On 5/2/24 6:16 AM, D wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 1 May 2024, Jamie Michelle wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 30 Apr 2024 17:22:57 -0400, "68hx.1806" <68hx.1805@g5t8x.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Poe was an under-respected polymath indeed.
>>>
>>> However an "insightful" theory is just a theory,
>>> like Democritus and "atoms". Neither had a shred
>>> of PROOF, no evidence and logical steps that would
>>> lead to a CONCLUSION. It was pure speculation in
>>> a sea of speculation.
>>>
>>> And no, math does not prove the existence of 'gods'.
>>>
>>> As for the universe being open or closed - the jury
>>> is still out on that. There have been recent worries
>>> that the markers used to judge expansion might not
>>> be as reliable as first believed - plus some info
>>> that the "dark energy" input may be "variable".
>>>
>>> In any case, I'd suggest you move to the "religious"
>>> groups.
>>
>> Oh, this has everything to do with politics:
>
> There is a gaping hole in all of this, and that is that there is no god,
> unless god is proved, and no one has managed to do that.

For the most part, "godS" ...

So, they were ALL wrong ??? :-)

Anyway, if you create a huge, ultra-complex, theology
it's on YOU to PROVE it - not on anyone else to disprove.

> So without a god, the rest of your argument falls. Sorry. =(

But they *believe* - and that fills in all the gaps
dontchaknow ...

Still waiting for some Hobbits to show up :-)

On Fri, 3 May 2024 23:07:21 -0400, "68hx.1807" <68hx.1806@g5t9x.net>
wrote:

>On 5/2/24 6:16 AM, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 1 May 2024, Jamie Michelle wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 30 Apr 2024 17:22:57 -0400, "68hx.1806" <68hx.1805@g5t8x.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Poe was an under-respected polymath indeed.
>>>>
>>>> However an "insightful" theory is just a theory,
>>>> like Democritus and "atoms". Neither had a shred
>>>> of PROOF, no evidence and logical steps that would
>>>> lead to a CONCLUSION. It was pure speculation in
>>>> a sea of speculation.
>>>>
>>>> And no, math does not prove the existence of 'gods'.
>>>>
>>>> As for the universe being open or closed - the jury
>>>> is still out on that. There have been recent worries
>>>> that the markers used to judge expansion might not
>>>> be as reliable as first believed - plus some info
>>>> that the "dark energy" input may be "variable".
>>>>
>>>> In any case, I'd suggest you move to the "religious"
>>>> groups.
>>>
>>> Oh, this has everything to do with politics:
>>
>> There is a gaping hole in all of this, and that is that there is no god,
>> unless god is proved, and no one has managed to do that.
>
> For the most part, "godS" ...
>
> So, they were ALL wrong ??? :-)
>
> Anyway, if you create a huge, ultra-complex, theology
> it's on YOU to PROVE it - not on anyone else to disprove.
>
>> So without a god, the rest of your argument falls. Sorry. =(
>
> But they *believe* - and that fills in all the gaps
> dontchaknow ...
>
> Still waiting for some Hobbits to show up :-)

The only way to avoid physicist and mathematician Prof. Frank J.
Tipler's Omega Point cosmology is to reject the known laws of physics
(i.e., the Second Law of Thermodynamics, General Relativity, and
Quantum Mechanics), and hence to reject empirical science: as these
physical laws have been confirmed by every experiment to date. That
is, there exists no rational reason for thinking that the Omega Point
cosmology is incorrect, and indeed, one must engage in extreme
irrationality in order to argue against the Omega Point cosmology. As
Prof. Stephen Hawking wrote, "one cannot really argue with a
mathematical theorem." (From p. 67 of Stephen Hawking, The Illustrated
A Brief History of Time [New York, NY: Bantam Books, 1996; 1st ed.,
1988].)

Additionally, we now have the quantum gravity Theory of Everything
(TOE) required by the known laws of physics and that correctly
describes and unifies all the forces in physics: of which inherently
produces the Omega Point cosmology. So here we have an additional high
degree of assurance that the Omega Point cosmology is correct.

Prof. Tipler's Omega Point cosmology has been extensively
peer-reviewed and published in a number of the world's leading physics
and science journals.[1] Even NASA itself has peer-reviewed his Omega
Point Theorem and found it correct according to the known physical
laws (see below). No refutation of it exists within the peer-reviewed
scientific literature, or anywhere else for that matter.

Below are some of the peer-reviewed papers in physics and science
journals and proceedings wherein Prof. Tipler has published his Omega
Point cosmology.

* Frank J. Tipler, "Cosmological Limits on Computation", International
Journal of Theoretical Physics, Vol. 25, No. 6 (June 1986), pp.
617-661, doi:10.1007/BF00670475, bibcode: 1986IJTP...25..617T,
https://web.archive.org/web/20120823230026/http://theophysics.host56.com/pdf/Tipler-Cosmological-Limits-on-Computation.pdf
.. First paper on the Omega Point cosmology.

* Frank J. Tipler, "The Sensorium of God: Newton and Absolute Space",
bibcode: 1988nnds.conf..215T, in G[eorge]. V. Coyne, M[ichal]. Heller
and J[ozef]. Zycinski (Eds.), "Message" by Franciszek Macharski,
Newton and the New Direction in Science: Proceedings of the Cracow
Conference, 25 to 28 May 1987 (Vatican City: Specola Vaticana, 1988),
pp. 215-228, LCCN 88162460, bibcode: 1988nnds.conf.....C,
https://web.archive.org/web/20120823230043/http://theophysics.host56.com/pdf/Tipler-Sensorium-of-God.pdf
..

* Frank J. Tipler, "The Omega Point Theory: A Model of an Evolving
God", in Robert J. Russell, William R. Stoeger and George V. Coyne
(Eds.), message by John Paul II, Physics, Philosophy, and Theology: A
Common Quest for Understanding (Vatican City: Vatican Observatory, 2nd
ed., 2005; orig. pub. 1988), pp. 313-331, ISBN 0268015775, LCCN
89203331, bibcode: 1988pptc.book.....R,
https://web.archive.org/web/20120823230038/http://theophysics.host56.com/pdf/Tipler-Omega-Point-Theory.pdf
..

* Frank J. Tipler, "The Anthropic Principle: A Primer for
Philosophers", in Arthur Fine and Jarrett Leplin (Eds.), PSA 1988:
Proceedings of the 1988 Biennial Meeting of the Philosophy of Science
Association, Volume Two: Symposia and Invited Papers (East Lansing,
Mich.: Philosophy of Science Association, 1989), pp. 27-48, ISBN
091758628X,
https://web.archive.org/web/20120823230020/http://theophysics.host56.com/pdf/Tipler-Anthropic-Principle.pdf
..

* Frank J. Tipler, "The Omega Point as Eschaton: Answers to
Pannenberg's Questions for Scientists", Zygon: Journal of Religion &
Science, Vol. 24, No. 2 (June 1989), pp. 217-253,
doi:10.1111/j.1467-9744.1989.tb01112.x. Republished as Chapter 7: "The
Omega Point as Eschaton: Answers to Pannenberg's Questions to
Scientists" in Carol Rausch Albright and Joel Haugen (Eds.), Beginning
with the End: God, Science, and Wolfhart Pannenberg (Chicago, Ill.:
Open Court Publishing Company, 1997), pp. 156-194, ISBN 0812693256,
LCCN 97000114,
https://web.archive.org/web/20160804171818/http://theophysics.host56.com/pdf/tipler-omega-point-as-eschaton.pdf
..

* Frank J. Tipler, "The ultimate fate of life in universes which
undergo inflation", Physics Letters B, Vol. 286, Nos. 1-2 (July 23,
1992), pp. 36-43, doi:10.1016/0370-2693(92)90155-W, bibcode:
1992PhLB..286...36T,
https://web.archive.org/web/20120823230031/http://theophysics.host56.com/pdf/Tipler-Life-in-universes-which-undergo-inflation.pdf
..

* Frank J. Tipler, "A New Condition Implying the Existence of a
Constant Mean Curvature Foliation", bibcode: 1993dgr2.conf..306T, in
B[ei]. L. Hu and T[ed]. A. Jacobson (Eds.), Directions in General
Relativity: Proceedings of the 1993 International Symposium, Maryland,
Volume 2: Papers in Honor of Dieter Brill (Cambridge, UK: Cambridge
University Press, 1993), pp. 306-315, ISBN 0521452678, bibcode:
1993dgr2.conf.....H,
https://web.archive.org/web/20120823230050/http://theophysics.host56.com/pdf/tipler-constant-mean-curvature-foliation.pdf
..

* Frank J. Tipler, "Ultrarelativistic Rockets and the Ultimate Future
of the Universe", NASA Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Workshop
Proceedings, National Aeronautics and Space Administration, Jan. 1999,
pp. 111-119; an invited paper in the proceedings of a conference held
at and sponsored by NASA Lewis Research Center, Cleveland, Ohio, Aug.
12-14, 1997; doi:2060/19990023204, Document ID: 19990023204, Report
Number: E-11429; NAS 1.55:208694; NASA/CP-1999-208694,
https://web.archive.org/web/20120823230148/http://theophysics.host56.com/pdf/tipler-ultrarelativistic-rockets.pdf
.. Full proceedings volume:
https://web.archive.org/web/20100525230359/http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19990023204_1999021520.pdf
..

* Frank J. Tipler, "There Are No Limits To The Open Society", Critical
Rationalist, Vol. 3, No. 2 (Sept. 23, 1998),
https://web.archive.org/web/20150819193439/http://www.tkpw.net/tcr/volume-03/number-02/v03n02.pdf
..

* Frank J. Tipler, Jessica Graber, Matthew McGinley, Joshua
Nichols-Barrer and Christopher Staecker, "Closed Universes With Black
Holes But No Event Horizons As a Solution to the Black Hole
Information Problem", arXiv:gr-qc/0003082, Mar. 20, 2000,
http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0003082 . Published in Monthly Notices of
the Royal Astronomical Society, Vol. 379, No. 2 (Aug. 2007), pp.
629-640, doi:10.1111/j.1365-2966.2007.11895.x, bibcode:
2007MNRAS.379..629T,
https://megalodon.jp/2019-0920-0621-46/academic.oup.com/mnras/article-pdf/379/2/629/3385142/mnras0379-0629.pdf
..

* Frank J. Tipler, "The Ultimate Future of the Universe, Black Hole
Event Horizon Topologies, Holography, and the Value of the
Cosmological Constant", arXiv:astro-ph/0104011, Apr. 1, 2001,
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0104011 . Published in J. Craig Wheeler
and Hugo Martel (Eds.), Relativistic Astrophysics: 20th Texas
Symposium, Austin, Texas, 10-15 December 2000 (Melville, NY: American
Institute of Physics, 2001), pp. 769-772, ISBN 0735400261, LCCN
2001094694, which is AIP Conference Proceedings, Vol. 586 (Oct. 15,
2001), doi:10.1063/1.1419654, bibcode: 2001AIPC..586.....W.