that
>> > > > the
>> > > > Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more
complicated topic
>> > > > that this brief explanation, and yes, I know that most people do
not get
>> > > > it.
>> > > > But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to feed
and
>> > > > clothe
>> > > > their families instead of opting to die prematurely of starvation
or
>> > > > freeze
>> > > > to death. This was also common in the early days of America
regardless of
>> > > > race. Even in the biblical times many “slaves” could buy back
their
>> > > > freedom from the monies earned for their work. Some never opted
out,
>> > > > content
>> > > > to work for their living and get a little spending money on top
of all the
>> > > > other benefits provided them. Bigots will never understand what I
am
>> > > > saying,
>> > > > and they would be the same type of people who would treat their
slaves
>> > > > poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh words
and bad
>> > > > attitudes.
>> > >
>> > > So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.
>> >
>> > I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the various
meanings
>> > for the one English word called slavery.
>>
>> No, there aren't "various meanings" for slavery. A slave
>> is a person who is owned by another person, a practice
>> which you obviously condone.
>
> https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/
>
> https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/modern-slavery/
>
> https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/slavery-uk/
>
> None of this has to do with religions.
>
>> > Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and don’t’s of
your
>> > life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do they dangle in front of you,
what
>> > actual freedoms do you have to keep on being an employee. Think about
it.
>>
>> Pure hyperbole. False equivalence.
>
> What makes you think so? Too tired to think, or are you just another
frog in
> a pot of boiling water.
>>
>>
>> > A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar paid
football
>> > players who made a point out of their slavery by the white man, and
what
>> > they
>>
>> That's MX-stupid.
>
> Nevertheless it was well stated in the news.
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> > > If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
>> > > it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?
>> >
>> > The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world? What
about
>> > pimps and their women?
>> > What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the dole?
People
>> > that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What about the countries
>> > controlled by Dictators?
>> >
>> > My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.
>>
>> I'll take that as a "yes slavery is still perfectly
>> justified because political prisoners in Red China are
>> forced to make plastic toys for Happy Meals."
>
> All forms of slavery are NOT justified, never said or intimidated that
it is.
> You just blew your cred's irretrievably also showed an inability to
reason.
>
>>
>>
>> Did you not read Creon's post about Parker? You are
>> Exhibit A for putting biblical dogma above conscience.
>
> I don’t remember seeing it much less reading it.
> Your rationale, as well as his, is based on bias’, if that is your
> conclusion.

You didn't read my post quoting from Theodore Parker's sermon,
"The Transient and Permanent in Christianity"?

Shall I post it again? Even so, any scholar of theology should
be aware of it, even if they don't agree with it. He was one
of the guiding lights during the Great Awakening.

Theodore Parker was a staunch abolitionist, who gave refuge in
his own home to escaped slaves. He argued with Southern preachers
who used the Bible to justify slavery. Those two paragraphs of his
outline just why one should not succumb to the error of Biblical
inerrancy, concluding:

=| Of the scriptures, then, it may be said, as it has been of
the Sabbath: "The Bible was made for man, not man for
the Bible." |=

Why? Because:

=| The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are directly
from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even on Horeb, or
Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be superior to these
instructors. |=

> Would you rather a family starve to death rather than indenture
> themselves as a slave to survive poor economic times, droughts, etc,?

*That* is your only solution to the problems you outline? _Slavery_?

*That* is disgusting, and you are being absurd.

--
-c

Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
news:0001HW.2C03D34E0009885C30667038F@news.eternal-september.org:

> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> (in article <XnsB17E59C916DC5629555@185.151.15.190>):
>
>> Maximus <gladiator@colosseum.rome> wrote in
>> news:lbfl7fF5di8U1@mid.individual.net:
>>
>> > Robert wrote:
>> > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > > (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> > >
>> > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> > > > news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org
>> > > > :
>> > > >
>> > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > > > > (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> > > > > > news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september
>> > > > > > .org:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-septe
>> > > > > > > > mber.org:
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> > > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-s
>> > > > > > > > > > eptember.o rg:
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there
>> > > > > > > > > > > will be no peace. Satan comes to kill, and
>> > > > > > > > > > > destroy, filling the heart
>> > > > > > > > > > > with enmity.
>> > > > > > > > > > And God does nothing about that
>> > > > > > > > > > because he hates humanity, could care
>> > > > > > > > > > less about humanity, is powerless to
>> > > > > > > > > > prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > Which is it, do you think?
>> > > > > > > > > He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have
>> > > > > > > > > peace, and eternal life with him.
>> > > > > > > > The question was about Satan.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Why does God permit him to
>> > > > > > > > "kill and destroy”?
>> > > > > > > Man did,
>> > > > > > __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > __God is powerless to stop Satan
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > __God doesn't care either way
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Which is it?
>> > > > > None of them.
>> > > > So God is NOT incontrol of
>> > > > everything that happens.
>> > > There are other options that you are not aware of.
>> > > >
>> > > > So much for the Divine Plan.....
>> > > The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>> > > We were given a heads up, 1,000’s of years ago. Yet you fully
>> > > ignore it.
>> >
>> > how unfortunate that God relies on mere mortals such as you to tell
>> > us his wishes. he can (supposedly) create a Universe but cannot
>> > (for example) patch into our communication systems and send
>> > messages directly.
>>
>> That is one of the most bizarre
>> parts of Christianity.
>>
>> God wants to convey a message to
>> all mankind, so he has one person
>> preach it in a backwater desert
>> province and makes no arrangement for
>> this message to be even written down
>> much less broadcast to the whole world.
>
> The Good News of God was preached and taught and lived by Jesus the
> Christ, whose words are recorded in the NT and prophesied of in the
> OT.
>

Not one word of Jesus was written down
until dacades after his death. Even Plato
and Buddha - centuries before Jesus - made
arrangements for scribes to record what they
said. And the Son of God didn't?

Was His message just not important enough?

On Mon, 27 May 2024 01:27:09 +0000, Mitchell Holman wrote:

> Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
> news:lbhb0aFcumvU1@mid.individual.net:
>
>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 13:21:46 +0000, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>
>>> Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
>>> news:lbg5eiF6te2U3@mid.individual.net:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious notions
>>>>> there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say embracing
>>>>> religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
>>>>
>>>> ''
>>>> The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
>>>> directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even on
>>>> Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be
>>>> superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with reason,
>>>> utter the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will
>>>> authority. It can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim
>>>> obedience. What God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of
>>>> his own; so nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding
>>>> on reason and conscience, let it be taught on what external authority
>>>> it may. One chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring
>>>> natural morality and natural religion to their original and proper
>>>> place,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
>>>
>>>
>> Theodore Parker was an abolitionist, and took into his home escaped
>> slaves.
>>
>> He also argued with the Southern weirdos that tried to use the Bible to
>> justify slavery.
>>
>>
>
> There is no such thing as "natural morality".

He thought there was.

To put it one way (mine), morals could be considered the
ethics of conscience. Conscience is from nature, and
systems of ethics can be derived from game theory, part
of information theory and mathematics, which can
be considered part of the very fabric of the cosmos.

Given that, doesn't that outline a kind of "natural morality",
at least enough for Theodore Parker's purposes in his
sermon?

--
-c

On Sun, 26 May 2024 18:39:06 -0700, % wrote:

> Creon wrote:
>>> Indeed, why did you bring cancer upon yourself?
>>
>> That's not what the Bible says.
>>
>> Deuteronomy 28
>>
>> 27 The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the
>> emerods,
>> and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.
>> 28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and
>> astonishment of
>> heart:
>>
>> ...and so forth.
>>
>> (Of course, God wouldn't actually do that -- it's just the evolutionary
>> mechanism in nature.)
>>
> wasn't that written 2,000 years agi

More than that -- Deuteronomy was written in pieces
dating several hundred years BCE.

--
-c

Mitchell Holman wrote:
> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> news:0001HW.2C02E95F0026A45830F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> (in article <XnsB17DD16CF5DC4629555@185.151.15.160>):
>>
>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>> news:0001HW.2C02686F00086C1630F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>
>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>> (in article <XnsB17D868A876F629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>
>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024E2C0002443930F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D5438AEAB8629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Orlando Enrique Fiol<ofiol@verizon.net> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:MPG.40bb0a01b04affd198968f@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In article<lb53k4Ffj3rU5@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>>>>> creon@creon.earth writes:
>>>>>>>>> Doesn't make any sense. Maybe it made sense to medievals.
>>>>>>>> It's because God loves us that he's given us commandments
>>>>>>>> which, when disobeyed, inevitably cause pain and suffering
>>>>>>>> to everyone involved. An unloving God would have left us to
>>>>>>>> figure out how to live with one another by trial and error,
>>>>>>>> with the strong doing what they can and the weak doing what
>>>>>>>> they must.
>>>>>>> Does God Himself obey the Ten Commandments?
>>>>>> God as the man Jesus Christ lived and followed ALL the Law.
>>>>> God as God is a mass murderer.
>>>> You use the term ‘murderer’ falsely and you know it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why did he kill the first-born
>>>>> children in Egypt? They had done
>>>>> nothing to offend him.
>>>> There is a list of things they had done to offend Him, most of
>>>> which you know from your past studies.
>>> Name them. Name just ONE thing the
>>> first born CHILDREN did to offend God.
>>> And don't for He killed all the first
>>> born animals as well. What had THEY
>>> done to offend your god?
>> They hated their God, they hated the dependents of Abraham and Isaac
>> and enslaved them. IOW they mistreated the Chosen People.
>
> The children - and animals - of Egypt
> "hated their God"?
>
> Where does the Bible say THAT?
>
>
>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why did God kill Er? He had
>>>>> done nothing wrong.
>>>> “And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD;
>>>> and the LORD slew him.” (Gen 38:7, KJV)
>>> Bingo. What had Er DONE?
>> Ask God, I just told you the answer. Bingo.
>
> Evasion noted. What had Er actually DONE?
>
>
>
>>>> The same with his brother.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why did God kill everyone in
>>>>> Ye Floode? They broke no "godly"
>>>>> rules.
>>>> They were all followers of Satan. Given over to great Evil.
>>> The Bible doesn't say that.
>>>
>>> Don't you read your Bible?
>> Gen 6:5 (AMPC) The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in
>> the earth, and that every imagination and intention of all human
>> thinking was only evil continually.
>
> So God killed all humanity for not
> obeying the laws he never gave them.

not only that, but supposedly EVERY person on the planet was evil,
according to the text, which would include children and babies of course.

> And
> no chance of redemption, no option of
> forgiveness.

from the loving and merciful god

>
> And as for the "wickedness" of all
> the animals he killed, well, maybe you
> can explain that one as well.
>

--
“Atheism is the birth right of all human, remember that!”- hhyapster 7.4.23

"Christian beliefs fail against reason, facts, and knowledge"

"Religion is not about truth, it's about lifestyle"

"God is a convenient explanation for what man does not understand.
The less that's inexplicable, the less need for a 'God' explanation."

"The problem with theism is that it never remains within
the realm of belief, but invariably proceeds to assertion"

Mitchell Holman wrote:
> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in news:v30ev1
> $3ldh6$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 26/05/2024 11:37 pm, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
>>> news:v2upbe$3aomp$2@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> On 26/05/2024 5:01 pm, Maximus wrote:
>>>>> Robert wrote:
>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-
> september.org:
>>>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-
> september.org
>>>>>>>>>>> :
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-
> september.o
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> er.o rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart with enmity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and eternal life with him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>>>>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it?
>>>>>>>>>> None of them.
>>>>>>>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>>>>>>>> everything that happens.
>>>>>>>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>>>>> Such as........?
>>>>>> Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
>>>>>>>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>>>>>>>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>>>>>> Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
>>>>>>> and tell us how children dying of cancer
>>>>>>> are part of a "Divine Plan".
>>>>>> What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for
>>>>>> these things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The
> destroyer/
>>>>> I think you make this stuff up as you go along. you claim God
> created
>>>>> everything, now you say Satan created cancer.
>>>> That is a valid point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> but those of us who know
>>>>> better know diseases are from a biological source, not from beings
>>>>> that don't exist
>>>> But that is not a valid point.
>>>>
>>>> Why?
>>>>
>>>> Because things can't create themselves.
>>>
>>>
>>> So all diseases were created by God.
>>>
>>> Why?
>> You have been told way, you know why, and many times it has been
>> recounted, but you do not care.
>>
>> You get a choice, disease (your own ways) or Him.

anyone can get a disease. christians get diseases and die. sickness has
nothing to do with being xtain or not.

>
> Evasion noted.
>
> Who created diseases?
>
>
>
>

--
“Atheism is the birth right of all human, remember that!”- hhyapster 7.4.23

"Christian beliefs fail against reason, facts, and knowledge"

"Religion is not about truth, it's about lifestyle"

"God is a convenient explanation for what man does not understand.
The less that's inexplicable, the less need for a 'God' explanation."

"The problem with theism is that it never remains within
the realm of belief, but invariably proceeds to assertion"