"Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:mvs29jd9tp0uh0dkkmssam0s4d4v3mk9nn@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 11:29:18 -0400, "Scout"
> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:3hr09jhr1nob645n6c0qv68fmi915e42k2@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 15:17:14 -0700, "Andrew"
>>> <andrew.321.remov@usa.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Vincent Maycock" wrote in message
>>>>news:q0709j5rrn8aj7t2d2s44stoo8p2pjj7b0@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>>> At the very least, the Bible portrays God as being really powerful; so
>>>>> we don't necessarily have to even mention the idea of omnipotence
>>>>> when investigating all the suffering around us and asking why God
>>>>> would allow it, if he existed.
>>>>
>>>>The suffering, sorrow, pain and death in this realm are all temporary.
>>>
>>> What are they doing here at all, temporary or not?
>>
>>Necessary to growth, development and self dependency.
>
> Some forms of suffering are. Others most definitely are not.

Are they?

> Would
> you support the abolishment of hospitals and police officers so we can
> have more suffering leading to growth, development, and
> self-dependency?

Would you refuse to allow us to operate because it would increase their
suffering?
Would you refuse to allow police officers to help people even if that meant
they might suffer from that aid?
Must be wonderful to have the Godlike powers you seems to assert
possessing...

Looking back on my life and the suffering I did.. much of it helped me
become the better person I am today. Even the suffering that seemed
unnecessary, helped me to learn to accept, understand and deal with
suffering without being crushed by it. Which allowed me to learn from other
suffering that might have crushed me without what prior suffering taught me.
So no, to think you know enough to decide what suffering should or shouldn't
be allowed, is to deny people the capacity to learn from such suffering so
they could stand up under suffering that may come later than you need to
stand up under it.

Once again, you are attempting to play God, without even attempting to
consider the consequences of your actions. You would make a very poor God.

"Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
news:XnsB1AD858181527629555@185.151.15.160...
> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> news:v6rjot$33em7$5@dont-email.me:
>
>>
>>
>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:XnsB1AC83E8F64DA629555@185.151.15.190...
>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>> news:v6onj7$2g188$13@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:XnsB1AB814D77A8E629555@185.151.15.160...
>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>>>> news:v6m78m $1v0jr$20@dont-email.me:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:XnsB1AA83C20B73C629555@185.151.15.160...
>>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>>>> news:v6jl2r
>>>>>>> $1ebn2$28@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:XnsB1A9D16A65FE629555@185.151.15.160...
>>>>>>>>> Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:v6htj8$12l5j$3
>>>>>>> @dont-
>>>>>>>>> email.me:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> news:668c3812$0$1895503$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In article <XnsB1A98B6E059CF629555@185.151.15.190>,
>>>>> noemail@aol.com
>>>>>>>>>>> says...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:668c2930$0$1895499$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> > In article <XnsB1A97F3606ECE629555@185.151.15.190>,
>>>>>>> noemail@aol.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> > says...
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> news:668becab$0$2422120 $882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > In article <XnsB1A8D17FD1299629555@185.151.15.160>,
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > noemail@aol.com says...
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> news:668b191e$0$3620720$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > In article <v6f2io$gjqe$1@dont-email.me>, bax02
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> _spamblock@baxcode.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > says...
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> Watson Herbusch <paid@x.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> news:v6etbq$42s$5@toxic.dizum.net:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> > On 07 Jul 2024, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> > Doctor) posted some
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> > news:v6e2ig$4fj$5@gallifrey.nk.ca:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >> In article <X_viO.61872$C9He.19099@fx15.ams4>,
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >> Andrew <andrew.321.remov@usa.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>One becomes an atheist when they do not
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>want God in their life. Not because there
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>is no evidence for God.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>Because evidence for our most awesome
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>Creator is there in the very *creation* that
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>He made;
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>And is evident for ~anyone~ who wants to
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>know.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >> Atheist science is a contradiction.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> > Atheism is a religion.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> Nope.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> =========
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> Atheism is not a belief system nor is it a
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> religion.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> While there are some religions that are atheistic
>>>>> (certain
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> sects of Buddhism, for example), that does not mean
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> that atheism is a religion. To put it in a more
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> humorous way:
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> atheism is a
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> religion,
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> then not collecting stamps is a hobby.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/about-
>>>>> atheism/
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> ============
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > It is and your cites are biased.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> Everything that proves you wrong is biased.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > But if I post something from Fox or RSNB or something
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > you
>>>>>>> claim
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > it's biased.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Fox News ADMITS they are biased shills for Trump.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Off the air, Fox News stars blasted
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> the election fraud claims they peddled
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> FEBRUARY 16, 2023
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> https://www.npr.org/2023/02/16/1157558299/fox-news-stars-
>>>>> false-
>>>>>>>>> clai
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> ms- trump-election-2020
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > So?
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Fox lies for Trump.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> They admit they lie for Trump.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Next?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> MSM and the white house has been lying about Joe for 3 years.
>>>>>>>>>>> Do
>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> have a point to make?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They been saying tRump good, Biden bad.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Isn't it fun watching Fox News cringe
>>>>>>>>> while reporting on the latest job creation
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> US Unemployment Rate (I:USUR)
>>>>>>>> US Unemployment Rate is at 4.10%, compared to 4.00% last month
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> 3.60%
>>>>>>>> last year.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Biden brought the Trump 6.4% rate
>>>>>>> down to 3.6% and you are complaining?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Average Yearly Inflation
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We were talking about unemployment.
>>>>
>>>> Yea, and how many people have LEFT the job market under Biden and
>>>> are no longer even counted as unemployed?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Huh??
>>>
>>>
>>> US job gains surge past expectations,
>>> wage growth quickens
>>> June 7, 2024
>>> https://tinyurl.com/yjt363vs
>>
>> and we are still below pre-covid job numbers, and many Americans
>> complain there aren't enough jobs.
>
>
> Wrong.
>
> 1) More Americans are working now
> than at any point in HISTORY.
>
>
> "In 2023, it was estimated that over
> 161 million Americans were in some
> form of employment, while 3.64 percent
> of the total workforce was unemployed."

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
news:v6u881$3ld90$4@dont-email.me:

>
>
> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:XnsB1AD80BA53851629555@185.151.15.190...
>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>> news:v6rhmv$332su$7@dont-email.me:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:XnsB1ACD38BC1AB7629555@185.151.15.190...
>>>> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
>>>> news:v6pi30 $2knpg$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/07/2024 3:37 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>>> news:v6onj4
>>>>>> $2g188$8@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:XnsB1AB7F2475B95629555@185.151.15.160...
>>>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:v6m78d$1v0jr$8@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:XnsB1AA828AE711629555@185.151.15.190...
>>>>>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> news:v6jl2l $1ebn2$20@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:XnsB1A9D7EAF3E86629555@185.151.15.190...
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam <samt@samt.invalid> wrote in news:lf3kckFcicnU1
>>>>>>>>>> @mid.individual.net:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 9 Jul 2024 11:37:20 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sure, if we all walked in truth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the Name of Jesus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> LOL! That is quite the babbling signature you have. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to say, "Hate people that do not believe as I do!"
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That IS what the Bible requires..............
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Death to Followers of Other Religions
>>>>>>>>>>>> (Exodus 22:19)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kill Nonbelievers
>>>>>>>>>>>> (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
>>>>>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kill Followers of Other Religions.
>>>>>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You mean the bible written by PEOPLE?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "God's Holy Word"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Divinely Inspired"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Holy Writ"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So written by people.. possibly even delusional people, and
>>>>>>>>> that's suppose to be accepted blindly and without question?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What about when the Bible contradicts itself.. how are we
>>>>>>>>> suppose
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> take that if we can't accept that the authors are flawed human
>>>> beings
>>>>>>>>> and thus the Bible is imperfect?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Take that up with Pastor Hartung, he
>>>>>>>> runs away every time I ask him these sorts
>>>>>>>> of questions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm taking it up with YOU.. you're the one claiming the Bible
>>>>>>> has to
>>>> be
>>>>>>> blindly obeyed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Huh?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I posted above was satire.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Bible is just contradictory
>>>>>> and nonsensical gobbledy-gook invented
>>>>>> by illiterate goat herders to explain
>>>>>> what they didn't know.
>>>>>
>>>>> You don't get it, Mitchell.
>>>>>
>>>>> You use the bible (e.g., your nonsensical gobbledy-gook) as your
>>>>> argument and reference for your truth.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are the greatest bible believing, non-bible believing, atheist
>>>>> I know. :-).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The first step toward atheism
>>>> is actually READING the Bible.
>>>
>>> Ok, I'll bite.. How does reading the bible establish that Gods do
>>> not, can not, and have never existed....
>>>
>>> I mean I can see where you might have doubts, and become agnostic..
>>> but to flip to the total denial seems unfounded.... After all, what
>>> would an ant make of us? What makes you think an intelligence as
>>> much above us as we are above an ant simply could not exist?
>>>
>>> So let me try your own argument. Prove that God doesn't exist.
>>
>>
>> The demand for proof of a negative:
>> always the sign of a failed argument.
>
> If you cant prove God doesn't exist, then God could exist without your
> knowledge.

"Could exist"?

If your faith had any facts
behind it you wouldn't need faith.

> I mean you are the one claiming that there is no possibility of a
> Godlike being.... So where is your proof?

Christians demanding proof.

Oh, the irony.

Scout wrote:
> "Baxter" <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> wrote in message
....
> > Prove that an animal has faith.
>
> Animals waiting years in a specific spot for their owners to return
> somewhere.
>
> If that isn't faith, what would you call it?

Conditioned response.

In article <v6u881$3ld90$3@dont-email.me>,
me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net says...
>
> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:XnsB1AD8AF1820DC629555@185.151.15.190...
> > C_V <c_v@invalid.net> wrote in news:v6rpum$34kb9$2@dont-email.me:
> >
> >> On 7/12/2024 11:41 AM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
> >>>> All you've shown is that the humans who wrote the Bible were human.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Never said otherwise.
> >>
> >> Yet you regularly use it to demonize and decry.
> >
> >
> > If "Biblidal Truth" (flat earth,
> > geocentrism, Ye Floode) is in fact a
> > lie whose fault is that?
>
> The idiots that read what isn't there.
>
>

His "ye Floode" shit is getting old.

In article <v6u881$3ld90$4@dont-email.me>,
me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net says...
>
> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:XnsB1AD80BA53851629555@185.151.15.190...
> > "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> > news:v6rhmv$332su$7@dont-email.me:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> news:XnsB1ACD38BC1AB7629555@185.151.15.190...
> >>> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
> >>> news:v6pi30 $2knpg$1@dont-email.me:
> >>>
> >>>> On 12/07/2024 3:37 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
> >>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> >>> news:v6onj4
> >>>>> $2g188$8@dont-email.me:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>> news:XnsB1AB7F2475B95629555@185.151.15.160...
> >>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> >>>>>>> news:v6m78d$1v0jr$8@dont-email.me:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>> news:XnsB1AA828AE711629555@185.151.15.190...
> >>>>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> >>>>>>>>> news:v6jl2l $1ebn2$20@dont-email.me:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>> news:XnsB1A9D7EAF3E86629555@185.151.15.190...
> >>>>>>>>>>> Sam <samt@samt.invalid> wrote in news:lf3kckFcicnU1
> >>>>>>>>> @mid.individual.net:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 9 Jul 2024 11:37:20 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
> >>>>>>>>>>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sure, if we all walked in truth.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In the Name of Jesus
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> LOL! That is quite the babbling signature you have. It seems
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to say, "Hate people that do not believe as I do!"
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> That IS what the Bible requires..............
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Death to Followers of Other Religions
> >>>>>>>>>>> (Exodus 22:19)
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Kill Nonbelievers
> >>>>>>>>>>> (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
> >>>>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Kill Followers of Other Religions.
> >>>>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> You mean the bible written by PEOPLE?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> "God's Holy Word"
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> "Divinely Inspired"
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> "Holy Writ"
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> So written by people.. possibly even delusional people, and
> >>>>>>>> that's suppose to be accepted blindly and without question?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> What about when the Bible contradicts itself.. how are we
> >>>>>>>> suppose
> >>> to
> >>>>>>>> take that if we can't accept that the authors are flawed human
> >>> beings
> >>>>>>>> and thus the Bible is imperfect?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Take that up with Pastor Hartung, he
> >>>>>>> runs away every time I ask him these sorts
> >>>>>>> of questions.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm taking it up with YOU.. you're the one claiming the Bible has
> >>>>>> to
> >>> be
> >>>>>> blindly obeyed.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Huh?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What I posted above was satire.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Bible is just contradictory
> >>>>> and nonsensical gobbledy-gook invented
> >>>>> by illiterate goat herders to explain
> >>>>> what they didn't know.
> >>>>
> >>>> You don't get it, Mitchell.
> >>>>
> >>>> You use the bible (e.g., your nonsensical gobbledy-gook) as your
> >>>> argument and reference for your truth.
> >>>>
> >>>> You are the greatest bible believing, non-bible believing, atheist I
> >>>> know. :-).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The first step toward atheism
> >>> is actually READING the Bible.
> >>
> >> Ok, I'll bite.. How does reading the bible establish that Gods do not,
> >> can not, and have never existed....
> >>
> >> I mean I can see where you might have doubts, and become agnostic..
> >> but to flip to the total denial seems unfounded.... After all, what
> >> would an ant make of us? What makes you think an intelligence as much
> >> above us as we are above an ant simply could not exist?
> >>
> >> So let me try your own argument. Prove that God doesn't exist.
> >
> >
> > The demand for proof of a negative:
> > always the sign of a failed argument.
>
> If you cant prove God doesn't exist, then God could exist without your
> knowledge.
>
> I mean you are the one claiming that there is no possibility of a Godlike
> being.... So where is your proof?
>
Even the smartest of the smart will admit they really don't know.

In article <XnsB1AE890713A14629555@185.151.15.160>, noemail@aol.com
says...
>
> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> news:v6u881$3ld90$4@dont-email.me:
>
> >
> >
> > "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:XnsB1AD80BA53851629555@185.151.15.190...
> >> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> >> news:v6rhmv$332su$7@dont-email.me:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:XnsB1ACD38BC1AB7629555@185.151.15.190...
> >>>> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
> >>>> news:v6pi30 $2knpg$1@dont-email.me:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 12/07/2024 3:37 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
> >>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> >>>> news:v6onj4
> >>>>>> $2g188$8@dont-email.me:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>> news:XnsB1AB7F2475B95629555@185.151.15.160...
> >>>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> >>>>>>>> news:v6m78d$1v0jr$8@dont-email.me:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>> news:XnsB1AA828AE711629555@185.151.15.190...
> >>>>>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> >>>>>>>>>> news:v6jl2l $1ebn2$20@dont-email.me:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>>> news:XnsB1A9D7EAF3E86629555@185.151.15.190...
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sam <samt@samt.invalid> wrote in news:lf3kckFcicnU1
> >>>>>>>>>> @mid.individual.net:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 9 Jul 2024 11:37:20 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sure, if we all walked in truth.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the Name of Jesus
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> LOL! That is quite the babbling signature you have. It
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to say, "Hate people that do not believe as I do!"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> That IS what the Bible requires..............
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Death to Followers of Other Religions
> >>>>>>>>>>>> (Exodus 22:19)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Kill Nonbelievers
> >>>>>>>>>>>> (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
> >>>>>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Kill Followers of Other Religions.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> You mean the bible written by PEOPLE?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "God's Holy Word"
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "Divinely Inspired"
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "Holy Writ"
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> So written by people.. possibly even delusional people, and
> >>>>>>>>> that's suppose to be accepted blindly and without question?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> What about when the Bible contradicts itself.. how are we
> >>>>>>>>> suppose
> >>>> to
> >>>>>>>>> take that if we can't accept that the authors are flawed human
> >>>> beings
> >>>>>>>>> and thus the Bible is imperfect?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Take that up with Pastor Hartung, he
> >>>>>>>> runs away every time I ask him these sorts
> >>>>>>>> of questions.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm taking it up with YOU.. you're the one claiming the Bible
> >>>>>>> has to
> >>>> be
> >>>>>>> blindly obeyed.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Huh?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What I posted above was satire.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The Bible is just contradictory
> >>>>>> and nonsensical gobbledy-gook invented
> >>>>>> by illiterate goat herders to explain
> >>>>>> what they didn't know.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You don't get it, Mitchell.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You use the bible (e.g., your nonsensical gobbledy-gook) as your
> >>>>> argument and reference for your truth.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You are the greatest bible believing, non-bible believing, atheist
> >>>>> I know. :-).
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> The first step toward atheism
> >>>> is actually READING the Bible.
> >>>
> >>> Ok, I'll bite.. How does reading the bible establish that Gods do
> >>> not, can not, and have never existed....
> >>>
> >>> I mean I can see where you might have doubts, and become agnostic..
> >>> but to flip to the total denial seems unfounded.... After all, what
> >>> would an ant make of us? What makes you think an intelligence as
> >>> much above us as we are above an ant simply could not exist?
> >>>
> >>> So let me try your own argument. Prove that God doesn't exist.
> >>
> >>
> >> The demand for proof of a negative:
> >> always the sign of a failed argument.
> >
> > If you cant prove God doesn't exist, then God could exist without your
> > knowledge.
>
>
> "Could exist"?
>
> If your faith had any facts
> behind it you wouldn't need faith.

Nice spin from what he said.
>
>
> > I mean you are the one claiming that there is no possibility of a
> > Godlike being.... So where is your proof?
>
>
> Christians demanding proof.
>
> Oh, the irony.

In article <v6u88b$3ld90$16@dont-email.me>,
me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net says...
>
> "Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:fos29jd7698j1l9quut3kve4vfj2oviom8@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 11:28:47 -0400, "Scout"
> > <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>"Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:q0709j5rrn8aj7t2d2s44stoo8p2pjj7b0@4ax.com...
> >>> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 13:18:58 -0400, "Scout"
> >>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>"Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:rq109jtkr3flolmv3n7luc2cugdmfc3vt6@4ax.com...
> >>>>> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 09:13:14 -0400, "Scout"
> >>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>"Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>news:h28u8j98e8hm2gq7c61djiqbdeqvb0mbs9@4ax.com...
> >>>>>>> On Wed, 10 Jul 2024 10:08:56 -0400, "Scout"
> >>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> <snip>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Seems like it. It's just a different faith.. I mean they even have
> >>>>>>>>their
> >>>>>>>>own
> >>>>>>>>churches. So either they are lying about their lack of faith or they
> >>>>>>>>are
> >>>>>>>>committing tax evasion and should go to jail.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Even the hardened Kevrob atheist admitted he leaves the door ever
> >>>>>>>>> so
> >>>>>>>>> slightly open, which was honest.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>True, you have to give him that. I tend to be more of an agnostic
> >>>>>>>>type
> >>>>>>>>of
> >>>>>>>>person. I would acknowledge the possibility of one or more entities
> >>>>>>>>which
> >>>>>>>>would be god like, but currently we have no true evidence of such
> >>>>>>>>being(s).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> We don't currently have any true evidence of the existence of pink
> >>>>>>> garden unicorns. Are you agnostic about their existence?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Yep. If you believe in them and it makes you happy, and doesn't harm
> >>>>>>anyone
> >>>>>>else. Go for it.
> >>>>>>After all, in all the Universe there well could be something we might
> >>>>>>call
> >>>>>>a
> >>>>>>pink garden unicorn.. or there could not.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>With up to 2 trillion galaxies in the universe that we know of or
> >>>>>>suspect,
> >>>>>>and each galaxy having about 100 Billion stars be galaxy, and if we
> >>>>>>assume
> >>>>>>1.6 planets per star.. and then if we assume only 0.1% of those are
> >>>>>>habitable, and only 0.1% of those are inhabited.. That leaves a LOT of
> >>>>>>room
> >>>>>>for a pink garden unicorn to exist or not.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What about the Keebler Elves? Could *they* be lurking in a tree near
> >>>>> you?
> >>>>
> >>>>Lame evasion.
> >>>
> >>> How so?
> >>
> >>Because your line of questioning as already failed.
> >
> > Okay. Let's just say for the sake of argument that that part of my
> > questioning failed. How do you deal with my *next* question, about
> > the Keebler Elves? Or was it just a lame evasion on your part?
>
> Easy, you've already failed and there is no reason to continue this
> stupidity deeper down the rabbit hole.
>
>

He's always spinning away or insulting.

In article <v6u88b$3ld90$17@dont-email.me>,
me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net says...
>
> "In the Name of Jesus" <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in message
> news:v6sd9j$3764m$5@dont-email.me...
> > On 13/07/2024 1:28 am, Scout wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> "Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:q0709j5rrn8aj7t2d2s44stoo8p2pjj7b0@4ax.com...
> >>> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 13:18:58 -0400, "Scout"
> >>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> "Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>> news:rq109jtkr3flolmv3n7luc2cugdmfc3vt6@4ax.com...
> >>>>> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 09:13:14 -0400, "Scout"
> >>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>> news:h28u8j98e8hm2gq7c61djiqbdeqvb0mbs9@4ax.com...
> >>>>>>> On Wed, 10 Jul 2024 10:08:56 -0400, "Scout"
> >>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> <snip>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Seems like it. It's just a different faith.. I mean they even have
> >>>>>>>> their
> >>>>>>>> own
> >>>>>>>> churches. So either they are lying about their lack of faith or
> >>>>>>>> they are
> >>>>>>>> committing tax evasion and should go to jail.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Even the hardened Kevrob atheist admitted he leaves the door ever
> >>>>>>>>> so
> >>>>>>>>> slightly open, which was honest.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> True, you have to give him that. I tend to be more of an agnostic
> >>>>>>>> type
> >>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>> person. I would acknowledge the possibility of one or more entities
> >>>>>>>> which
> >>>>>>>> would be god like, but currently we have no true evidence of such
> >>>>>>>> being(s).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> We don't currently have any true evidence of the existence of pink
> >>>>>>> garden unicorns. Are you agnostic about their existence?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yep. If you believe in them and it makes you happy, and doesn't harm
> >>>>>> anyone
> >>>>>> else. Go for it.
> >>>>>> After all, in all the Universe there well could be something we might
> >>>>>> call
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>> pink garden unicorn.. or there could not.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> With up to 2 trillion galaxies in the universe that we know of or
> >>>>>> suspect,
> >>>>>> and each galaxy having about 100 Billion stars be galaxy, and if we
> >>>>>> assume
> >>>>>> 1.6 planets per star.. and then if we assume only 0.1% of those are
> >>>>>> habitable, and only 0.1% of those are inhabited.. That leaves a LOT
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>> room
> >>>>>> for a pink garden unicorn to exist or not.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What about the Keebler Elves? Could *they* be lurking in a tree near
> >>>>> you?
> >>>>
> >>>> Lame evasion.
> >>>
> >>> How so?
> >>
> >> Because your line of questioning as already failed.
> >>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> However, if our thoughts about the size of the Universe is anywhere
> >>>>>>>> close
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> being true, and the time that the Universe is thought to have
> >>>>>>>> existed..
> >>>>>>>> there could be entities that are as far above us, as we are above
> >>>>>>>> ants.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Is it possible, in your opinion, to rule out the existence of
> >>>>>>> certain
> >>>>>>> *types* of gods?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Depends on what type you're talking about.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> For example we know there can be no omnipotent omni-
> >>>>>>> benevolent god of the Christian sort out there
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Depends are you talking true omnipotence or something so far in
> >>>>>> advance of
> >>>>>> our civilization at the point of contact to appear so?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Either one.
> >>>>
> >>>> Then I would put it that a civilization advanced enough to easily
> >>>> travel
> >>>> between the stars would appear damn near omnipotent to the people 2000
> >>>> years
> >>>> ago.
> >>>
> >>> True. What's your point?
> >>
> >> That you just agreed with me, thus establishing my point made that you
> >> can't possibly know what you asserted you did above.
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>> Further, from my readings God is not omni-benevolent, in fact in some
> >>>>>> ways
> >>>>>> God seems quite selfish, particularly when it comes worship.
> >>>>>> See Exodus 20:3-5/6 depending on which version you use.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Of course that is somewhat contradicted by claims there are no other
> >>>>>> Gods
> >>>>>> while at the same time declaring there shall be no Gods before him.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So, yea, there is a lot of wiggle room there. I certainly know of no
> >>>>>> claim
> >>>>>> of omnipotence or omni-benevolence from the Biblical God.
> >>>>>> I mean he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for a rather petty reason by a
> >>>>>> few
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>> the people who lived there. Hardly seems omni-benevolent to me.
> >>>>>> I mean consider endless eternal damnation for limited and very finite
> >>>>>> offenses... Does that sound like being omni-benevolent?
> >>>>>> Yes, the Bible is full of such contradictions within itself and
> >>>>>> within
> >>>>>> religions teachings of it.
> >>>>>> Now perhaps in God's view his is both.. but from ours, not so much.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Note:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zf626yc/revision/1
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So you're saying if the Christian god exists, he must be evil?
> >>>>
> >>>> Would depend on your point of view, wouldn't it?
> >>>
> >>> What would prevent God from sharing this rather important information
> >>> with us about human suffering from his point of view?
> >>
> >> Lack of understanding? Knowledge you would never understand it at your
> >> age of development.
> >>
> >> I mean do you explain to a 9 month old baby why you are going to stab
> >> them with a sharp object, or do you do so because you know it's for the
> >> good of the baby?
> >>
> >> I mean you could try to explain it.. but realizing it's futile to do so,
> >> who would bother?
> >>
> >>
> >>>> Even benevolence can seem like utter cruelty to the ill informed and
> >>>> visa
> >>>> verse.
> >>>
> >>> So is this the "best of all possible worlds," in your view?
> >>
> >> Hardly, but it could be better than it might have been otherwise.. See
> >> above about the baby receiving a shot.
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> I
> >>>>> wouldn't quarrel with that -- but since Christians are generally
> >>>>> unwilling to agree with a statement like that, I generally phrase it
> >>>>> as "the Christian god does not exist."
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, first we would have to establish exactly what the term "Christian
> >>>> god"
> >>>> means and exactly how that is supported. In a discussion like that
> >>>> precise
> >>>> and specific meaning would need to be determined and supported. Not
> >>>> just
> >>>> from the view of the people saying it but also what they can support as
> >>>> being directly referenced. I mean it's nice to say God is omnipotent,
> >>>> but
> >>>> did God ever state that and to what if any limits, either inherent or
> >>>> self
> >>>> imposed.
> >>>
> >>> At the very least, the Bible portrays God as being really powerful;
> >>
> >> Agreed and given the civilization at the time, that wouldn't be that hard
> >> to do. Heck we could probably do at least some of that today if we wanted
> >> to.
> >>
> >>> so
> >>> we don't necessarily have to even mention the idea of omnipotence
> >>
> >> Well since we are the ones that asserted omnipotence... it would be our
> >> error.
> >>
> >>> when investigating all the suffering around us and asking why God
> >>> would allow it, if he existed.
> >>
> >> Reference the baby above. Do you crawl on your hands and knees because
> >> otherwise you might have to suffer learning to walk?
> >> Do you refuse to swim because you might suffer some learning how to do
> >> so?
> >>
> >> Nope, if you had your way, we could neither feed ourselves, move
> >> ourselves or even care for ourselves.. the "benevolent god" would have to
> >> care and provide for us every moment of every day, and prevent us from
> >> doing or seeking anything else.
> >>
> >> No, suffering is sometimes necessary to growth. To suggest none should
> >> exist is to deny growth, change, advancement.... which hardly sounds like
> >> something a benevolent God would do.
> >>
> >> Really? You need to try to think these things through for yourself.. as
> >> it is you're just looking like a fool.
> >
> > Vincent has a strong tendency to tweak, twist, and distort in order to try
> > and shift what he believes into an edifice of fact, reality, and truth.
> >
> > There is plain old common sense in your replies. It is actually
> > refreshing. Skeeter's replies are quite often similar.
> >
> > Personally, I am not bothered if a person is atheist, agnostic, or
> > religious; in all cases every day common sense, logic, and truth is most
> > welcome.
>
> Yep, free will means we can have different beliefs. The ONLY thing I tend to
> look for is your ability to support your beliefs even if only because you
> believe in it by faith... and if that's the case, allow others to do the
> same. If you're going to demand proof of their beliefs then you should be
> willing to do the same for yours.
> Indeed, I just had a thought.. maybe, it's not so much what about what your
> faith is, than it is about you having faith. Interesting notion. I will
> have to think on that.
>
>
> In short, generally, don't ask for what you wouldn't provide.
>
> I have had several people tell me that I am a deeply spiritual person,
> because I've at least given the matter serious thought.
> Perhaps, that's all that is really needed...
> To have a faith, to think about it, to question it, to challenge it.. to
> accept it.
> I don't know, maybe I never will, but I do hope there is more...
>

In article <7gh59j5a93tslel0fehnvnpvrk0f1hlobe@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...
>
> Scout wrote:
>
> > Looking back on my life and the suffering I did.. much of it helped me
> > become the better person I am today. Even the suffering that seemed
> > unnecessary, helped me to learn to accept, understand and deal with
> > suffering without being crushed by it. Which allowed me to learn from other
> > suffering that might have crushed me without what prior suffering taught me.
> > So no, to think you know enough to decide what suffering should or shouldn't
> > be allowed, is to deny people the capacity to learn from such suffering so
> > they could stand up under suffering that may come later than you need to
> > stand up under it.
>
> IOW, suffering is necessary because it teaches us how to
> cope with suffering.
>
>
> > Once again, you are attempting to play God, without even attempting to
> > consider the consequences of your actions. You would make a very poor God.
>
> IOW, using one's natural faculties is playing God, so
> being fat drunk & stupid is the best way to go thru life.

Huh?

On 7/13/2024 12:33 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> news:v6u881$3ld90$4@dont-email.me:
>
>>
>>
>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:XnsB1AD80BA53851629555@185.151.15.190...
>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>> news:v6rhmv$332su$7@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:XnsB1ACD38BC1AB7629555@185.151.15.190...
>>>>> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
>>>>> news:v6pi30 $2knpg$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/07/2024 3:37 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>>>> news:v6onj4
>>>>>>> $2g188$8@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:XnsB1AB7F2475B95629555@185.151.15.160...
>>>>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:v6m78d$1v0jr$8@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:XnsB1AA828AE711629555@185.151.15.190...
>>>>>>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> news:v6jl2l $1ebn2$20@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:XnsB1A9D7EAF3E86629555@185.151.15.190...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam <samt@samt.invalid> wrote in news:lf3kckFcicnU1
>>>>>>>>>>> @mid.individual.net:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 9 Jul 2024 11:37:20 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sure, if we all walked in truth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the Name of Jesus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LOL! That is quite the babbling signature you have. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to say, "Hate people that do not believe as I do!"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That IS what the Bible requires..............
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Death to Followers of Other Religions
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Exodus 22:19)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kill Nonbelievers
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kill Followers of Other Religions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You mean the bible written by PEOPLE?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "God's Holy Word"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Divinely Inspired"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Holy Writ"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So written by people.. possibly even delusional people, and
>>>>>>>>>> that's suppose to be accepted blindly and without question?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What about when the Bible contradicts itself.. how are we
>>>>>>>>>> suppose
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> take that if we can't accept that the authors are flawed human
>>>>> beings
>>>>>>>>>> and thus the Bible is imperfect?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Take that up with Pastor Hartung, he
>>>>>>>>> runs away every time I ask him these sorts
>>>>>>>>> of questions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm taking it up with YOU.. you're the one claiming the Bible
>>>>>>>> has to
>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> blindly obeyed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Huh?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I posted above was satire.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Bible is just contradictory
>>>>>>> and nonsensical gobbledy-gook invented
>>>>>>> by illiterate goat herders to explain
>>>>>>> what they didn't know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't get it, Mitchell.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You use the bible (e.g., your nonsensical gobbledy-gook) as your
>>>>>> argument and reference for your truth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are the greatest bible believing, non-bible believing, atheist
>>>>>> I know. :-).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The first step toward atheism
>>>>> is actually READING the Bible.
>>>>
>>>> Ok, I'll bite.. How does reading the bible establish that Gods do
>>>> not, can not, and have never existed....
>>>>
>>>> I mean I can see where you might have doubts, and become agnostic..
>>>> but to flip to the total denial seems unfounded.... After all, what
>>>> would an ant make of us? What makes you think an intelligence as
>>>> much above us as we are above an ant simply could not exist?
>>>>
>>>> So let me try your own argument. Prove that God doesn't exist.
>>>
>>>
>>> The demand for proof of a negative:
>>> always the sign of a failed argument.
>>
>> If you cant prove God doesn't exist, then God could exist without your
>> knowledge.
>
>
> "Could exist"?
>
> If your faith had any facts
> behind it you wouldn't need faith.

Fact:

https://www.sci.news/othersciences/paleoclimatology/article00384.html

https://cdn.sci.news/images/2012/06/image_384.jpg

https://biblearchaeology.org/research/patriarchal-era/2364-the-discovery-of-the-sin-cities-of-sodom-and-gomorrah

Faith:

https://guidedtoursofisrael.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/lot-wife.jpg?w=300

In article <83i59jd58pkdhgbje95l91banjqi94j5n6@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...
>
> Scout wrote:
> > "Baxter" <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> wrote in message
> ...
> > > Prove that an animal has faith.
> >
> > Animals waiting years in a specific spot for their owners to return
> > somewhere.
> >
> > If that isn't faith, what would you call it?
>
> Conditioned response.

Yet no answer to it.

On 7/13/2024 12:28 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
> I am not demanding anything, just
> pointing out the errors and contradictions
> in YOUR "Holy" text.

Without proof of course.

Skeeter wrote:
> In article <7gh59j5a93tslel0fehnvnpvrk0f1hlobe@4ax.com>,
> twang@the.noodle says...
>>
>> Scout wrote:
>>
>>> Looking back on my life and the suffering I did.. much of it helped me
>>> become the better person I am today. Even the suffering that seemed
>>> unnecessary, helped me to learn to accept, understand and deal with
>>> suffering without being crushed by it. Which allowed me to learn from other
>>> suffering that might have crushed me without what prior suffering taught me.
>>> So no, to think you know enough to decide what suffering should or shouldn't
>>> be allowed, is to deny people the capacity to learn from such suffering so
>>> they could stand up under suffering that may come later than you need to
>>> stand up under it.
>>
>> IOW, suffering is necessary because it teaches us how to
>> cope with suffering.
>>
>>
>>> Once again, you are attempting to play God, without even attempting to
>>> consider the consequences of your actions. You would make a very poor God.
>>
>> IOW, using one's natural faculties is playing God, so
>> being fat drunk & stupid is the best way to go thru life.
>
> Huh?
>

i am not fat

On Sat, 13 Jul 2024 13:30:49 -0600, Skeeter
<skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote:

>In article <v6u88b$3ld90$16@dont-email.me>,
>me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net says...
>>
>> "Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:fos29jd7698j1l9quut3kve4vfj2oviom8@4ax.com...
>> > On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 11:28:47 -0400, "Scout"
>> > <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>"Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >>news:q0709j5rrn8aj7t2d2s44stoo8p2pjj7b0@4ax.com...
>> >>> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 13:18:58 -0400, "Scout"
>> >>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>"Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >>>>news:rq109jtkr3flolmv3n7luc2cugdmfc3vt6@4ax.com...
>> >>>>> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 09:13:14 -0400, "Scout"
>> >>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>"Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >>>>>>news:h28u8j98e8hm2gq7c61djiqbdeqvb0mbs9@4ax.com...
>> >>>>>>> On Wed, 10 Jul 2024 10:08:56 -0400, "Scout"
>> >>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> <snip>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>Seems like it. It's just a different faith.. I mean they even have
>> >>>>>>>>their
>> >>>>>>>>own
>> >>>>>>>>churches. So either they are lying about their lack of faith or they
>> >>>>>>>>are
>> >>>>>>>>committing tax evasion and should go to jail.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Even the hardened Kevrob atheist admitted he leaves the door ever
>> >>>>>>>>> so
>> >>>>>>>>> slightly open, which was honest.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>True, you have to give him that. I tend to be more of an agnostic
>> >>>>>>>>type
>> >>>>>>>>of
>> >>>>>>>>person. I would acknowledge the possibility of one or more entities
>> >>>>>>>>which
>> >>>>>>>>would be god like, but currently we have no true evidence of such
>> >>>>>>>>being(s).
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> We don't currently have any true evidence of the existence of pink
>> >>>>>>> garden unicorns. Are you agnostic about their existence?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>Yep. If you believe in them and it makes you happy, and doesn't harm
>> >>>>>>anyone
>> >>>>>>else. Go for it.
>> >>>>>>After all, in all the Universe there well could be something we might
>> >>>>>>call
>> >>>>>>a
>> >>>>>>pink garden unicorn.. or there could not.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>With up to 2 trillion galaxies in the universe that we know of or
>> >>>>>>suspect,
>> >>>>>>and each galaxy having about 100 Billion stars be galaxy, and if we
>> >>>>>>assume
>> >>>>>>1.6 planets per star.. and then if we assume only 0.1% of those are
>> >>>>>>habitable, and only 0.1% of those are inhabited.. That leaves a LOT of
>> >>>>>>room
>> >>>>>>for a pink garden unicorn to exist or not.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> What about the Keebler Elves? Could *they* be lurking in a tree near
>> >>>>> you?
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Lame evasion.
>> >>>
>> >>> How so?
>> >>
>> >>Because your line of questioning as already failed.
>> >
>> > Okay. Let's just say for the sake of argument that that part of my
>> > questioning failed. How do you deal with my *next* question, about
>> > the Keebler Elves? Or was it just a lame evasion on your part?
>>
>> Easy, you've already failed and there is no reason to continue this
>> stupidity deeper down the rabbit hole.
>>
>>
>
>He's always spinning away or insulting.

Scout was trying to put the right spin on his failure to disprove the
existence of the Keebler Elves. And generally, I don't insult people
unless they insult me first, unless you consider being candid to be
insulting.

In article <e1o59j1j74tifbqs1j806mg3tgs2e2uo9f@4ax.com>,
maycock@gmail.com says...
>
> On Sat, 13 Jul 2024 13:30:49 -0600, Skeeter
> <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <v6u88b$3ld90$16@dont-email.me>,
> >me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net says...
> >>
> >> "Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:fos29jd7698j1l9quut3kve4vfj2oviom8@4ax.com...
> >> > On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 11:28:47 -0400, "Scout"
> >> > <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>"Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> >>news:q0709j5rrn8aj7t2d2s44stoo8p2pjj7b0@4ax.com...
> >> >>> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 13:18:58 -0400, "Scout"
> >> >>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>"Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> >>>>news:rq109jtkr3flolmv3n7luc2cugdmfc3vt6@4ax.com...
> >> >>>>> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 09:13:14 -0400, "Scout"
> >> >>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>"Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> >>>>>>news:h28u8j98e8hm2gq7c61djiqbdeqvb0mbs9@4ax.com...
> >> >>>>>>> On Wed, 10 Jul 2024 10:08:56 -0400, "Scout"
> >> >>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> <snip>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>Seems like it. It's just a different faith.. I mean they even have
> >> >>>>>>>>their
> >> >>>>>>>>own
> >> >>>>>>>>churches. So either they are lying about their lack of faith or they
> >> >>>>>>>>are
> >> >>>>>>>>committing tax evasion and should go to jail.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> Even the hardened Kevrob atheist admitted he leaves the door ever
> >> >>>>>>>>> so
> >> >>>>>>>>> slightly open, which was honest.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>True, you have to give him that. I tend to be more of an agnostic
> >> >>>>>>>>type
> >> >>>>>>>>of
> >> >>>>>>>>person. I would acknowledge the possibility of one or more entities
> >> >>>>>>>>which
> >> >>>>>>>>would be god like, but currently we have no true evidence of such
> >> >>>>>>>>being(s).
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> We don't currently have any true evidence of the existence of pink
> >> >>>>>>> garden unicorns. Are you agnostic about their existence?
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>Yep. If you believe in them and it makes you happy, and doesn't harm
> >> >>>>>>anyone
> >> >>>>>>else. Go for it.
> >> >>>>>>After all, in all the Universe there well could be something we might
> >> >>>>>>call
> >> >>>>>>a
> >> >>>>>>pink garden unicorn.. or there could not.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>With up to 2 trillion galaxies in the universe that we know of or
> >> >>>>>>suspect,
> >> >>>>>>and each galaxy having about 100 Billion stars be galaxy, and if we
> >> >>>>>>assume
> >> >>>>>>1.6 planets per star.. and then if we assume only 0.1% of those are
> >> >>>>>>habitable, and only 0.1% of those are inhabited.. That leaves a LOT of
> >> >>>>>>room
> >> >>>>>>for a pink garden unicorn to exist or not.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> What about the Keebler Elves? Could *they* be lurking in a tree near
> >> >>>>> you?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>Lame evasion.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> How so?
> >> >>
> >> >>Because your line of questioning as already failed.
> >> >
> >> > Okay. Let's just say for the sake of argument that that part of my
> >> > questioning failed. How do you deal with my *next* question, about
> >> > the Keebler Elves? Or was it just a lame evasion on your part?
> >>
> >> Easy, you've already failed and there is no reason to continue this
> >> stupidity deeper down the rabbit hole.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >He's always spinning away or insulting.
>
> Scout was trying to put the right spin on his failure to disprove the
> existence of the Keebler Elves. And generally, I don't insult people
> unless they insult me first, unless you consider being candid to be
> insulting.

Naw, go on and have fun.

On 13/07/2024 11:50 pm, Scout wrote:
>
>
> "In the Name of Jesus" <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in message
> news:v6sd9j$3764m$5@dont-email.me...
>> On 13/07/2024 1:28 am, Scout wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:q0709j5rrn8aj7t2d2s44stoo8p2pjj7b0@4ax.com...
>>>> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 13:18:58 -0400, "Scout"
>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:rq109jtkr3flolmv3n7luc2cugdmfc3vt6@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 09:13:14 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:h28u8j98e8hm2gq7c61djiqbdeqvb0mbs9@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 10 Jul 2024 10:08:56 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Seems like it. It's just a different faith.. I mean they even
>>>>>>>>> have their
>>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>> churches. So either they are lying about their lack of faith or
>>>>>>>>> they are
>>>>>>>>> committing tax evasion and should go to jail.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Even the hardened Kevrob atheist admitted he leaves the door
>>>>>>>>>> ever so
>>>>>>>>>> slightly open, which was honest.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> True, you have to give him that. I tend to be more of an
>>>>>>>>> agnostic type
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> person. I would acknowledge the possibility of one or more
>>>>>>>>> entities
>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>> would be god like, but currently we have no true evidence of such
>>>>>>>>> being(s).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We don't currently have any true evidence of the existence of pink
>>>>>>>> garden unicorns.  Are you agnostic about their existence?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yep. If you believe in them and it makes you happy, and doesn't harm
>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>> else. Go for it.
>>>>>>> After all, in all the Universe there well could be something we
>>>>>>> might call
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> pink garden unicorn.. or there could not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With up to 2 trillion galaxies in the universe that we know of or
>>>>>>> suspect,
>>>>>>> and each galaxy having about 100 Billion stars be galaxy, and if
>>>>>>> we assume
>>>>>>> 1.6 planets per star.. and then if we assume only 0.1% of those are
>>>>>>> habitable, and only 0.1% of those are inhabited.. That leaves a
>>>>>>> LOT of
>>>>>>> room
>>>>>>> for a pink garden unicorn to exist or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What about the Keebler Elves?  Could *they* be lurking in a tree near
>>>>>> you?
>>>>>
>>>>> Lame evasion.
>>>>
>>>> How so?
>>>
>>> Because your line of questioning as already failed.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> However, if our thoughts about the size of the Universe is
>>>>>>>>> anywhere
>>>>>>>>> close
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> being true, and the time that the Universe is thought to have
>>>>>>>>> existed..
>>>>>>>>> there could be entities that are as far above us, as we are
>>>>>>>>> above ants.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it possible, in your opinion, to rule out the existence of
>>>>>>>> certain
>>>>>>>> *types* of gods?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Depends on what type you're talking about.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  For example we know there can be no omnipotent omni-
>>>>>>>> benevolent god of the Christian sort out there
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Depends are you talking true omnipotence or something so far in
>>>>>>> advance of
>>>>>>> our civilization at the point of contact to appear so?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Either one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then I would put it that a civilization advanced enough to easily
>>>>> travel
>>>>> between the stars would appear damn near omnipotent to the people
>>>>> 2000 years
>>>>> ago.
>>>>
>>>> True.  What's your point?
>>>
>>> That you just agreed with me, thus establishing my point made that
>>> you can't possibly know what you asserted you did above.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> Further, from my readings God is not omni-benevolent, in fact in
>>>>>>> some ways
>>>>>>> God seems quite selfish, particularly when it comes worship.
>>>>>>> See Exodus 20:3-5/6 depending on which version you use.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course that is somewhat contradicted by claims there are no
>>>>>>> other Gods
>>>>>>> while at the same time declaring there shall be no Gods before him.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, yea, there is a lot of wiggle room there. I certainly know of
>>>>>>> no claim
>>>>>>> of omnipotence or omni-benevolence from the Biblical God.
>>>>>>> I mean he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for a rather petty reason
>>>>>>> by a few
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the people who lived there. Hardly seems omni-benevolent to me.
>>>>>>> I mean consider endless eternal damnation for limited and very
>>>>>>> finite
>>>>>>> offenses...  Does that sound like being omni-benevolent?
>>>>>>> Yes, the Bible is full of such contradictions within itself and
>>>>>>> within
>>>>>>> religions teachings of it.
>>>>>>> Now perhaps in God's view his is both.. but from ours, not so much.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zf626yc/revision/1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So you're saying if the Christian god exists, he must be evil?
>>>>>
>>>>> Would depend on your point of view, wouldn't it?
>>>>
>>>> What would prevent God from sharing this rather important information
>>>> with us about human suffering from his point of view?
>>>
>>> Lack of understanding? Knowledge you would never understand it at
>>> your age of development.
>>>
>>> I mean do you explain to a 9 month old baby why you are going to stab
>>> them with a sharp object, or do you do so because you know it's for
>>> the good of the baby?
>>>
>>> I mean you could try to explain it.. but realizing it's futile to do
>>> so, who would bother?
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Even benevolence can seem like utter cruelty to the ill informed
>>>>> and visa
>>>>> verse.
>>>>
>>>> So is this the "best of all possible worlds," in your view?
>>>
>>> Hardly, but it could be better than it might have been otherwise..
>>> See above about the baby receiving a shot.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>  I
>>>>>> wouldn't quarrel with that -- but since Christians are generally
>>>>>> unwilling to agree with a statement like that, I generally phrase it
>>>>>> as "the Christian god does not exist."
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, first we would have to establish exactly what the term
>>>>> "Christian god"
>>>>> means and exactly how that is supported.  In a discussion like that
>>>>> precise
>>>>> and specific meaning would need to be determined and supported. Not
>>>>> just
>>>>> from the view of the people saying it but also what they can
>>>>> support as
>>>>> being directly referenced. I mean it's nice to say God is
>>>>> omnipotent, but
>>>>> did God ever state that and to what if any limits, either inherent
>>>>> or self
>>>>> imposed.
>>>>
>>>> At the very least, the Bible portrays God as being really powerful;
>>>
>>> Agreed and given the civilization at the time, that wouldn't be that
>>> hard to do. Heck we could probably do at least some of that today if
>>> we wanted to.
>>>
>>>> so
>>>> we don't necessarily have to even  mention the idea of omnipotence
>>>
>>> Well since we are the ones that asserted omnipotence... it would be
>>> our error.
>>>
>>>> when investigating all the suffering around us and asking why God
>>>> would allow it, if he existed.
>>>
>>> Reference the baby above. Do you crawl on your hands and knees
>>> because otherwise you might have to suffer learning to walk?
>>> Do you refuse to swim because you might suffer some learning how to
>>> do so?
>>>
>>> Nope, if you had your way, we could neither feed ourselves, move
>>> ourselves or even care for ourselves.. the "benevolent god" would
>>> have to care and provide for us every moment of every day, and
>>> prevent us from doing or seeking anything else.
>>>
>>> No, suffering is sometimes necessary to growth. To suggest none
>>> should exist is to deny growth, change, advancement.... which hardly
>>> sounds like something a benevolent God would do.
>>>
>>> Really? You need to try to think these things through for yourself..
>>> as it is you're just looking like a fool.
>>
>> Vincent has a strong tendency to tweak, twist, and distort in order to
>> try and shift what he believes into an edifice of fact, reality, and
>> truth.
>>
>> There is plain old common sense in your replies. It is actually
>> refreshing. Skeeter's replies are quite often similar.
>>
>> Personally, I am not bothered if a person is atheist, agnostic, or
>> religious; in all cases every day common sense, logic, and truth is
>> most welcome.
>
> Yep, free will means we can have different beliefs. The ONLY thing I
> tend to look for is your ability to support your beliefs even if only
> because you believe in it by faith... and if that's the case, allow
> others to do the same. If you're going to demand proof of their beliefs
> then you should be willing to do the same for yours.
> Indeed, I just had a thought.. maybe, it's not so much what about what
> your faith is, than it is about you having faith.  Interesting notion. I
> will have to think on that.
>
>
> In short, generally, don't ask for what you wouldn't provide.
>
> I have had several people tell me that I am a deeply spiritual person,
> because I've at least given the matter serious thought.
> Perhaps, that's all that is really needed...
> To have a faith, to think about it, to question it, to challenge it.. to
> accept it.
> I don't know, maybe I never will, but I do hope there is more...

On 14/07/2024 4:10 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Jul 2024 10:02:27 -0400, "Scout"
> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:mvs29jd9tp0uh0dkkmssam0s4d4v3mk9nn@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 11:29:18 -0400, "Scout"
>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:3hr09jhr1nob645n6c0qv68fmi915e42k2@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 15:17:14 -0700, "Andrew"
>>>>> <andrew.321.remov@usa.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Vincent Maycock" wrote in message
>>>>>> news:q0709j5rrn8aj7t2d2s44stoo8p2pjj7b0@4ax.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At the very least, the Bible portrays God as being really powerful; so
>>>>>>> we don't necessarily have to even mention the idea of omnipotence
>>>>>>> when investigating all the suffering around us and asking why God
>>>>>>> would allow it, if he existed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The suffering, sorrow, pain and death in this realm are all temporary.
>>>>>
>>>>> What are they doing here at all, temporary or not?
>>>>
>>>> Necessary to growth, development and self dependency.
>>>
>>> Some forms of suffering are. Others most definitely are not.
>>
>> Are they?
>>
>>> Would
>>> you support the abolishment of hospitals and police officers so we can
>>> have more suffering leading to growth, development, and
>>> self-dependency?
>>
>> Would you refuse to allow us to operate because it would increase their
>> suffering?
>
> Let's say that someone is suffering intensely and they really need a
> surgery to ease their pain. Would you refuse to operate on them so
> that they experience growth, development and self dependency that you
> claim all suffering bestows on us?
>
>> Would you refuse to allow police officers to help people even if that meant
>> they might suffer from that aid?
>
> As long as there's a net reduction in suffering, yes. You keep
> ignoring the fact that I'm not saying *all* suffering should be
> removed (although any suffering is a problem for an omnipotent
> omnibenevolent god of the Christian sort -- but that's irrelevant to
> this discussion because you don't believe in that sort of god) -- only
> that *some* suffering serves no purpose and should not be allowed by
> an even moderately powerful and caring entity that exists out there.

You can't make that call. You are not that omnipotent, Vincent.

Which begs the question?

What depth of egocentric delusion would a human being have by placing
themselves in the position of majestic magistrate over all of creation?

1 Cor 4:5  Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come,
who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will
make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have
praise of God.

There is more than you, Vincent.

Believe it, it is the truth.

In the Name of Jesus

>
>> Must be wonderful to have the Godlike powers you seems to assert
>> possessing...
>>
>> Looking back on my life and the suffering I did.. much of it helped me
>> become the better person I am today. Even the suffering that seemed
>> unnecessary, helped me to learn to accept, understand and deal with
>> suffering without being crushed by it.
>
> Would you volunteer to experiment on the beneficial effects of
> suffering by allowing yourself to be brutally beaten to within an inch
> of your life?
>
>> which allowed me to learn from other
>> suffering that might have crushed me without what prior suffering taught me.
>
> That's interesting. I, on the other hand, can't think of any
> suffering that I need to help me from being crushed by future
> suffering.
>
>> So no, to think you know enough to decide what suffering should or shouldn't
>> be allowed, is to deny people the capacity to learn from such suffering so
>> they could stand up under suffering that may come later than you need to
>> stand up under it.
>>
>> Once again, you are attempting to play God,
>
> No, in reality, I reject the idea that we can't reason about God
> because he might be too powerful to understand. I see no evidence
> that reasoning about God is wrong because it's "playing God."
>
>> without even attempting to
>> consider the consequences of your actions.
>
> You introduce consequences of actions as if they're a panacea for all
> suffering, but sometimes those just consequences just don't exist,
> regardless of how you much you appeal to them to support your
> agnosticism.
>
>> You would make a very poor God.
>
> I would make a better god than whatever god you imagine could exist,
> because I would lend a helping hand to someone in need, while huge
> numbers of people die without help from God when they're in need.

--
God is God in all His Being. All the glory is His, for He is all glory.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

"The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence or proof is to be found."

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

On 14/07/2024 4:27 am, El Kabong wrote:
> Scout wrote:
>
>> Looking back on my life and the suffering I did.. much of it helped me
>> become the better person I am today. Even the suffering that seemed
>> unnecessary, helped me to learn to accept, understand and deal with
>> suffering without being crushed by it. Which allowed me to learn from other
>> suffering that might have crushed me without what prior suffering taught me.
>> So no, to think you know enough to decide what suffering should or shouldn't
>> be allowed, is to deny people the capacity to learn from such suffering so
>> they could stand up under suffering that may come later than you need to
>> stand up under it.
>
> IOW, suffering is necessary because it teaches us how to
> cope with suffering.
>
>
>> Once again, you are attempting to play God, without even attempting to
>> consider the consequences of your actions. You would make a very poor God.
>
> IOW, using one's natural faculties is playing God, so
> being fat drunk & stupid is the best way to go thru life.

You need to stop fertilizing your garden with battery acid, Kabong.

In the Name of Jesus

--
God is God in all His Being. All the glory is His, for He is all glory.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

"The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence or proof is to be found."

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that a sinner could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

What does a fool do? A fool looks for a "nothing" in a "something" in
order to explain the existence of existence.

"Unless you do all because He is who He is, all your religion is in vain."

"Every man is subject to God; He judges every man, and He is reality.
 What a gift in a fallen world!"

"Love MUST be a choice or it is nothing but a law!"

"Why were all men born sinners? So that God could reveal Himself, so
that we would behold the glory of God, and that we should bring forth
the glory of God"

"God does not and will not arbitrate for any man to love Him! If God
isn't everything to you, He is nothing to you where the rubber meets the
road."

"It is the unforgivable sin not to love God with all your heart, soul,
and mind. What do you have that is lasting? It is not so much being
punished; it is what you are left with."

"Love isn't worth anything without first a free will choice for God to
birth it in a man."

"The point of salvation: desperation. Anything less than that is
self-righteousness."

"A sinner is not a believer in God; a sinner is a believer in sin."

"A piece of dirt is not the promised land; that is only a reflection.
The promised land is knowing Me, says the Lord."

"It is all about God or it is all about idolatry."

"The Lord Jesus is coming soon. He has always come soon."

"There is no revolving door of self-worship in a son of God's life!"

"There is no such thing as random!"

"You can't truly love without it being with all your heart."

"No one can see God without their whole heart. Unless you can see God,
you know nothing."

"You can't learn God, God has to reveal Himself to you."

"No sinner is sinless in any way."

"Only God is life; only the Kingdom of God of His "Nature" is life."

"What you believe is just a leaning on your own understanding; faith is
a leaning on the one you have chosen to trust."

"God uses the "letter" to crucify a man and raise him from the dead."

"Not fearing God is sheer stupidity for sinners."

"Self-righteousness is any exclusion of God in your heart, because any
exclusion reveals that you think more about yourself than what you
really are."

"Atheism: "The claim that life received from itself."

"But remember this: always, absolutely always, all the glory is the
Lord's and His alone, and anyone who takes any credit for anything, you
know, instantly, he is not what he pretends to be and is a false prophet."

"That light had to bear (bears all things) the darkness for us, but that
light did not ever become darkness."

"You must reach beyond the bible that tells you about Him, and into your
daily life to find Him in Person. He's there."

"What is wrong with Christendom? False understanding based on compromise."

"It is not in man to love his enemies. And if he tries, he is walking in
a lie and trying to raise himself up to the level of God."

On 14/07/2024 5:29 am, Skeeter wrote:
> In article <v6u881$3ld90$4@dont-email.me>,
> me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net says...
>>
>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:XnsB1AD80BA53851629555@185.151.15.190...
>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>> news:v6rhmv$332su$7@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:XnsB1ACD38BC1AB7629555@185.151.15.190...
>>>>> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
>>>>> news:v6pi30 $2knpg$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/07/2024 3:37 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>>>> news:v6onj4
>>>>>>> $2g188$8@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:XnsB1AB7F2475B95629555@185.151.15.160...
>>>>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:v6m78d$1v0jr$8@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:XnsB1AA828AE711629555@185.151.15.190...
>>>>>>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> news:v6jl2l $1ebn2$20@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:XnsB1A9D7EAF3E86629555@185.151.15.190...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam <samt@samt.invalid> wrote in news:lf3kckFcicnU1
>>>>>>>>>>> @mid.individual.net:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 9 Jul 2024 11:37:20 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sure, if we all walked in truth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the Name of Jesus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LOL! That is quite the babbling signature you have. It seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to say, "Hate people that do not believe as I do!"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That IS what the Bible requires..............
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Death to Followers of Other Religions
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Exodus 22:19)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kill Nonbelievers
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kill Followers of Other Religions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You mean the bible written by PEOPLE?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "God's Holy Word"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Divinely Inspired"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Holy Writ"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So written by people.. possibly even delusional people, and
>>>>>>>>>> that's suppose to be accepted blindly and without question?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What about when the Bible contradicts itself.. how are we
>>>>>>>>>> suppose
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> take that if we can't accept that the authors are flawed human
>>>>> beings
>>>>>>>>>> and thus the Bible is imperfect?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Take that up with Pastor Hartung, he
>>>>>>>>> runs away every time I ask him these sorts
>>>>>>>>> of questions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm taking it up with YOU.. you're the one claiming the Bible has
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> blindly obeyed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Huh?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I posted above was satire.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Bible is just contradictory
>>>>>>> and nonsensical gobbledy-gook invented
>>>>>>> by illiterate goat herders to explain
>>>>>>> what they didn't know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't get it, Mitchell.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You use the bible (e.g., your nonsensical gobbledy-gook) as your
>>>>>> argument and reference for your truth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are the greatest bible believing, non-bible believing, atheist I
>>>>>> know. :-).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The first step toward atheism
>>>>> is actually READING the Bible.
>>>>
>>>> Ok, I'll bite.. How does reading the bible establish that Gods do not,
>>>> can not, and have never existed....
>>>>
>>>> I mean I can see where you might have doubts, and become agnostic..
>>>> but to flip to the total denial seems unfounded.... After all, what
>>>> would an ant make of us? What makes you think an intelligence as much
>>>> above us as we are above an ant simply could not exist?
>>>>
>>>> So let me try your own argument. Prove that God doesn't exist.
>>>
>>>
>>> The demand for proof of a negative:
>>> always the sign of a failed argument.
>>
>> If you cant prove God doesn't exist, then God could exist without your
>> knowledge.
>>
>> I mean you are the one claiming that there is no possibility of a Godlike
>> being.... So where is your proof?
>>
> Even the smartest of the smart will admit they really don't know.

If you go to the dumbest of the dumb, they got there sooner. Go figure. :-).

In the Name of Jesus

--
God is God in all His Being. All the glory is His, for He is all glory.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

On 14/07/2024 5:43 am, % wrote:
> Skeeter wrote:
>> In article <7gh59j5a93tslel0fehnvnpvrk0f1hlobe@4ax.com>,
>> twang@the.noodle says...
>>>
>>> Scout wrote:
>>>
>>>> Looking back on my life and the suffering I did.. much of it helped me
>>>> become the better person I am today. Even the suffering that seemed
>>>> unnecessary, helped me to learn to accept, understand and deal with
>>>> suffering without being crushed by it. Which allowed me to learn
>>>> from other
>>>> suffering that might have crushed me without what prior suffering
>>>> taught me.
>>>> So no, to think you know enough to decide what suffering should or
>>>> shouldn't
>>>> be allowed, is to deny people the capacity to learn from such
>>>> suffering so
>>>> they could stand up under suffering that may come later than you
>>>> need to
>>>> stand up under it.
>>>
>>> IOW, suffering is necessary because it teaches us how to
>>> cope with suffering.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Once again, you are attempting to play God, without even attempting to
>>>> consider the consequences of your actions. You would make a very
>>>> poor God.
>>>
>>> IOW, using one's natural faculties is playing God, so
>>> being fat drunk & stupid is the best way to go thru life.
>>
>> Huh?
>>
>
> i am not fat

Hahahahahahaha...

In the Name of Jesus

--
God is God in all His Being. All the glory is His, for He is all glory.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

"The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence or proof is to be found."

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that a sinner could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

What does a fool do? A fool looks for a "nothing" in a "something" in
order to explain the existence of existence.

"Unless you do all because He is who He is, all your religion is in vain."

"Every man is subject to God; He judges every man, and He is reality.
 What a gift in a fallen world!"

"Love MUST be a choice or it is nothing but a law!"

"Why were all men born sinners? So that God could reveal Himself, so
that we would behold the glory of God, and that we should bring forth
the glory of God"

"God does not and will not arbitrate for any man to love Him! If God
isn't everything to you, He is nothing to you where the rubber meets the
road."

"It is the unforgivable sin not to love God with all your heart, soul,
and mind. What do you have that is lasting? It is not so much being
punished; it is what you are left with."

"Love isn't worth anything without first a free will choice for God to
birth it in a man."

"The point of salvation: desperation. Anything less than that is
self-righteousness."

"A sinner is not a believer in God; a sinner is a believer in sin."

"A piece of dirt is not the promised land; that is only a reflection.
The promised land is knowing Me, says the Lord."

"It is all about God or it is all about idolatry."

"The Lord Jesus is coming soon. He has always come soon."

"There is no revolving door of self-worship in a son of God's life!"

"There is no such thing as random!"

"You can't truly love without it being with all your heart."

"No one can see God without their whole heart. Unless you can see God,
you know nothing."

"You can't learn God, God has to reveal Himself to you."

"No sinner is sinless in any way."

"Only God is life; only the Kingdom of God of His "Nature" is life."

"What you believe is just a leaning on your own understanding; faith is
a leaning on the one you have chosen to trust."

"God uses the "letter" to crucify a man and raise him from the dead."

"Not fearing God is sheer stupidity for sinners."

"Self-righteousness is any exclusion of God in your heart, because any
exclusion reveals that you think more about yourself than what you
really are."

"Atheism: "The claim that life received from itself."

"But remember this: always, absolutely always, all the glory is the
Lord's and His alone, and anyone who takes any credit for anything, you
know, instantly, he is not what he pretends to be and is a false prophet."

"That light had to bear (bears all things) the darkness for us, but that
light did not ever become darkness."

"You must reach beyond the bible that tells you about Him, and into your
daily life to find Him in Person. He's there."

"What is wrong with Christendom? False understanding based on compromise."

"It is not in man to love his enemies. And if he tries, he is walking in
a lie and trying to raise himself up to the level of God."

El Kabong <twang@the.noodle> wrote in
news:83i59jd58pkdhgbje95l91banjqi94j5n6@4ax.com:

> Scout wrote:
>> "Baxter" <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> wrote in message
> ...
>> > Prove that an animal has faith.
>>
>> Animals waiting years in a specific spot for their owners to return
>> somewhere.
>>
>> If that isn't faith, what would you call it?
>
> Conditioned response.
>
Maybe they like the smell. First it was the scent of the deceased owner,
later the environment.

Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote in
news:6692d584$0$970$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com:

> In article <v6u881$3ld90$4@dont-email.me>,
> me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net says...
>>
>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:XnsB1AD80BA53851629555@185.151.15.190...
>> > "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>> > news:v6rhmv$332su$7@dont-email.me:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:XnsB1ACD38BC1AB7629555@185.151.15.190...
>> >>> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
>> >>> news:v6pi30 $2knpg$1@dont-email.me:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 12/07/2024 3:37 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> >>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>> >>> news:v6onj4
>> >>>>> $2g188$8@dont-email.me:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>> >>>>>> news:XnsB1AB7F2475B95629555@185.151.15.160...
>> >>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>> >>>>>>> news:v6m78d$1v0jr$8@dont-email.me:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>> >>>>>>>> news:XnsB1AA828AE711629555@185.151.15.190...
>> >>>>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote
>> >>>>>>>>> in news:v6jl2l $1ebn2$20@dont-email.me:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>> >>>>>>>>>> news:XnsB1A9D7EAF3E86629555@185.151.15.190...
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sam <samt@samt.invalid> wrote in news:lf3kckFcicnU1
>> >>>>>>>>> @mid.individual.net:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 9 Jul 2024 11:37:20 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sure, if we all walked in truth.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In the Name of Jesus
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> LOL! That is quite the babbling signature you have. It
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> seems to say, "Hate people that do not believe as I do!"
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> That IS what the Bible requires..............
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Death to Followers of Other Religions
>> >>>>>>>>>>> (Exodus 22:19)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Kill Nonbelievers
>> >>>>>>>>>>> (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
>> >>>>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Kill Followers of Other Religions.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> You mean the bible written by PEOPLE?
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> "God's Holy Word"
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> "Divinely Inspired"
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> "Holy Writ"
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> So written by people.. possibly even delusional people, and
>> >>>>>>>> that's suppose to be accepted blindly and without question?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> What about when the Bible contradicts itself.. how are we
>> >>>>>>>> suppose
>> >>> to
>> >>>>>>>> take that if we can't accept that the authors are flawed
>> >>>>>>>> human
>> >>> beings
>> >>>>>>>> and thus the Bible is imperfect?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Take that up with Pastor Hartung, he
>> >>>>>>> runs away every time I ask him these sorts
>> >>>>>>> of questions.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I'm taking it up with YOU.. you're the one claiming the Bible
>> >>>>>> has to
>> >>> be
>> >>>>>> blindly obeyed.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Huh?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> What I posted above was satire.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The Bible is just contradictory
>> >>>>> and nonsensical gobbledy-gook invented
>> >>>>> by illiterate goat herders to explain
>> >>>>> what they didn't know.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> You don't get it, Mitchell.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> You use the bible (e.g., your nonsensical gobbledy-gook) as your
>> >>>> argument and reference for your truth.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> You are the greatest bible believing, non-bible believing,
>> >>>> atheist I know. :-).
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> The first step toward atheism
>> >>> is actually READING the Bible.
>> >>
>> >> Ok, I'll bite.. How does reading the bible establish that Gods do
>> >> not, can not, and have never existed....
>> >>
>> >> I mean I can see where you might have doubts, and become
>> >> agnostic.. but to flip to the total denial seems unfounded....
>> >> After all, what would an ant make of us? What makes you think an
>> >> intelligence as much above us as we are above an ant simply could
>> >> not exist?
>> >>
>> >> So let me try your own argument. Prove that God doesn't exist.
>> >
>> >
>> > The demand for proof of a negative:
>> > always the sign of a failed argument.
>>
>> If you cant prove God doesn't exist, then God could exist without
>> your knowledge.
>>
>> I mean you are the one claiming that there is no possibility of a
>> Godlike being.... So where is your proof?
>>
> Even the smartest of the smart will admit they really don't know.
>

C_V <c_v@invalid.net> wrote in news:v6ul5n$3nfff$12@dont-email.me:

> On 7/13/2024 12:33 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>> news:v6u881$3ld90$4@dont-email.me:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:XnsB1AD80BA53851629555@185.151.15.190...
>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>>> news:v6rhmv$332su$7@dont-email.me:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:XnsB1ACD38BC1AB7629555@185.151.15.190...
>>>>>> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
>>>>>> news:v6pi30 $2knpg$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/07/2024 3:37 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>>>>> news:v6onj4
>>>>>>>> $2g188$8@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:XnsB1AB7F2475B95629555@185.151.15.160...
>>>>>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> news:v6m78d$1v0jr$8@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:XnsB1AA828AE711629555@185.151.15.190...
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> in news:v6jl2l $1ebn2$20@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:XnsB1A9D7EAF3E86629555@185.151.15.190...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam <samt@samt.invalid> wrote in news:lf3kckFcicnU1
>>>>>>>>>>>> @mid.individual.net:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 9 Jul 2024 11:37:20 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sure, if we all walked in truth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the Name of Jesus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LOL! That is quite the babbling signature you have. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to say, "Hate people that do not believe as I do!"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That IS what the Bible requires..............
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Death to Followers of Other Religions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Exodus 22:19)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kill Nonbelievers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kill Followers of Other Religions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You mean the bible written by PEOPLE?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "God's Holy Word"
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Divinely Inspired"
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Holy Writ"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So written by people.. possibly even delusional people, and
>>>>>>>>>>> that's suppose to be accepted blindly and without question?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What about when the Bible contradicts itself.. how are we
>>>>>>>>>>> suppose
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> take that if we can't accept that the authors are flawed
>>>>>>>>>>> human
>>>>>> beings
>>>>>>>>>>> and thus the Bible is imperfect?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Take that up with Pastor Hartung, he
>>>>>>>>>> runs away every time I ask him these sorts
>>>>>>>>>> of questions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm taking it up with YOU.. you're the one claiming the Bible
>>>>>>>>> has to
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> blindly obeyed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Huh?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What I posted above was satire.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Bible is just contradictory
>>>>>>>> and nonsensical gobbledy-gook invented
>>>>>>>> by illiterate goat herders to explain
>>>>>>>> what they didn't know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You don't get it, Mitchell.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You use the bible (e.g., your nonsensical gobbledy-gook) as your
>>>>>>> argument and reference for your truth.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are the greatest bible believing, non-bible believing,
>>>>>>> atheist I know. :-).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The first step toward atheism
>>>>>> is actually READING the Bible.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, I'll bite.. How does reading the bible establish that Gods do
>>>>> not, can not, and have never existed....
>>>>>
>>>>> I mean I can see where you might have doubts, and become
>>>>> agnostic.. but to flip to the total denial seems unfounded....
>>>>> After all, what would an ant make of us? What makes you think an
>>>>> intelligence as much above us as we are above an ant simply could
>>>>> not exist?
>>>>>
>>>>> So let me try your own argument. Prove that God doesn't exist.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The demand for proof of a negative:
>>>> always the sign of a failed argument.
>>>
>>> If you cant prove God doesn't exist, then God could exist without
>>> your knowledge.
>>
>>
>> "Could exist"?
>>
>> If your faith had any facts
>> behind it you wouldn't need faith.
>
> Fact:
>
> https://www.sci.news/othersciences/paleoclimatology/article00384.html
>
> https://cdn.sci.news/images/2012/06/image_384.jpg
>
> https://biblearchaeology.org/research/patriarchal-era/2364-the-discover
> y-of-the-sin-cities-of-sodom-and-gomorrah

On Sun, 14 Jul 2024 09:00:22 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
<michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 14/07/2024 4:10 am, Vincent Maycock wrote:
>> On Sat, 13 Jul 2024 10:02:27 -0400, "Scout"
<snip uncommented text>
>>> Would you refuse to allow police officers to help people even if that meant
>>> they might suffer from that aid?
>>
>> As long as there's a net reduction in suffering, no. You keep
>> ignoring the fact that I'm not saying *all* suffering should be
>> removed (although any suffering is a problem for an omnipotent
>> omnibenevolent god of the Christian sort -- but that's irrelevant to
>> this discussion because you don't believe in that sort of god) -- only
>> that *some* suffering serves no purpose and should not be allowed by
>> an even moderately powerful and caring entity that exists out there.
>
>You can't make that call. You are not that omnipotent, Vincent.

It's a call that can be made without any omnipotence being needed.

>Which begs the question?
>
>What depth of egocentric delusion would a human being have by placing
>themselves in the position of majestic magistrate over all of creation?

It's delusional for you to claim that someone criticizing your god is
necessarily placing themselves in the position of majestic magistrate
over all of creation. Are you sure you shouldn't be in some kind of
cult where questioning the Leader is forbidden?

>1 Cor 4:5  Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come,
>who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will
>make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have
>praise of God.

How long do you plan on waiting for this to happen?

>There is more than you, Vincent.
>
>Believe it, it is the truth.

I agree that there's more than me. What I don't understand is why you
think I'm claiming anything else. Straw man, perhaps?