On Sat, 25 May 2024 19:02:39 -0700, Robert wrote:

> On May 25, 2024, Andrew W wrote
> (in article <v2u2pq$3421q$1@dont-email.me>):
>
>> "Robert" wrote in message
>> news:0001HW.2C02C345001DB61A30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org...
>> >
>> > On May 25, 2024, Andrew W wrote
>> > (in article <v2tul2$33g1t$1@dont-email.me>):
>> >
>> > > "In the Name of Jesus" wrote in message
>> > > news:v2tr8g$32fph$3@dont-email.me...
>> > > >
>> > > > On 26/05/2024 8:48 am, Andrew W wrote:
>> > > > > "Robert" wrote in message
>> > > > > news:0001HW.2C02686F00086C1630F47438F@news.eternal-september.org...
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D868A876F629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C024E2C0002443930F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D5438AEAB8629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Orlando Enrique Fiol<ofiol@verizon.net> wrote in
>> > > > > > > > > news:MPG.40bb0a01b04affd198968f@news.eternal-september.org:
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > In article<lb53k4Ffj3rU5@mid.individual.net>,
>> > > > > > > > > > creon@creon.earth
>> > > > > > > > > > writes:
>> > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't make any sense. Maybe it made sense to medievals.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > It's because God loves us that he's given us commandments
>> > > > > > > which, > > > when
>> > > > > > > > > > disobeyed, inevitably cause pain and suffering to everyone
>> > > > > > > > involved.
>> > > > > > > > > > An unloving God would have left us to figure out how to
>> > > > > > > > > > live
>> > > > > > > with > > > one
>> > > > > > > > > > another by trial and error, with the strong doing what they
>> > > > > > > > > > can
>> > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > > the weak doing what they must.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Does God Himself obey the Ten Commandments?
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > God as the man Jesus Christ lived and followed ALL the Law.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > God as God is a mass murderer.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > You use the term ‘murderer’ falsely and you know it.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Right, they were blood sacrifices. Jesus was also a blood sacrifice,
>> > > > > just
>> > > > > like the old pagan religions that came before.
>> > > >
>> > > > > Why does a non physical creator of the universe need human blood from
>> > > > > one
>> > > > > speck of dust in this big universe?
>> > > >
>> > > > You do right in calling God the Creator of the universe.
>> > > >
>> > > > How is it you know more than Him?
>> > >
>> > > We're talking about two different Gods/gods. The real Creator, and the
>> > > false
>> > > always angry blood thirsty Christian/Bible version. There was a big
>> > > switch
>> > > and change over of gods from the OT to the NT which is already very sus.
>> >
>> > Guess you had better check with the facts checker. You are in error.
>>
>> No. I think you never did any research on this subject. Most people don't
>> bother. They just follow 'authorities' who are very often corrupt and have
>> agendas. You check into that.
>
> I have, and the issue was resolved. Jesus is Jehovah.

Then why did Jesus teach his disciples to pray
to "Our Father, who art in Heaven"?

We're talking the Lord's Prayer here -- you can't ignore that.

--
-c

On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:

> if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious notions there's no
> telling were it will lead. that's why I say embracing religious ideas is
> perilous and unwise.

''
The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are directly
from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even on Horeb, or Sinai
or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be superior to these
instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter the same sentiments
with conscience; and so far it will authority. It can never contradict
these counselors, and yet claim obedience. What God has made cannot be
unmade by any power short of his own; so nothing arbitrary or capricious can
ever become binding on reason and conscience, let it be taught on what
external authority it may. One chief merit of Christianity consists in
restoring natural morality and natural religion to their original and proper
place, in permitting conscience, reason and the religious sentiment to speak
in their native, heavenly tones, and with their primitive authority. By
thus restoring natural religion, by thus appealing to those divine
counselors and prophets of eternity, it overthrows all arbitrary systems of
religion which are not founded in the nature and reason of things; and puts
to eternal silence all capricious advisers. Thus by fulfilling the true,
the right, the good, and the holy, it destroys all that is false, wrong,
bad, and profane.

Other religions have also their sacred books. The Hindoos [sic] have their
Vedas and puranas ; Mahometans their Koran ; sectarians their creed. These
books are deemed by the foolish among their followers greater than the soul,
superior to conscience, reason and the religious sentiment. They are
appealed to as masters, the last standard of faith, are honored as the sole
and exclusive foundation of these peculiar religions systems. They can only
be the basis of a system that is not founded in the nature and reason of
things. Faith in the peculiar institutions of such books, in the Vedas,
Korans and creeds, in any arbitrary system, is not freedom but bondage. It
is not obedience to the universal "law of the spirit of life," but to some
partial statute of man's device. It degrades man while it comforts him. It
puts his better nature to a deadly sleep before it offers him relief from
the present, or faith for the future. Such systems the apostle well calls
the "Hagars shapen in ignorance, born into bondage with their children,
which are to be driven out before the freeborn Isaac, and destined like
Ishmael to have their hand against every man." Of the scriptures, then, it
may be said, as it has been of the Sabbath: "The Bible was made for man, not
man for the Bible."
''
-Theodore Parker, _The Transient and Permanent in Christianity_

--
-c

On 26/05/2024 11:18 am, Andrew W wrote:
> "In the Name of Jesus"  wrote in message
> news:v2u03k$32fpg$5@dont-email.me...
>>
>> On 26/05/2024 10:10 am, Andrew W wrote:
>>> "In the Name of Jesus"  wrote in message
>>> news:v2tr8g$32fph$3@dont-email.me...
>>>>
>>>> On 26/05/2024 8:48 am, Andrew W wrote:
>>>>> "Robert"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:0001HW.2C02686F00086C1630F47438F@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D868A876F629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024E2C0002443930F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>> > (in article <XnsB17D5438AEAB8629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > > Orlando Enrique Fiol<ofiol@verizon.net>  wrote in
>>>>>>> > > news:MPG.40bb0a01b04affd198968f@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > > > In article<lb53k4Ffj3rU5@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>>>> creon@creon.earth
>>>>>>> > > > writes:
>>>>>>> > > > > Doesn't make any sense. Maybe it made sense to medievals.
>>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>> > > > It's because God loves us that he's given us commandments
>>>>>>> which, > > > when
>>>>>>> > > > disobeyed, inevitably cause pain and suffering to everyone > >
>>>>>>> > involved.
>>>>>>> > > > An unloving God would have left us to figure out how to live
>>>>>>> with > > > one
>>>>>>> > > > another by trial and error, with the strong doing what they
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> > > > the weak doing what they must.
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > > Does God Himself obey the Ten Commandments?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > God as the man Jesus Christ lived and followed ALL the Law.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> God as God is a mass murderer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You use the term ‘murderer’ falsely and you know it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Right, they were blood sacrifices. Jesus was also a blood
>>>>> sacrifice, just like the old pagan religions that came before.
>>>>
>>>>> Why does a non physical creator of the universe need human blood
>>>>> from one speck of dust in this big universe?
>>>>
>>>> You do right in calling God the Creator of the universe.
>>>>
>>>> How is it you know more than Him?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> We're talking about two different Gods/gods. The real Creator, and
>>> the false always angry blood thirsty Christian/Bible version. There
>>> was a big switch and change over of gods from the OT to the NT which
>>> is already very sus.
>>
>> There is only One God and Creator.
>>
>
> And you don't know it.
>
>
>>
>> And you don't know more than Him.
>>
>> That is the point.
>>
>
> I never said that I did.

(sigh)

In the Name of Jesus

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that a sinner could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

What does a fool do? A fool looks for a "nothing" in a "something" in
order to explain the existence of existence.

"Unless you do all because He is who He is, all your religion is in vain."

"Every man is subject to God; He judges every man, and He is reality.
 What a gift in a fallen world!"

"Love MUST be a choice or it is nothing but a law!"

"Why were all men born sinners? So that God could reveal Himself, so
that we would behold the glory of God, and that we should bring forth
the glory of God"

"God does not and will not arbitrate for any man to love Him! If God
isn't everything to you, He is nothing to you where the rubber meets the
road."

"It is the unforgivable sin not to love God with all your heart, soul,
and mind. What do you have that is lasting? It is not so much being
punished; it is what you are left with."

On May 26, 2024, Maximus wrote
(in article <lbg520F7j1dU1@mid.individual.net>):

> Robert wrote:
> > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
> >
> > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > >
> > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > >
> > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
> > > > > > > > > rg:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
> > > > > > > > > > > er.o rg:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be
> > > > > > > > > > > > no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the
> > > > > > > > > > > > heart with enmity.
> > > > > > > > > > > And God does nothing about that
> > > > > > > > > > > because he hates humanity, could care
> > > > > > > > > > > less about humanity, is powerless to
> > > > > > > > > > > prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Which is it, do you think?
> > > > > > > > > > He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace,
> > > > > > > > > > and eternal life with him.
> > > > > > > > > The question was about Satan.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Why does God permit him to
> > > > > > > > > "kill and destroy”?
> > > > > > > > Man did,
> > > > > > > __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > __God is powerless to stop Satan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > __God doesn't care either way
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Which is it?
> > > > > > None of them.
> > > > > So God is NOT incontrol of
> > > > > everything that happens.
> > > > There are other options that you are not aware of.
> > > Such as........?
> > Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So much for the Divine Plan.....
> > > > The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
> > > Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
> > > and tell us how children dying of cancer
> > > are part of a "Divine Plan".
> > What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for these
> > things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The destroyer/
>
> I think you make this stuff up as you go along. you claim God created
> everything, now you say Satan created cancer. but those of us who know
> better know diseases are from a biological source, not from beings that
> don't exist

Actually while they might be transmitted in some cases biologically, that is
not necessarily true. Their origins are not always known. VooDoo curses,
witch curses etc, can be the source of many such things. It is rather obvious
to those in 3rd world countries. A person who lives in extreme bitterness
often exhibits physical maladies like arthritis, and so on.

Disease is not normal to the body, which is why the body fights it naturally.
And then of course Jesus paid the price for the healings of men, etc.

Yet all these things are not available to the atheist who is opposed to them,
and disbelief even limits Gods ability to work with people who say they are
christians.

In any event, satan, as the destroyer does just that. He corrupts all that he
touches.

On 26/05/2024 12:31 pm, Maximus wrote:
> Robert wrote:
>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>
>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>
>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>
>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
>>>>>>>>> rg:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be no
>>>>>>>>>> peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the heart
>>>>>>>>>> with enmity.
>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace, and
>>>>>>>> eternal life with him.
>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>
>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>
>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>
>>>>> Which is it?
>>>> None of them.
>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>> everything that happens.
>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>
>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>> We were given a heads up, 1,000’s of years ago. Yet you fully ignore it.
>>
>>
>
> how unfortunate that God relies on mere mortals such as you to tell us
> his wishes. he can (supposedly) create a Universe but cannot (for
> example) patch into our communication systems and send messages directly.
He did in the Lord Jesus Christ.

"You may say my unwillingness to obey is based on my inability to
believe, but it could be your inability to believe is based on your
unwillingness to obey."

Tim Keller

In the Name of Jesus

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that a sinner could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

What does a fool do? A fool looks for a "nothing" in a "something" in
order to explain the existence of existence.

"Unless you do all because He is who He is, all your religion is in vain."

"Every man is subject to God; He judges every man, and He is reality.
 What a gift in a fallen world!"

"Love MUST be a choice or it is nothing but a law!"

"Why were all men born sinners? So that God could reveal Himself, so
that we would behold the glory of God, and that we should bring forth
the glory of God"

"God does not and will not arbitrate for any man to love Him! If God
isn't everything to you, He is nothing to you where the rubber meets the
road."

"It is the unforgivable sin not to love God with all your heart, soul,
and mind. What do you have that is lasting? It is not so much being
punished; it is what you are left with."

"Love isn't worth anything without first a free will choice for God to
birth it in a man."

"The point of salvation: desperation. Anything less than that is
self-righteousness."

"A sinner is not a believer in God; a sinner is a believer in sin."

On 26/05/2024 5:01 pm, Maximus wrote:
> Robert wrote:
>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>
>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>> news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>
>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>
>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
>>>>>>>>> rg:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
>>>>>>>>>>> er.o rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>> no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the
>>>>>>>>>>>> heart with enmity.
>>>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace,
>>>>>>>>>> and eternal life with him.
>>>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which is it?
>>>>>> None of them.
>>>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>>>> everything that happens.
>>>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>> Such as........?
>> Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>>>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>> Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
>>> and tell us how children dying of cancer
>>> are part of a "Divine Plan".
>> What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for these
>> things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The destroyer/
>
> I think you make this stuff up as you go along. you claim God created
> everything, now you say Satan created cancer.

That is a valid point.

> but those of us who know
> better know diseases are from a biological source, not from beings that
> don't exist

But that is not a valid point.

Why?

Because things can't create themselves.

Michael Christ

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that a sinner could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

What does a fool do? A fool looks for a "nothing" in a "something" in
order to explain the existence of existence.

"Unless you do all because He is who He is, all your religion is in vain."

"Every man is subject to God; He judges every man, and He is reality.
 What a gift in a fallen world!"

On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote
(in article <lbg55pF6te2U2@mid.individual.net>):

> On Sat, 25 May 2024 19:02:39 -0700, Robert wrote:
>
> > On May 25, 2024, Andrew W wrote
> > (in article <v2u2pq$3421q$1@dont-email.me>):
> >
> > > "Robert" wrote in message
> > > news:0001HW.2C02C345001DB61A30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org...
> > > >
> > > > On May 25, 2024, Andrew W wrote
> > > > (in article <v2tul2$33g1t$1@dont-email.me>):
> > > >
> > > > > "In the Name of Jesus" wrote in message
> > > > > news:v2tr8g$32fph$3@dont-email.me...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 26/05/2024 8:48 am, Andrew W wrote:
> > > > > > > "Robert" wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C02686F00086C1630F47438F@news.eternal-september.org...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D868A876F629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C024E2C0002443930F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D5438AEAB8629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Orlando Enrique Fiol<ofiol@verizon.net> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > > news:MPG.40bb0a01b04affd198968f@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > In article<lb53k4Ffj3rU5@mid.individual.net>,
> > > > > > > > > > > > creon@creon.earth
> > > > > > > > > > > > writes:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't make any sense. Maybe it made sense to medievals.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > It's because God loves us that he's given us commandments
> > > > > > > > > which, > > > when
> > > > > > > > > > > > disobeyed, inevitably cause pain and suffering to everyone
> > > > > > > > > > involved.
> > > > > > > > > > > > An unloving God would have left us to figure out how to
> > > > > > > > > > > > live
> > > > > > > > > with > > > one
> > > > > > > > > > > > another by trial and error, with the strong doing what they
> > > > > > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > the weak doing what they must.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Does God Himself obey the Ten Commandments?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > God as the man Jesus Christ lived and followed ALL the Law.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > God as God is a mass murderer.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You use the term ‘murderer’ falsely and you know it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Right, they were blood sacrifices. Jesus was also a blood sacrifice,
> > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > like the old pagan religions that came before.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why does a non physical creator of the universe need human blood from
> > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > speck of dust in this big universe?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You do right in calling God the Creator of the universe.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How is it you know more than Him?
> > > > >
> > > > > We're talking about two different Gods/gods. The real Creator, and the
> > > > > false
> > > > > always angry blood thirsty Christian/Bible version. There was a big
> > > > > switch
> > > > > and change over of gods from the OT to the NT which is already very sus.
> > > >
> > > > Guess you had better check with the facts checker. You are in error.
> > >
> > > No. I think you never did any research on this subject. Most people don't
> > > bother. They just follow 'authorities' who are very often corrupt and have
> > > agendas. You check into that.
> >
> > I have, and the issue was resolved. Jesus is Jehovah.
>
> Then why did Jesus teach his disciples to pray
> to "Our Father, who art in Heaven"?
>
> We're talking the Lord's Prayer here -- you can't ignore that.

Because that was the God He prayed to. And when he left he told us to pray to
the Heavenly Father, not him.
Here is one example of that....

“And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give ityou. Hitherto
have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy
may be full.” (Jhn 16:23-24, KJV)

And again for the Born Again believer, here is Jesus stating that we both
have the same father, and that is why Jesus is the first born of many.

“Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my
Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father,
and your Father; and to my God, and your God.” (Jhn 20:17, KJV)

Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
news:lbg5eiF6te2U3@mid.individual.net:

> On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
>
>> if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious notions
>> there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say embracing
>> religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
>
> ''
> The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
> directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even on
> Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be
> superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
> the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will authority. It
> can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim obedience. What
> God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of his own; so
> nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on reason and
> conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it may. One
> chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring natural morality and
> natural religion to their original and proper place,

Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
will not be freed at the end of six years as the
men are.
Exodus 21:7-11

Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
news:0001HW.2C02EAF60027039430F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:

> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> (in article <XnsB17DD39B0FF3D629555@185.151.15.190>):
>
>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> news:0001HW.2C0265C30007CBBC30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>> > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > (in article <XnsB17D856FD386629555@185.151.15.160>):
>> >
>> > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> > > news:0001HW.2C024C150001C70430F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>> > >
>> > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > > > (in article <XnsB17D53917EE6F629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> > > >
>> > > > > In the Name of Jesus<michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
>> > > > > news:v2rn5e $2nfks$1@dont-email.me:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > On 25/05/2024 11:28 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> > > > > > > Michael Christ<michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
>> > > > > > > news:v2r2jt$2gpfd$1@dont-email.me:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > On 24/05/2024 8:59 pm, Maximus wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > "Rod E." <dx7066801@gmail.com> wrote in
>> > > > > > > > > > news:v2oha2$1vb8l$1@dont-email.me:
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > On 5/22/2024 7:48 AM, Maximus wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > > > Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Christ<michaelmclean92910@outlook.com>
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote in news:v2jp4n$100ao$2@dont-email.me:
>> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 22/05/2024 11:35 am, Mitchell Holman
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > news:lb4tmqFfj3rU1@mid.individual.net:
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 21 May 2024 17:16:47 -0500,
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ChristRose wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and saving you from
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eternal damnation.
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Damnation doctrine is spiritual
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >terrorism.
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One would do well not to doubt the
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >salvific
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > powers of God Almighty...in this life
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >or in any other He may have in store
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >for you.
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (signed)
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a Universalist.
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Religion has actually convinced
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > people that there's an invisible
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > man living in the sky who watches
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > everything you do, every minute of
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > every day. And the invisible man
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > has a special list of ten things he
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does not want you to do. And if you
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do any of these ten things, he has
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a special place, full of fire and
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smoke and burning and torture and
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anguish, where he will send you to
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > live and suffer and burn and choke
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and scream and cry forever and ever
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'til the end of time.
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But He loves you!"
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > George Carlin, Dec 23 2005
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Snapshot of an ignorant fool.
>> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > ÂÂÂÂ The original post was right, it
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > is spiritual terrorism.
>> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > ÂÂÂÂ "Do as I tell you or I will kill
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > you"
>> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > ÂÂÂÂÂÂ - kidnapper
>> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > ÂÂÂÂ "Believe as I tell you or suffer in
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hell" ÂÂÂÂÂÂ - Christianity
>> > > > > > > > > > > > the fear of suffering in hell is the basis of
>> > > > > > > > > > > > Xtianity. without
>> > > > > it
>> > > > > > > > > > > > there would be no need for salvation.
>> > > > > > > > > > > Conform or die? Sounds like the Catholic Church
>> > > > > speaking.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > Or the Protestant Church.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > "I should have no compassion on these
>> > > > > > > > > > witches; I should burn them all."
>> > > > > > > > > > Martin Luther
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > No,
>> > > > > > > > > > > there is more to following the rules than this.
>> > > > > > > > > > > People must be willing to live in peace together
>> > > > > > > > > > > or there can be no peace for anyone.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > Religions have never been able
>> > > > > > > > > > to live in peace together.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > so true!
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > "Snapshot of an ignorant fools."
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Yet more moron sweepings statements.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Man has never been able to live in peace together.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Wasn't Ye Floode supposed to fix that?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > The Lord Jesus Christ fixes the person.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Jim Jones, David Koresh, Jim Bakker,
>> > > > > every Pedophile Priest.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > We have seen what people "fixed by
>> > > > > Jesus" are like, indeed.
>> > > >
>> > > > Mat 7:15-17 (KJV)
>> > > >
>> > > > 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's
>> > > > clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
>> > > >
>> > > > 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of
>> > > > thorns, or figs of thistles?
>> > > >
>> > > > 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a
>> > > > corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
>> > > >
>> > > > You can see here that there were such men in the time of Jesus,
>> > > > as he was the one speaking theses words, true of that time,
>> > > > true of this time and culminating with the time of the
>> > > > antichrist coming very soon, in the flesh. ATM the spirit of
>> > > > the antichrist is leading these people and has been since the
>> > > > days of the Apostles.
>> > > >
>> > > > Look at the fruits these people gather. Like minded followers
>> > > > who speak as foul and vulgar as they do, or practice livings
>> > > > they do, all the while their leaders are taking advantage of
>> > > > them, people who are to follow their leader, what he says is
>> > > > truth, in spite of the fact that a lot of what they say is
>> > > > contrary to the truth, which can be verified by the story pole
>> > > > of the Bible. The Word of God.
>> > >
>> > > Mary Dyer was a follower of mid-wife and religious
>> > > activist Anne Marbury Hutchinson. Her views about
>> > > God and religion were considered heresy by the
>> > > Puritan religion In 1658, a law was passed banishing
>> > > Quakers under "pain of death." Mary Dyer was executed,
>> > > hanged for being a Quaker on June 1, 1660.
>> > >
>> > > http://www.womeninhistoryprograms.com/dyer.html
>> >
>> > That is the legacy of the RCC doctrines that carried forward over
>> > the the fence of the Reformation.
>>
>> Christians killing other Christians
>> for following the "wrong" Christianity.
>
> People calling themselves Christian does not make them one, and other
> who call people a christian, who are not, does not make the person a
> christian also. Many call others a christian just to slam them or put
> them in bad light before their fellows.

In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
news:v2upbe$3aomp$2@dont-email.me:

> On 26/05/2024 5:01 pm, Maximus wrote:
>> Robert wrote:
>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>> (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>
>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>> news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>
>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org
>>>>>>>> :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
>>>>>>>>>> rg:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
>>>>>>>>>>>> er.o rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart with enmity.
>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace,
>>>>>>>>>>> and eternal life with him.
>>>>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which is it?
>>>>>>> None of them.
>>>>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>>>>> everything that happens.
>>>>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>> Such as........?
>>> Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>>>>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>>> Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
>>>> and tell us how children dying of cancer
>>>> are part of a "Divine Plan".
>>> What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for
>>> these things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The destroyer/
>>
>> I think you make this stuff up as you go along. you claim God created
>> everything, now you say Satan created cancer.
>
> That is a valid point.
>
>
>> but those of us who know
>> better know diseases are from a biological source, not from beings
>> that don't exist
>
> But that is not a valid point.
>
> Why?
>
> Because things can't create themselves.

So all diseases were created by God.

Why?

Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
news:0001HW.2C02EB8E0027273D30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:

> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
>
>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>> > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> >
>> > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> > > news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>> > >
>> > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > > > (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> > > >
>> > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> > > > > news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
>> > > > > rg:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > > > > > (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
>> > > > > > > er.o rg:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-sep
>> > > > > > > > > temb er.o rg:
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will
>> > > > > > > > > > be no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy,
>> > > > > > > > > > filling the heart with enmity.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > And God does nothing about that
>> > > > > > > > > because he hates humanity, could care
>> > > > > > > > > less about humanity, is powerless to
>> > > > > > > > > prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Which is it, do you think?
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have
>> > > > > > > > peace, and eternal life with him.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > The question was about Satan.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Why does God permit him to
>> > > > > > > "kill and destroy”?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Man did,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>> > > > >
>> > > > > __God is powerless to stop Satan
>> > > > >
>> > > > > __God doesn't care either way
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Which is it?
>> > > >
>> > > > None of them.
>> > >
>> > > So God is NOT incontrol of
>> > > everything that happens.
>> >
>> > There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>
>> Such as........?
>
> Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.

What good does following Jesus do?
Christians get sick at same rate as
non Christians.

>>
>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > So much for the Divine Plan.....
>> >
>> > The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>
>> Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
>> and tell us how children dying of cancer
>> are part of a "Divine Plan".
>
> What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for
> these things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The destroyer/

So God is powerless to stop all
the illness caused by Satan. Or just
chooses not to.

Which is it?

Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
news:0001HW.2C02E95F0026A45830F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:

> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> (in article <XnsB17DD16CF5DC4629555@185.151.15.160>):
>
>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> news:0001HW.2C02686F00086C1630F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>> > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > (in article <XnsB17D868A876F629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> >
>> > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>> > > news:0001HW.2C024E2C0002443930F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>> > >
>> > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> > > > (in article <XnsB17D5438AEAB8629555@185.151.15.190>):
>> > > >
>> > > > > Orlando Enrique Fiol<ofiol@verizon.net> wrote in
>> > > > > news:MPG.40bb0a01b04affd198968f@news.eternal-september.org:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > In article<lb53k4Ffj3rU5@mid.individual.net>,
>> > > > > > creon@creon.earth writes:
>> > > > > > > Doesn't make any sense. Maybe it made sense to medievals.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > It's because God loves us that he's given us commandments
>> > > > > > which, when disobeyed, inevitably cause pain and suffering
>> > > > > > to everyone involved. An unloving God would have left us to
>> > > > > > figure out how to live with one another by trial and error,
>> > > > > > with the strong doing what they can and the weak doing what
>> > > > > > they must.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Does God Himself obey the Ten Commandments?
>> > > >
>> > > > God as the man Jesus Christ lived and followed ALL the Law.
>> > >
>> > > God as God is a mass murderer.
>> >
>> > You use the term ‘murderer’ falsely and you know it.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Why did he kill the first-born
>> > > children in Egypt? They had done
>> > > nothing to offend him.
>> >
>> > There is a list of things they had done to offend Him, most of
>> > which you know from your past studies.
>>
>> Name them. Name just ONE thing the
>> first born CHILDREN did to offend God.
>> And don't for He killed all the first
>> born animals as well. What had THEY
>> done to offend your god?
>
> They hated their God, they hated the dependents of Abraham and Isaac
> and enslaved them. IOW they mistreated the Chosen People.

The children - and animals - of Egypt
"hated their God"?

Where does the Bible say THAT?

>>
>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Why did God kill Er? He had
>> > > done nothing wrong.
>> >
>> > “And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD;
>> > and the LORD slew him.” (Gen 38:7, KJV)
>>
>> Bingo. What had Er DONE?
>
> Ask God, I just told you the answer. Bingo.

Evasion noted. What had Er actually DONE?

>> > The same with his brother.
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Why did God kill everyone in
>> > > Ye Floode? They broke no "godly"
>> > > rules.
>> >
>> > They were all followers of Satan. Given over to great Evil.
>>
>> The Bible doesn't say that.
>>
>> Don't you read your Bible?
>
> Gen 6:5 (AMPC) The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in
> the earth, and that every imagination and intention of all human
> thinking was only evil continually.

So God killed all humanity for not
obeying the laws he never gave them. And
no chsnce of redemption, no option of
forgiveness.

And as for the "wickedness" of all
the animals he killed, well, maybe you
can explain that one as well.

Maximus <gladiator@colosseum.rome> wrote in
news:lbfl7fF5di8U1@mid.individual.net:

> Robert wrote:
>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>
>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>
>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>
>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
>>>>>>>>> rg:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be no
>>>>>>>>>> peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the heart
>>>>>>>>>> with enmity.
>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace, and
>>>>>>>> eternal life with him.
>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>
>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>
>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>
>>>>> Which is it?
>>>> None of them.
>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>> everything that happens.
>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>
>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>> We were given a heads up, 1,000’s of years ago. Yet you fully
>> ignore it.
>>
>>
>
> how unfortunate that God relies on mere mortals such as you to tell us
> his wishes. he can (supposedly) create a Universe but cannot (for
> example) patch into our communication systems and send messages
> directly.
>

That is one of the most bizarre
parts of Christianity.

God wants to convey a message to
all mankind, so he has one person
preach it in a backwater desert
province and makes no arrangement for
this message to be even written down
much less broadcast to the whole world.

On Sun, 26 May 2024 13:21:46 +0000, Mitchell Holman wrote:

> Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
> news:lbg5eiF6te2U3@mid.individual.net:
>
>> On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
>>
>>> if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious notions
>>> there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say embracing
>>> religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
>>
>> ''
>> The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
>> directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even on
>> Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be
>> superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
>> the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will authority. It
>> can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim obedience. What
>> God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of his own; so
>> nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on reason and
>> conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it may. One
>> chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring natural morality and
>> natural religion to their original and proper place,
>
>
>
>
> Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
>

Theodore Parker was an abolitionist, and took into his home escaped slaves.

He also argued with the Southern weirdos that tried to use the Bible to justify
slavery.

--
-c

On 5/24/2024 8:59 PM, In the Name of Jesus wrote:
> On 25/05/2024 1:18 pm, Andrew W wrote:
>> "Orlando Enrique Fiol" wrote in message
>> news:MPG.40bb0a01b04affd198968f@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>
>>> In article <lb53k4Ffj3rU5@mid.individual.net>, creon@creon.earth writes:
>>>> Doesn't make any sense. Maybe it made sense to medievals.
>>>
>>> It's because God loves us that he's given us commandments which, when
>>> disobeyed, inevitably cause pain and suffering to everyone involved. An
>>> unloving God would have left us to figure out how to live with one
>>> another by
>>> trial and error, with the strong doing what they can and the weak
>>> doing what
>>> they must.
>>>
>>
>> Trial and error is the only proper way humans can learn.
>> Have the commandments worked so far? Nope. Why? Because the people who
>> really need to follow them ignore them. The Bible only preaches to the
>> choir. Useless.
>
> The bible does not preach, "Keep the 10 commandments (law)" in the New
> Testament of His blood.
>
>
>
>
>
> In the Name of Jesus.
>
He The true Bible, also tells you to keep his precepts, so its not just
10 commandments ( The Law ) statutes and Justices > and He also makes
it clear, you are not to be with them

5 But thus rather shall you deal with them: Destroy their altars, and
break their statues, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven
things. 6 Because thou art a holy people to the Lord thy God. The Lord
thy God hath chosen thee, to be his peculiar people of all peoples that
are upon the earth.

Jesus did not come to tell you to love all people, He came to cause
division between His People. and the devils. So go ahead infidels,
cause that is what you athiest are, say some more dumb shit that is not
true, and we shall cut your eyes out an burn your fake altars, For your
laws, and Our Laws, are not the same, And He did tell us, what they
are as WE do Do them an know them, Whether you like them or not pagans.
So expect to be excommunicated, for His Holy Bible and Laws, do not
change......

On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:45:49 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
<michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 26/05/2024 5:01 pm, Maximus wrote:
>> Robert wrote:
>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>> (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>
>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>> news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>
>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
>>>>>>>>>> rg:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
>>>>>>>>>>>> er.o rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart with enmity.
>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace,
>>>>>>>>>>> and eternal life with him.
>>>>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which is it?
>>>>>>> None of them.
>>>>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>>>>> everything that happens.
>>>>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>> Such as........?
>>> Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>>>>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>>> Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
>>>> and tell us how children dying of cancer
>>>> are part of a "Divine Plan".
>>> What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for these
>>> things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The destroyer/
>>
>> I think you make this stuff up as you go along. you claim God created
>> everything, now you say Satan created cancer.
>
>That is a valid point.

Why would God allow Satan to create cancer?

>> but those of us who know
>> better know diseases are from a biological source, not from beings that
>> don't exist
>
>But that is not a valid point.
>
>Why?
>
>Because things can't create themselves.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Michael Christ

On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
(in article <XnsB17E54AE8DCD6629555@185.151.15.160>):

> Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
> news:lbg5eiF6te2U3@mid.individual.net:
>
> > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
> >
> > > if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious notions
> > > there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say embracing
> > > religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
> >
> > ''
> > The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
> > directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even on
> > Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be
> > superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
> > the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will authority. It
> > can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim obedience. What
> > God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of his own; so
> > nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on reason and
> > conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it may. One
> > chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring natural morality and
> > natural religion to their original and proper place,
>
> Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?

First you need to know what you are talking about, and understand without
throwing shade.

All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a bad side which
left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a place for it.
Murder in any form is just as evil.

>
>
> When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
> will not be freed at the end of six years as the
> men are.
> Exodus 21:7-11

This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of slavery most
think of as overblown by evil people. This was a willing indenture, like when
you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for a shorter
time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer than the years that the
Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more complicated topic
that this brief explanation, and yes, I know that most people do not get it.
But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to feed and clothe
their families instead of opting to die prematurely of starvation or freeze
to death. This was also common in the early days of America regardless of
race. Even in the biblical times many “slaves” could buy back their
freedom from the monies earned for their work. Some never opted out, content
to work for their living and get a little spending money on top of all the
other benefits provided them. Bigots will never understand what I am saying,
and they would be the same type of people who would treat their slaves
poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh words and bad
attitudes.

On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
(in article <XnsB17E56AA0EBED629555@185.151.15.190>):

> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> news:0001HW.2C02EAF60027039430F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > (in article <XnsB17DD39B0FF3D629555@185.151.15.190>):
> >
> > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > news:0001HW.2C0265C30007CBBC30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > >
> > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > (in article <XnsB17D856FD386629555@185.151.15.160>):
> > > >
> > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > news:0001HW.2C024C150001C70430F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D53917EE6F629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > In the Name of Jesus<michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
> > > > > > > news:v2rn5e $2nfks$1@dont-email.me:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 25/05/2024 11:28 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Michael Christ<michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > news:v2r2jt$2gpfd$1@dont-email.me:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On 24/05/2024 8:59 pm, Maximus wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Mitchell Holman wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > "Rod E." <dx7066801@gmail.com> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > > > news:v2oha2$1vb8l$1@dont-email.me:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/22/2024 7:48 AM, Maximus wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mitchell Holman wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christ<michaelmclean92910@outlook.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote in news:v2jp4n$100ao$2@dont-email.me:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 22/05/2024 11:35 am, Mitchell Holman
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > news:lb4tmqFfj3rU1@mid.individual.net:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 21 May 2024 17:16:47 -0500,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ChristRose wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and saving you from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eternal damnation.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Damnation doctrine is spiritual
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > terrorism.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One would do well not to doubt the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > salvific
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > powers of God Almighty...in this life
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or in any other He may have in store
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for you.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (signed)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a Universalist.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Religion has actually convinced
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > people that there's an invisible
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > man living in the sky who watches
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > everything you do, every minute of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > every day. And the invisible man
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > has a special list of ten things he
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does not want you to do. And if you
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do any of these ten things, he has
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a special place, full of fire and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > smoke and burning and torture and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anguish, where he will send you to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > live and suffer and burn and choke
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and scream and cry forever and ever
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'til the end of time.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But He loves you!"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > George Carlin, Dec 23 2005
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Snapshot of an ignorant fool.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÂÂÂÂ The original post was right, it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is spiritual terrorism.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÂÂÂÂ "Do as I tell you or I will kill
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÂÂÂÂÂÂ - kidnapper
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÂÂÂÂ "Believe as I tell you or suffer in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hell" ÂÂÂÂÂÂ - Christianity
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the fear of suffering in hell is the basis of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Xtianity. without
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > there would be no need for salvation.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Conform or die? Sounds like the Catholic Church
> > > > > > > speaking.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Or the Protestant Church.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > "I should have no compassion on these
> > > > > > > > > > > > witches; I should burn them all."
> > > > > > > > > > > > Martin Luther
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > No,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > there is more to following the rules than this.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > People must be willing to live in peace together
> > > > > > > > > > > > > or there can be no peace for anyone.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Religions have never been able
> > > > > > > > > > > > to live in peace together.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > so true!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "Snapshot of an ignorant fools."
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Yet more moron sweepings statements.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Man has never been able to live in peace together.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Wasn't Ye Floode supposed to fix that?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The Lord Jesus Christ fixes the person.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jim Jones, David Koresh, Jim Bakker,
> > > > > > > every Pedophile Priest.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We have seen what people "fixed by
> > > > > > > Jesus" are like, indeed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mat 7:15-17 (KJV)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's
> > > > > > clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of
> > > > > > thorns, or figs of thistles?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a
> > > > > > corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You can see here that there were such men in the time of Jesus,
> > > > > > as he was the one speaking theses words, true of that time,
> > > > > > true of this time and culminating with the time of the
> > > > > > antichrist coming very soon, in the flesh. ATM the spirit of
> > > > > > the antichrist is leading these people and has been since the
> > > > > > days of the Apostles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Look at the fruits these people gather. Like minded followers
> > > > > > who speak as foul and vulgar as they do, or practice livings
> > > > > > they do, all the while their leaders are taking advantage of
> > > > > > them, people who are to follow their leader, what he says is
> > > > > > truth, in spite of the fact that a lot of what they say is
> > > > > > contrary to the truth, which can be verified by the story pole
> > > > > > of the Bible. The Word of God.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mary Dyer was a follower of mid-wife and religious
> > > > > activist Anne Marbury Hutchinson. Her views about
> > > > > God and religion were considered heresy by the
> > > > > Puritan religion In 1658, a law was passed banishing
> > > > > Quakers under "pain of death." Mary Dyer was executed,
> > > > > hanged for being a Quaker on June 1, 1660.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.womeninhistoryprograms.com/dyer.html
> > > >
> > > > That is the legacy of the RCC doctrines that carried forward over
> > > > the the fence of the Reformation.
> > >
> > > Christians killing other Christians
> > > for following the "wrong" Christianity.
> >
> > People calling themselves Christian does not make them one, and other
> > who call people a christian, who are not, does not make the person a
> > christian also. Many call others a christian just to slam them or put
> > them in bad light before their fellows.
>
> Who are you to decide what
> a Christian is?

On Sun, 26 May 2024 11:02:44 -0700, Vincent Maycock wrote:

> On Sun, 26 May 2024 17:45:49 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>>On 26/05/2024 5:01 pm, Maximus wrote:
>>> Robert wrote:
>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>> (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>
>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
>>>>>>>>>>> rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert <robert@no.way>  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
>>>>>>>>>>>>> er.o rg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart with enmity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And God does nothing about that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because he hates humanity, could care
>>>>>>>>>>>>> less about humanity, is powerless to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is it, do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>> He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and eternal life with him.
>>>>>>>>>>> The question was about Satan.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why does God permit him to
>>>>>>>>>>> "kill and destroy”?
>>>>>>>>>> Man did,
>>>>>>>>> __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __God is powerless to stop Satan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __God doesn't care either way
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Which is it?
>>>>>>>> None of them.
>>>>>>> So God is NOT incontrol of
>>>>>>> everything that happens.
>>>>>> There are other options that you are not aware of.
>>>>> Such as........?
>>>> Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So much for the Divine Plan.....
>>>>>> The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
>>>>> Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
>>>>> and tell us how children dying of cancer
>>>>> are part of a "Divine Plan".
>>>> What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for these
>>>> things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The destroyer/
>>>
>>> I think you make this stuff up as you go along. you claim God created
>>> everything, now you say Satan created cancer.
>>
>>That is a valid point.
>
> Why would God allow Satan to create cancer?
>

"Satan", in Christianity, can't create anything, nor
can he perform miracles.

Cancer evolved in the natural world.

But if you want to get _biblical_ about it...

Deut 28:

27 The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods,
and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.
28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of
heart:
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

It doesn't say "The LORD will allow Satan to..." -- HE, YHWH, is doing
the smiting.

(I don't personally believe God does any smiting with disease,
but that's not what the _Bible_ says...)

--
-c

On May 26, 2024, Robert wrote
(in article<0001HW.2C0320A50033988A30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org>):

> On May 26, 2024, Creon wrote
> (in article <lbg55pF6te2U2@mid.individual.net>):
>
> > On Sat, 25 May 2024 19:02:39 -0700, Robert wrote:
> >
> > > On May 25, 2024, Andrew W wrote
> > > (in article <v2u2pq$3421q$1@dont-email.me>):
> > >
> > > > "Robert" wrote in message
> > > > news:0001HW.2C02C345001DB61A30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org...
> > > > >
> > > > > On May 25, 2024, Andrew W wrote
> > > > > (in article <v2tul2$33g1t$1@dont-email.me>):
> > > > >
> > > > > > "In the Name of Jesus" wrote in message
> > > > > > news:v2tr8g$32fph$3@dont-email.me...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 26/05/2024 8:48 am, Andrew W wrote:
> > > > > > > > "Robert" wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C02686F00086C1630F47438F@news.eternal-september.org...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D868A876F629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C024E2C0002443930F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D5438AEAB8629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Orlando Enrique Fiol<ofiol@verizon.net> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > > > news:MPG.40bb0a01b04affd198968f@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > In article<lb53k4Ffj3rU5@mid.individual.net>,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > creon@creon.earth
> > > > > > > > > > > > > writes:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't make any sense. Maybe it made sense to medievals.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > It's because God loves us that he's given us commandments
> > > > > > > > > > which, > > > when
> > > > > > > > > > > > > disobeyed, inevitably cause pain and suffering to everyone
> > > > > > > > > > > involved.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > An unloving God would have left us to figure out how to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > live
> > > > > > > > > > with > > > one
> > > > > > > > > > > > > another by trial and error, with the strong doing what they
> > > > > > > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the weak doing what they must.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Does God Himself obey the Ten Commandments?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > God as the man Jesus Christ lived and followed ALL the Law.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > God as God is a mass murderer.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You use the term ‘murderer’ falsely and you know it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Right, they were blood sacrifices. Jesus was also a blood sacrifice,
> > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > like the old pagan religions that came before.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why does a non physical creator of the universe need human blood from
> > > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > speck of dust in this big universe?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You do right in calling God the Creator of the universe.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How is it you know more than Him?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We're talking about two different Gods/gods. The real Creator, and the
> > > > > > false
> > > > > > always angry blood thirsty Christian/Bible version. There was a big
> > > > > > switch
> > > > > > and change over of gods from the OT to the NT which is already very sus.
> > > > >
> > > > > Guess you had better check with the facts checker. You are in error.
> > > >
> > > > No. I think you never did any research on this subject. Most people don't
> > > > bother. They just follow 'authorities' who are very often corrupt and have
> > > > agendas. You check into that.
> > >
> > > I have, and the issue was resolved. Jesus is Jehovah.
> >
> > Then why did Jesus teach his disciples to pray
> > to "Our Father, who art in Heaven"?
> >
> > We're talking the Lord's Prayer here -- you can't ignore that.
>
> Because that was the God He prayed to. And when he left he told us to pray to
> the Heavenly Father, not him.
> Here is one example of that....
>
> “And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you,
> Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give ityou. Hitherto
> have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy
> may be full.” (Jhn 16:23-24, KJV)
>
> And again for the Born Again believer, here is Jesus stating that we both
> have the same father, and that is why Jesus is the first born of many.
>
> “Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my
> Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father,
> and your Father; and to my God, and your God.” (Jhn 20:17, KJV)

After I post this I was immediately reminded that I should have referenced
how the Lord began the prayer,...
“After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.” (Mat 6:9, KJV)

“Our Father?

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to
his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the
resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,” (1Pe 1:3, KJV)

We must remember that there is a Godhead. They are as one, one in unity. Like
we are supposed to be one in and with Jesus the Messiah.

On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
(in article <XnsB17E58E3D7CB4629555@185.151.15.190>):

> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> news:0001HW.2C02E95F0026A45830F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > (in article <XnsB17DD16CF5DC4629555@185.151.15.160>):
> >
> > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > news:0001HW.2C02686F00086C1630F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > >
> > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > (in article <XnsB17D868A876F629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > >
> > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > news:0001HW.2C024E2C0002443930F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D5438AEAB8629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Orlando Enrique Fiol<ofiol@verizon.net> wrote in
> > > > > > > news:MPG.40bb0a01b04affd198968f@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In article<lb53k4Ffj3rU5@mid.individual.net>,
> > > > > > > > creon@creon.earth writes:
> > > > > > > > > Doesn't make any sense. Maybe it made sense to medievals.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It's because God loves us that he's given us commandments
> > > > > > > > which, when disobeyed, inevitably cause pain and suffering
> > > > > > > > to everyone involved. An unloving God would have left us to
> > > > > > > > figure out how to live with one another by trial and error,
> > > > > > > > with the strong doing what they can and the weak doing what
> > > > > > > > they must.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Does God Himself obey the Ten Commandments?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > God as the man Jesus Christ lived and followed ALL the Law.
> > > > >
> > > > > God as God is a mass murderer.
> > > >
> > > > You use the term ‘murderer’ falsely and you know it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Why did he kill the first-born
> > > > > children in Egypt? They had done
> > > > > nothing to offend him.
> > > >
> > > > There is a list of things they had done to offend Him, most of
> > > > which you know from your past studies.
> > >
> > > Name them. Name just ONE thing the
> > > first born CHILDREN did to offend God.
> > > And don't for He killed all the first
> > > born animals as well. What had THEY
> > > done to offend your god?
> >
> > They hated their God, they hated the dependents of Abraham and Isaac
> > and enslaved them. IOW they mistreated the Chosen People.
>
> The children - and animals - of Egypt
> "hated their God"?

The children were taught that just like the children of the Palestines were
and are taught to hate the Hebrew.

The animals were owned by the families who suffered the same fate, and all
the animals of those who did as Moses instructed lived. They all had the same
choice, whether Egyptian or Hebrew.

Just like today, you have the same choice as to follow the Lord or reject
him.
>
> Where does the Bible say THAT?

You have the Bible, look it up.
>
>
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Why did God kill Er? He had
> > > > > done nothing wrong.
> > > >
> > > > “And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD;
> > > > and the LORD slew him.” (Gen 38:7, KJV)
> > >
> > > Bingo. What had Er DONE?
> >
> > Ask God, I just told you the answer. Bingo.
>
> Evasion noted. What had Er actually DONE?

Does it matter the specific details? Who are you to second Guess the one who
set all things in motion, including you. You who has the free will to oppose
eternal life and select eternal death as your preferred choice.
>
>
> > > > The same with his brother.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Why did God kill everyone in
> > > > > Ye Floode? They broke no "godly"
> > > > > rules.
> > > >
> > > > They were all followers of Satan. Given over to great Evil.
> > >
> > > The Bible doesn't say that.
> > >
> > > Don't you read your Bible?
> >
> > Gen 6:5 (AMPC) The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in
> > the earth, and that every imagination and intention of all human
> > thinking was only evil continually.
>
> So God killed all humanity for not
> obeying the laws he never gave them. And
> no chsnce of redemption, no option of
> forgiveness.

The did have a choice, many of Gods people told and warned the others, they
all listened with the exact same interest as you exhibit. Not just you, but
your wife, the others who claim to adhere to the religion of atheism.

You studied this too, at one time.
>
>
> And as for the "wickedness" of all
> the animals he killed, well, maybe you
> can explain that one as well.

I already did, years ago. You have shown everyone in asking that just how
honestly you ask the question. You have no desire for the turn but follow the
path of contention, just like some “christians” do.

On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
(in article <XnsB17E57E9869F2629555@185.151.15.190>):

> Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> news:0001HW.2C02EB8E0027273D30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > (in article <XnsB17DD42C4C3D4629555@185.151.15.190>):
> >
> > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > news:0001HW.2C0261710006C88B30F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > >
> > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > >
> > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
> > > > > > > rg:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-septemb
> > > > > > > > > er.o rg:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-sep
> > > > > > > > > > > temb er.o rg:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will
> > > > > > > > > > > > be no peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy,
> > > > > > > > > > > > filling the heart with enmity.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > And God does nothing about that
> > > > > > > > > > > because he hates humanity, could care
> > > > > > > > > > > less about humanity, is powerless to
> > > > > > > > > > > prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Which is it, do you think?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have
> > > > > > > > > > peace, and eternal life with him.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The question was about Satan.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Why does God permit him to
> > > > > > > > > "kill and destroy”?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Man did,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > __God is powerless to stop Satan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > __God doesn't care either way
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Which is it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > None of them.
> > > > >
> > > > > So God is NOT incontrol of
> > > > > everything that happens.
> > > >
> > > > There are other options that you are not aware of.
> > >
> > > Such as........?
> >
> > Your choice as to following Jesus, or not.
>
> What good does following Jesus do?
> Christians get sick at same rate as
> non Christians.

“My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast
rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest
to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget
thy children.” (Hos 4:6, KJV)

If you desire to know God, then ask him and he will impart knowledge and
wisdom to those that are sincere of heart. Otherwise. Matthew 15:14(KJV)
14Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead
the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

>
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So much for the Divine Plan.....
> > > >
> > > > The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
> > >
> > > Walk thru a pediatric oncology ward
> > > and tell us how children dying of cancer
> > > are part of a "Divine Plan".
> >
> > What makes you think they were? Why do you accuse God in heaven for
> > these things instead of the god of this world, Satan? The destroyer/
>
> So God is powerless to stop all
> the illness caused by Satan. Or just
> chooses not to.
>
> Which is it?

Neither.

On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
(in article <XnsB17E59C916DC5629555@185.151.15.190>):

> Maximus <gladiator@colosseum.rome> wrote in
> news:lbfl7fF5di8U1@mid.individual.net:
>
> > Robert wrote:
> > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > (in article <XnsB17D83910A038629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > >
> > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > news:0001HW.2C024D170002035330F47438F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > >
> > > > > On May 25, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > (in article <XnsB17D531BD9F9C629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > >
> > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > news:0001HW.2C0188D8002B116730A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17CCFAB21169629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C010F14000E879B30A8F938F@news.eternal-september.org:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On May 24, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > > > > > > > (in article <XnsB17C81669F34629555@185.151.15.190>):
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Robert <robert@no.way> wrote in
> > > > > > > > > > news:0001HW.2C0103FF000BEEA630A8F938F@news.eternal-september.o
> > > > > > > > > > rg:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Without Jesus Christ in a persons heart there will be no
> > > > > > > > > > > peace. Satan comes to kill, and destroy, filling the heart
> > > > > > > > > > > with enmity.
> > > > > > > > > > And God does nothing about that
> > > > > > > > > > because he hates humanity, could care
> > > > > > > > > > less about humanity, is powerless to
> > > > > > > > > > prevent it, or WANTS it to happen.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Which is it, do you think?
> > > > > > > > > He gave up His Son for you, so that you could have peace, and
> > > > > > > > > eternal life with him.
> > > > > > > > The question was about Satan.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why does God permit him to
> > > > > > > > "kill and destroy”?
> > > > > > > Man did,
> > > > > > __God wants Satan to kill and destroy
> > > > > >
> > > > > > __God is powerless to stop Satan
> > > > > >
> > > > > > __God doesn't care either way
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Which is it?
> > > > > None of them.
> > > > So God is NOT incontrol of
> > > > everything that happens.
> > > There are other options that you are not aware of.
> > > >
> > > > So much for the Divine Plan.....
> > > The Divine Plan has already been laid out and is fully on course.
> > > We were given a heads up, 1,000’s of years ago. Yet you fully
> > > ignore it.
> >
> > how unfortunate that God relies on mere mortals such as you to tell us
> > his wishes. he can (supposedly) create a Universe but cannot (for
> > example) patch into our communication systems and send messages
> > directly.
>
> That is one of the most bizarre
> parts of Christianity.
>
> God wants to convey a message to
> all mankind, so he has one person
> preach it in a backwater desert
> province and makes no arrangement for
> this message to be even written down
> much less broadcast to the whole world.

The Good News of God was preached and taught and lived by Jesus the Christ,
whose words are recorded in the NT and prophesied of in the OT.

You went to College to learn these things. Who stole them from you. Matthew
13:19

Robert wrote:
> On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
> > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
> > >
> > > > if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious notions
> > > > there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say embracing
> > > > religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
> > >
> > > ''
> > > The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
> > > directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even on
> > > Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be
> > > superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
> > > the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will authority. It
> > > can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim obedience. What
> > > God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of his own; so
> > > nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on reason and
> > > conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it may. One
> > > chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring natural morality and
> > > natural religion to their original and proper place,
> >
> > Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
>
> First you need to know what you are talking about, and understand without
> throwing shade.
>
> All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a bad side which
> left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
> Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
> Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a place for it.
> Murder in any form is just as evil.
>
> >
> >
> > When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
> > will not be freed at the end of six years as the
> > men are.
> > Exodus 21:7-11
>
> This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of slavery most
> think of as overblown by evil people. This was a willing indenture, like when
> you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for a shorter
> time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer than the years that the
> Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more complicated topic
> that this brief explanation, and yes, I know that most people do not get it.
> But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to feed and clothe
> their families instead of opting to die prematurely of starvation or freeze
> to death. This was also common in the early days of America regardless of
> race. Even in the biblical times many “slaves” could buy back their
> freedom from the monies earned for their work. Some never opted out, content
> to work for their living and get a little spending money on top of all the
> other benefits provided them. Bigots will never understand what I am saying,
> and they would be the same type of people who would treat their slaves
> poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh words and bad
> attitudes.

So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.

If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?

On May 26, 2024, El Kabong wrote
(in article<rn975jdrh5gbuiocad2jv49a7bm978vqm1@4ax.com>):

> Robert wrote:
> > On May 26, 2024, Mitchell Holman wrote
> > > Creon <creon@creon.earth> wrote in
> > > > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:25:17 +1000, Maximus wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > if we abandon fact based thought in favor of religious notions
> > > > > there's no telling were it will lead. that's why I say embracing
> > > > > religious ideas is perilous and unwise.
> > > >
> > > > ''
> > > > The Bible is not greater than conscience and reason. They are
> > > > directly from God, God's voice heard plainly in the heart, as even on
> > > > Horeb, or Sinai or the mount of transfiguration. Nothing can be
> > > > superior to these instructors. The Bible may agree with reason, utter
> > > > the same sentiments with conscience; and so far it will authority. It
> > > > can never contradict these counselors, and yet claim obedience. What
> > > > God has made cannot be unmade by any power short of his own; so
> > > > nothing arbitrary or capricious can ever become binding on reason and
> > > > conscience, let it be taught on what external authority it may. One
> > > > chief merit of Christianity consists in restoring natural morality and
> > > > natural religion to their original and proper place,
> > >
> > > Slavery, incest, polygamy, mass murder = "Natural morality"?
> >
> > First you need to know what you are talking about, and understand without
> > throwing shade.
> >
> > All “slavery” is not what you think, and yes, there is a bad side which
> > left to the natural man often is evil and corrupt,
> > Incest is always evil, and of the sin nature.
> > Polygamy, freely done of free will, there was a time and a place for it.
> > Murder in any form is just as evil.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she
> > > will not be freed at the end of six years as the
> > > men are.
> > > Exodus 21:7-11
> >
> > This was done for economic reasons, and was not the type of slavery most
> > think of as overblown by evil people. This was a willing indenture, like
> > when
> > you went to work for any employer. At that time it could be for a shorter
> > time, long enough to pay off the debt, but no longer than the years that the
> > Law allowed. Which ensured fair play. This is a far more complicated topic
> > that this brief explanation, and yes, I know that most people do not get it.
> > But many sell themselves as indentured employees in order to feed and clothe
> > their families instead of opting to die prematurely of starvation or freeze
> > to death. This was also common in the early days of America regardless of
> > race. Even in the biblical times many “slaves” could buy back their
> > freedom from the monies earned for their work. Some never opted out, content
> > to work for their living and get a little spending money on top of all the
> > other benefits provided them. Bigots will never understand what I am saying,
> > and they would be the same type of people who would treat their slaves
> > poorly and beat them, like they do here with their harsh words and bad
> > attitudes.
>
> So you are a defender and apologist for slavery.

I wouldn’t put it that way at all. I just understand the various meanings
for the one English word called slavery.

Do you work as an employee? If so, what are the does and don’t’s of your
life as an employee. What ‘carrots’ do they dangle in front of you, what
actual freedoms do you have to keep on being an employee. Think about it.

A few years back there were a group of multi-million dollar paid football
players who made a point out of their slavery by the white man, and what they
had to do whether they liked it or not in order to remain on the teams they
were a part of. To them that was slavery, they shouldn’t be required to
practice, just show up for the game. Many scoffed at the whole idea,
especially because of the monies they make, their retirement programs as well
as health care.

Yet they had a point. We all have to give in order to get, in some way.

I also had many friends who owned their companies, who felt that their
employees were their ’slaves’ some actually disrespected them, not
openly, but did take advantage of them. I never respected them, and it was
embarrassing to be around them. But that is still the way of men in today’s
world. That is why there were some good owners and bad owners. Biblically
speaking under the Jewish Covenant, there were provisions made for people so
as to be able to feed their families, fairly and squarely. But those with the
mindset of harsh slavery practices by evil men put all slavery into that one
mindset box, which is unfair. A lot of America was made up of white slaves
and their families, who for the sake of freedom and the free ride via ship,
into this country gave up 5-10 years of their life just to get here, and be
able to build their own farms and or businesses once released of their
obligations.

Would you have denied these people the opportunity to live and not die?

>
>
> If slavery was justified in the past, don't you think
> it's still justifiable now? If not, what has changed?

The name. Is not China the largest slave industry in the world? What about
pimps and their women?
What about employee’s and employers? What about people on the dole? People
that are slaves to their drugs of choice. What about the countries controlled
by Dictators?

My point is, in one way or another many are slaves.