On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 15:17:14 -0700, "Andrew"
<andrew.321.remov@usa.net> wrote:

>"Vincent Maycock" wrote in message news:q0709j5rrn8aj7t2d2s44stoo8p2pjj7b0@4ax.com...
>
>> At the very least, the Bible portrays God as being really powerful; so
>> we don't necessarily have to even mention the idea of omnipotence
>> when investigating all the suffering around us and asking why God
>> would allow it, if he existed.
>
>The suffering, sorrow, pain and death in this realm are all temporary.

What are they doing here at all, temporary or not?

On 12/07/2024 8:43 am, Baxter wrote:
> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in news:v6pi30
> $2knpg$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 12/07/2024 3:37 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Huh?
>>>
>>> What I posted above was satire.
>>>
>>> The Bible is just contradictory
>>> and nonsensical gobbledy-gook invented
>>> by illiterate goat herders to explain
>>> what they didn't know.

In the Name of Jesus wrote:
>> You don't get it, Mitchell.
>>
>> You use the bible (e.g., your nonsensical gobbledy-gook) as your
>> argument and reference for your truth.
>>
>> You are the greatest bible believing, non-bible believing, atheist I
>> know. :-).

Baxter wrote:
> Michaelmclean, what YOU don't get is he's using YOUR "inerrant" source
> against you.

I know what he is up to, Baxter; I've known Mitchell for years.

But you haven't understood what was said.

I know, you think you understand everything about me (join the club),
but you don't.

You can't use what you call a fallacy as the argument of truth. Our
Mitchell, as he always does in his ignorance, calls the bible a lie and
at the same time he is using it as a reference for his truth. It breaks
the law of non-contradiction.

Now read again what I wrote.

You cannot be sitting down and standing up at the same time, but maybe
you and Mitchell can? :-). You'd have to be entirely self-created for
that, though. :-).

In the Name of Jesus

--
God is God in all His Being. All the glory is His, for He is all glory.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that a sinner could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

What does a fool do? A fool looks for a "nothing" in a "something" in
order to explain the existence of existence.

"Unless you do all because He is who He is, all your religion is in vain."

"Every man is subject to God; He judges every man, and He is reality.
 What a gift in a fallen world!"

"Love MUST be a choice or it is nothing but a law!"

"Why were all men born sinners? So that God could reveal Himself, so
that we would behold the glory of God, and that we should bring forth
the glory of God"

"God does not and will not arbitrate for any man to love Him! If God
isn't everything to you, He is nothing to you where the rubber meets the
road."

"It is the unforgivable sin not to love God with all your heart, soul,
and mind. What do you have that is lasting? It is not so much being
punished; it is what you are left with."

"Love isn't worth anything without first a free will choice for God to
birth it in a man."

"The point of salvation: desperation. Anything less than that is
self-righteousness."

"A sinner is not a believer in God; a sinner is a believer in sin."

"A piece of dirt is not the promised land; that is only a reflection.
The promised land is knowing Me, says the Lord."

"It is all about God or it is all about idolatry."

"The Lord Jesus is coming soon. He has always come soon."

"There is no revolving door of self-worship in a son of God's life!"

"There is no such thing as random!"

"You can't truly love without it being with all your heart."

"No one can see God without their whole heart. Unless you can see God,
you know nothing."

"You can't learn God, God has to reveal Himself to you."

"No sinner is sinless in any way."

"Only God is life; only the Kingdom of God of His "Nature" is life."

"What you believe is just a leaning on your own understanding; faith is
a leaning on the one you have chosen to trust."

"God uses the "letter" to crucify a man and raise him from the dead."

"Not fearing God is sheer stupidity for sinners."

"Self-righteousness is any exclusion of God in your heart, because any
exclusion reveals that you think more about yourself than what you
really are."

"Atheism: "The claim that life received from itself."

"But remember this: always, absolutely always, all the glory is the
Lord's and His alone, and anyone who takes any credit for anything, you
know, instantly, he is not what he pretends to be and is a false prophet."

"That light had to bear (bears all things) the darkness for us, but that
light did not ever become darkness."

"You must reach beyond the bible that tells you about Him, and into your
daily life to find Him in Person. He's there."

"What is wrong with Christendom? False understanding based on compromise."

"It is not in man to love his enemies. And if he tries, he is walking in
a lie and trying to raise himself up to the level of God."

In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
news:v6pr59$2knpf$4@dont-email.me:

> On 12/07/2024 8:43 am, Baxter wrote:
>> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
>> news:v6pi30 $2knpg$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 12/07/2024 3:37 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Huh?
>>>>
>>>> What I posted above was satire.
>>>>
>>>> The Bible is just contradictory
>>>> and nonsensical gobbledy-gook invented
>>>> by illiterate goat herders to explain
>>>> what they didn't know.
>
> In the Name of Jesus wrote:
>>> You don't get it, Mitchell.
>>>
>>> You use the bible (e.g., your nonsensical gobbledy-gook) as your
>>> argument and reference for your truth.
>>>
>>> You are the greatest bible believing, non-bible believing, atheist I
>>> know. :-).
>
> Baxter wrote:
>> Michaelmclean, what YOU don't get is he's using YOUR "inerrant"
>> source against you.
>
> I know what he is up to, Baxter; I've known Mitchell for years.
>
> But you haven't understood what was said.
>
> I know, you think you understand everything about me (join the club),
> but you don't.
>
> You can't use what you call a fallacy as the argument of truth.

Truth isn't the issue when the
Bible clearly contradicts itself. The
fact you cannot explain the contradictions
is your problem, not mine.

In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in news:v6pi30
$2knpg$1@dont-email.me:

> On 12/07/2024 3:37 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
news:v6onj4
>> $2g188$8@dont-email.me:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:XnsB1AB7F2475B95629555@185.151.15.160...
>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>>> news:v6m78d$1v0jr$8@dont-email.me:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:XnsB1AA828AE711629555@185.151.15.190...
>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>>>>> news:v6jl2l $1ebn2$20@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:XnsB1A9D7EAF3E86629555@185.151.15.190...
>>>>>>>> Sam <samt@samt.invalid> wrote in news:lf3kckFcicnU1
>>>>>> @mid.individual.net:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 9 Jul 2024 11:37:20 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>>>>>>>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sure, if we all walked in truth.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In the Name of Jesus
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> LOL! That is quite the babbling signature you have. It seems to
>>>>>>>>> say, "Hate people that do not believe as I do!"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That IS what the Bible requires..............
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Death to Followers of Other Religions
>>>>>>>> (Exodus 22:19)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kill Nonbelievers
>>>>>>>> (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kill Followers of Other Religions.
>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You mean the bible written by PEOPLE?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "God's Holy Word"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Divinely Inspired"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Holy Writ"
>>>>>
>>>>> So written by people.. possibly even delusional people, and that's
>>>>> suppose to be accepted blindly and without question?
>>>>>
>>>>> What about when the Bible contradicts itself.. how are we suppose
to
>>>>> take that if we can't accept that the authors are flawed human
beings
>>>>> and thus the Bible is imperfect?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Take that up with Pastor Hartung, he
>>>> runs away every time I ask him these sorts
>>>> of questions.
>>>
>>> I'm taking it up with YOU.. you're the one claiming the Bible has to
be
>>> blindly obeyed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Huh?
>>
>> What I posted above was satire.
>>
>> The Bible is just contradictory
>> and nonsensical gobbledy-gook invented
>> by illiterate goat herders to explain
>> what they didn't know.
>
> You don't get it, Mitchell.
>
> You use the bible (e.g., your nonsensical gobbledy-gook) as your
> argument and reference for your truth.
>
> You are the greatest bible believing, non-bible believing, atheist I
> know. :-).

The first step toward atheism
is actually READING the Bible.

Atheists Know More about Religion than Christians

Today the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life
released the results of a new "religious knowledge"
survey that came to a discouraging � but not unexpected
result. It discovered that, on average, atheists and
agnostics are more knowledgeable about religion than
believers.

Why do atheists and agnostics tend to know more about
religion than devout religious people? Alan Cooperman,
associate director for research at the Pew Forum,
explained that non-believers typically grew up in a
religious tradition and gave it up on purpose � after
a period of reflection, study, and conscious decision-
making. "These are people who thought a lot about
religion," he told the L.A. Times. "They�re not
indifferent. They care about it."

On the other hand, many Christians come to faith and
then stop searching. The L.A. Times story also quotes
Methodist minister Adam Hamilton, author of When
Christians Get It Wrong, who said, "I think that what
happens for many Christians is, they accept their
particular faith, they accept it to be true and they
stop examining it. Consequently, because it�s already
accepted to be true, they don�t examine other people�s
faiths. That, I think is not healthy for a person of
any faith."
http://tinyurl.com/29vob3y

"Vincent Maycock" wrote in message news:3hr09jhr1nob645n6c0qv68fmi915e42k2@4ax.com...
> "Andrew" wrote:
>>"Vincent Maycock" wrote:
>>
>>> At the very least, the Bible portrays God as being really powerful; so
>>> we don't necessarily have to even mention the idea of omnipotence
>>> when investigating all the suffering around us and asking why God
>>> would allow it, if he existed.
>>
>>The suffering, sorrow, pain and death in this realm are all temporary.
>
> What are they doing here at all, temporary or not?

You should know by now. And if you don't,
it indicates you probably don't want to know.

On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 20:22:58 -0700, "Andrew"
<andrew.321.remov@usa.net> wrote:

>"Vincent Maycock" wrote in message news:3hr09jhr1nob645n6c0qv68fmi915e42k2@4ax.com...
>> "Andrew" wrote:
>>>"Vincent Maycock" wrote:
>>>
>>>> At the very least, the Bible portrays God as being really powerful; so
>>>> we don't necessarily have to even mention the idea of omnipotence
>>>> when investigating all the suffering around us and asking why God
>>>> would allow it, if he existed.
>>>
>>>The suffering, sorrow, pain and death in this realm are all temporary.
>>
>> What are they doing here at all, temporary or not?
>
>You should know by now. And if you don't,
>it indicates you probably don't want to know.

The standard Christian explanation is that suffering results
necessarily from our freedom to choose. So we bring suffering on
ourselves when we make wrong choices instead of following God.

The problem with this is that some suffering isn't our fault, so the
standard explanation fails to explain that kind of commonplace
suffering.

Scout wrote:

> No, technically Atheism is a religion. If they were actually true with
> themselves they would be some form of agnostic.

Who knows why it's so difficult for you christers to
grasp the meaning of "atheist".

While you're at it, look up "agnostic" too.

The dictionary is your friend.

On 12/07/2024 11:50 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
> news:v6pr59$2knpf$4@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 12/07/2024 8:43 am, Baxter wrote:
>>> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
>>> news:v6pi30 $2knpg$1@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> On 12/07/2024 3:37 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Huh?
>>>>>
>>>>> What I posted above was satire.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Bible is just contradictory
>>>>> and nonsensical gobbledy-gook invented
>>>>> by illiterate goat herders to explain
>>>>> what they didn't know.
>>
>> In the Name of Jesus wrote:
>>>> You don't get it, Mitchell.
>>>>
>>>> You use the bible (e.g., your nonsensical gobbledy-gook) as your
>>>> argument and reference for your truth.
>>>>
>>>> You are the greatest bible believing, non-bible believing, atheist I
>>>> know. :-).
>>
>> Baxter wrote:
>>> Michaelmclean, what YOU don't get is he's using YOUR "inerrant"
>>> source against you.
>>
>> I know what he is up to, Baxter; I've known Mitchell for years.
>>
>> But you haven't understood what was said.
>>
>> I know, you think you understand everything about me (join the club),
>> but you don't.
>>
>> You can't use what you call a fallacy as the argument of truth.
>
>
> Truth isn't the issue

Truth is always the issue.

> when the
> Bible clearly contradicts itself. The
> fact you cannot explain the contradictions
> is your problem, not mine.

You are the contradiction, Mitchell; that's the point.

You have your feet firmly fixed in midair. You can seemingly get away
with it now in a sea of ignorance, but not later.

You have been offered truth numerous times, so you won't be able to
complain.

In the Name of Jesus

--
God is God in all His Being. All the glory is His, for He is all glory.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that a sinner could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

What does a fool do? A fool looks for a "nothing" in a "something" in
order to explain the existence of existence.

"Unless you do all because He is who He is, all your religion is in vain."

"Every man is subject to God; He judges every man, and He is reality.
 What a gift in a fallen world!"

"Love MUST be a choice or it is nothing but a law!"

"Why were all men born sinners? So that God could reveal Himself, so
that we would behold the glory of God, and that we should bring forth
the glory of God"

"God does not and will not arbitrate for any man to love Him! If God
isn't everything to you, He is nothing to you where the rubber meets the
road."

"It is the unforgivable sin not to love God with all your heart, soul,
and mind. What do you have that is lasting? It is not so much being
punished; it is what you are left with."

"Love isn't worth anything without first a free will choice for God to
birth it in a man."

"The point of salvation: desperation. Anything less than that is
self-righteousness."

"A sinner is not a believer in God; a sinner is a believer in sin."

"A piece of dirt is not the promised land; that is only a reflection.
The promised land is knowing Me, says the Lord."

"It is all about God or it is all about idolatry."

"The Lord Jesus is coming soon. He has always come soon."

"There is no revolving door of self-worship in a son of God's life!"

"There is no such thing as random!"

"You can't truly love without it being with all your heart."

"No one can see God without their whole heart. Unless you can see God,
you know nothing."

"You can't learn God, God has to reveal Himself to you."

"No sinner is sinless in any way."

"Only God is life; only the Kingdom of God of His "Nature" is life."

"What you believe is just a leaning on your own understanding; faith is
a leaning on the one you have chosen to trust."

"God uses the "letter" to crucify a man and raise him from the dead."

"Not fearing God is sheer stupidity for sinners."

"Self-righteousness is any exclusion of God in your heart, because any
exclusion reveals that you think more about yourself than what you
really are."

"Atheism: "The claim that life received from itself."

"But remember this: always, absolutely always, all the glory is the
Lord's and His alone, and anyone who takes any credit for anything, you
know, instantly, he is not what he pretends to be and is a false prophet."

Vincent Maycock <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in
news:nqa19jtt7jpo1e9fphpti76r84nclhk9ar@4ax.com:

> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 20:22:58 -0700, "Andrew"
> <andrew.321.remov@usa.net> wrote:
>
>>"Vincent Maycock" wrote in message
>>news:3hr09jhr1nob645n6c0qv68fmi915e42k2@4ax.com...
>>> "Andrew" wrote:
>>>>"Vincent Maycock" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> At the very least, the Bible portrays God as being really
>>>>> powerful; so we don't necessarily have to even mention the idea
>>>>> of omnipotence when investigating all the suffering around us and
>>>>> asking why God would allow it, if he existed.
>>>>
>>>>The suffering, sorrow, pain and death in this realm are all
>>>>temporary.
>>>
>>> What are they doing here at all, temporary or not?
>>
>>You should know by now. And if you don't,
>>it indicates you probably don't want to know.
>
> The standard Christian explanation is that suffering results
> necessarily from our freedom to choose. So we bring suffering on
> ourselves when we make wrong choices instead of following God.
>
> The problem with this is that some suffering isn't our fault, so the
> standard explanation fails to explain that kind of commonplace
> suffering.
>
>

Actually, Adam and Eve sinned so now EVERYBODY forever and ever has to
suffer.

[Default] Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> typed:

>Vincent Maycock <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:nqa19jtt7jpo1e9fphpti76r84nclhk9ar@4ax.com:
>
>> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 20:22:58 -0700, "Andrew"
>> <andrew.321.remov@usa.net> wrote:
>>
>>>"Vincent Maycock" wrote in message
>>>news:3hr09jhr1nob645n6c0qv68fmi915e42k2@4ax.com...
>>>> "Andrew" wrote:
>>>>>"Vincent Maycock" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> At the very least, the Bible portrays God as being really
>>>>>> powerful; so we don't necessarily have to even mention the idea
>>>>>> of omnipotence when investigating all the suffering around us and
>>>>>> asking why God would allow it, if he existed.
>>>>>
>>>>>The suffering, sorrow, pain and death in this realm are all
>>>>>temporary.
>>>>
>>>> What are they doing here at all, temporary or not?
>>>
>>>You should know by now. And if you don't,
>>>it indicates you probably don't want to know.
>>
>> The standard Christian explanation is that suffering results
>> necessarily from our freedom to choose. So we bring suffering on
>> ourselves when we make wrong choices instead of following God.
>>
>> The problem with this is that some suffering isn't our fault, so the
>> standard explanation fails to explain that kind of commonplace
>> suffering.
>>
>>
>
>Actually, Adam and Eve sinned so now EVERYBODY forever and ever has to
>suffer.

Admitted Pedophile Groomer Baxter reveals his complete ignorance of
the concepts of Christianity.

In article <g0g09jdstkdabf9jmfrirouffi8hn82f32@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...
>
> Scout wrote:
> > "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
> > > "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in news:v6jl2r
> > >> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
> ...
> > >>> Isn't it fun watching Fox News cringe
> > >>> while reporting on the latest job creation
> > >>
> > >> US Unemployment Rate (I:USUR)
> > >> US Unemployment Rate is at 4.10%, compared to 4.00% last month and
> > > 3.60%
> > >> last year.
>
> Unemployment rates under 4.5% are unsustainably low, and
> are inflationary.
>
> > > Biden brought the Trump 6.4% rate
> > > down to 3.6% and you are complaining?
> >
> > Average Yearly Inflation Rate by President
> > An average of the year-over-year inflation rate for all months of each
> > presidential term.
> > Trump 2017 - 2021 1.9%
> > Biden 2021 - 5.7%
> >
> > https://www.investopedia.com/us-inflation-rate-by-president-8546447
>
> The post-covid inflation was caused mainly by Trump
> deficit spending. Trump ran up the national debt more
> than in any other term in history.
>
> 1. What did Bidin do that caused inflation?
> 2. What did Trump do that reduced inflation?
>
> Answers: 1. nothing, and 2. only this: Trump appointed
> Powell as Fed chairman (then quickly started attacking
> him). Powell hiked interest rates around 5% in response
> to inflation. In normal times this would have caused a
> recession. It didn't... no rate cuts yet, and the
> economy is roaring. Bidenomics, right?
>
> You must not know that the CPI inflation numbers for June
> came out today. Prices went *down* last month by 0.1%,
> which is an annual rate of -1.2%. That's *negative*
> inflation. Core inflation (excluding food & energy) went
> up 0.2%, or about +2.4% annually.
>
> Now tell us who gets the credit for that.
>
> > Yea, I am complaining that Biden has an inflation rate 300% higher than
> > Trump's so far.
>
> That's a gift from Trump, not Biden.

Yet all the shit started when Joe took office.

In article <51i09j1pt4crst3shqs0b19rm73hu29495@4ax.com>,
twang@the.noodle says...
>
> Scout wrote:
>
> > Further let's dig a bit deeper into the job market and see what's really
> > going on.
> >
> > The Biden administration has turned the U.S. labor market into a temporary
> > employment agency for foreigners, leaving American workers behind, and the
> > administration's own data prove it. Yet instead of acknowledging this
> > failure, the White house is taking victory laps on a few cherry-picked
> > numbers.
> >
> > The May job report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) showed a
> > headline number of 272,000 payrolls added, and cheerleaders for the Biden
>
> <...>
>
> > https://www.heritage.org/jobs-and-labor/commentary/the-job-market-looks-good-only-if-you-ignore-whats-really-going
>
> Seriously?!? You're getting your news from the Heritage
> Foundation? No wonder you are so confused.
>
> I'm sorry you are having so much trouble finding a job.
> Don't give up.

Who are you to determine which sites are real?

"Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
news:XnsB1ACD302F7884629555@185.151.15.190...
> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
> news:v6pr59$2knpf$4@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 12/07/2024 8:43 am, Baxter wrote:
>>> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
>>> news:v6pi30 $2knpg$1@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> On 12/07/2024 3:37 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Huh?
>>>>>
>>>>> What I posted above was satire.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Bible is just contradictory
>>>>> and nonsensical gobbledy-gook invented
>>>>> by illiterate goat herders to explain
>>>>> what they didn't know.
>>
>> In the Name of Jesus wrote:
>>>> You don't get it, Mitchell.
>>>>
>>>> You use the bible (e.g., your nonsensical gobbledy-gook) as your
>>>> argument and reference for your truth.
>>>>
>>>> You are the greatest bible believing, non-bible believing, atheist I
>>>> know. :-).
>>
>> Baxter wrote:
>>> Michaelmclean, what YOU don't get is he's using YOUR "inerrant"
>>> source against you.
>>
>> I know what he is up to, Baxter; I've known Mitchell for years.
>>
>> But you haven't understood what was said.
>>
>> I know, you think you understand everything about me (join the club),
>> but you don't.
>>
>> You can't use what you call a fallacy as the argument of truth.
>
>
> Truth isn't the issue when the
> Bible clearly contradicts itself. The
> fact you cannot explain the contradictions
> is your problem, not mine.

The explanation seems easy enough to me... it was written by humans.

After all, you can have 20 people witness the same event.. and each will
recall it slightly differently, even contradict each other.
Is the flaw in what occurred.. or the witnesses?

All you've shown is that the humans who wrote the Bible were human.

"Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
news:XnsB1ACD38BC1AB7629555@185.151.15.190...
> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in news:v6pi30
> $2knpg$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 12/07/2024 3:37 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> news:v6onj4
>>> $2g188$8@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:XnsB1AB7F2475B95629555@185.151.15.160...
>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>>>> news:v6m78d$1v0jr$8@dont-email.me:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:XnsB1AA828AE711629555@185.151.15.190...
>>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:v6jl2l $1ebn2$20@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:XnsB1A9D7EAF3E86629555@185.151.15.190...
>>>>>>>>> Sam <samt@samt.invalid> wrote in news:lf3kckFcicnU1
>>>>>>> @mid.individual.net:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 9 Jul 2024 11:37:20 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>>>>>>>>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sure, if we all walked in truth.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In the Name of Jesus
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> LOL! That is quite the babbling signature you have. It seems to
>>>>>>>>>> say, "Hate people that do not believe as I do!"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That IS what the Bible requires..............
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Death to Followers of Other Religions
>>>>>>>>> (Exodus 22:19)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Kill Nonbelievers
>>>>>>>>> (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
>>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Kill Followers of Other Religions.
>>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You mean the bible written by PEOPLE?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "God's Holy Word"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Divinely Inspired"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Holy Writ"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So written by people.. possibly even delusional people, and that's
>>>>>> suppose to be accepted blindly and without question?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What about when the Bible contradicts itself.. how are we suppose
> to
>>>>>> take that if we can't accept that the authors are flawed human
> beings
>>>>>> and thus the Bible is imperfect?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Take that up with Pastor Hartung, he
>>>>> runs away every time I ask him these sorts
>>>>> of questions.
>>>>
>>>> I'm taking it up with YOU.. you're the one claiming the Bible has to
> be
>>>> blindly obeyed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Huh?
>>>
>>> What I posted above was satire.
>>>
>>> The Bible is just contradictory
>>> and nonsensical gobbledy-gook invented
>>> by illiterate goat herders to explain
>>> what they didn't know.
>>
>> You don't get it, Mitchell.
>>
>> You use the bible (e.g., your nonsensical gobbledy-gook) as your
>> argument and reference for your truth.
>>
>> You are the greatest bible believing, non-bible believing, atheist I
>> know. :-).
>
>
>
> The first step toward atheism
> is actually READING the Bible.

Ok, I'll bite.. How does reading the bible establish that Gods do not, can
not, and have never existed....

I mean I can see where you might have doubts, and become agnostic.. but to
flip to the total denial seems unfounded.... After all, what would an ant
make of us? What makes you think an intelligence as much above us as we are
above an ant simply could not exist?

So let me try your own argument. Prove that God doesn't exist.

I mean as an atheist you must have proof for your convictions or by what
seems to be your standards you're wrong.

Which, BTW is why I'm an agnostic.. I realize that nether I nor even the
entire human race have the answers to everything.

On Fri, 12 Jul 2024 14:44:48 -0000 (UTC), Baxter
<bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> wrote:

>Vincent Maycock <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:nqa19jtt7jpo1e9fphpti76r84nclhk9ar@4ax.com:
>
>> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 20:22:58 -0700, "Andrew"
>> <andrew.321.remov@usa.net> wrote:
>>
>>>"Vincent Maycock" wrote in message
>>>news:3hr09jhr1nob645n6c0qv68fmi915e42k2@4ax.com...
>>>> "Andrew" wrote:
>>>>>"Vincent Maycock" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> At the very least, the Bible portrays God as being really
>>>>>> powerful; so we don't necessarily have to even mention the idea
>>>>>> of omnipotence when investigating all the suffering around us and
>>>>>> asking why God would allow it, if he existed.
>>>>>
>>>>>The suffering, sorrow, pain and death in this realm are all
>>>>>temporary.
>>>>
>>>> What are they doing here at all, temporary or not?
>>>
>>>You should know by now. And if you don't,
>>>it indicates you probably don't want to know.
>>
>> The standard Christian explanation is that suffering results
>> necessarily from our freedom to choose. So we bring suffering on
>> ourselves when we make wrong choices instead of following God.
>>
>> The problem with this is that some suffering isn't our fault, so the
>> standard explanation fails to explain that kind of commonplace
>> suffering.
>>
>>
>
>Actually, Adam and Eve sinned so now EVERYBODY forever and ever has to
>suffer.

And why should we have to suffer for something *they* did?

"Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:q0709j5rrn8aj7t2d2s44stoo8p2pjj7b0@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 13:18:58 -0400, "Scout"
> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:rq109jtkr3flolmv3n7luc2cugdmfc3vt6@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 09:13:14 -0400, "Scout"
>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:h28u8j98e8hm2gq7c61djiqbdeqvb0mbs9@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Wed, 10 Jul 2024 10:08:56 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Seems like it. It's just a different faith.. I mean they even have
>>>>>>their
>>>>>>own
>>>>>>churches. So either they are lying about their lack of faith or they
>>>>>>are
>>>>>>committing tax evasion and should go to jail.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even the hardened Kevrob atheist admitted he leaves the door ever so
>>>>>>> slightly open, which was honest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>True, you have to give him that. I tend to be more of an agnostic type
>>>>>>of
>>>>>>person. I would acknowledge the possibility of one or more entities
>>>>>>which
>>>>>>would be god like, but currently we have no true evidence of such
>>>>>>being(s).
>>>>>
>>>>> We don't currently have any true evidence of the existence of pink
>>>>> garden unicorns. Are you agnostic about their existence?
>>>>
>>>>Yep. If you believe in them and it makes you happy, and doesn't harm
>>>>anyone
>>>>else. Go for it.
>>>>After all, in all the Universe there well could be something we might
>>>>call
>>>>a
>>>>pink garden unicorn.. or there could not.
>>>>
>>>>With up to 2 trillion galaxies in the universe that we know of or
>>>>suspect,
>>>>and each galaxy having about 100 Billion stars be galaxy, and if we
>>>>assume
>>>>1.6 planets per star.. and then if we assume only 0.1% of those are
>>>>habitable, and only 0.1% of those are inhabited.. That leaves a LOT of
>>>>room
>>>>for a pink garden unicorn to exist or not.
>>>
>>> What about the Keebler Elves? Could *they* be lurking in a tree near
>>> you?
>>
>>Lame evasion.
>
> How so?

Because your line of questioning as already failed.

>
>>>>>>However, if our thoughts about the size of the Universe is anywhere
>>>>>>close
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>being true, and the time that the Universe is thought to have
>>>>>>existed..
>>>>>>there could be entities that are as far above us, as we are above
>>>>>>ants.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it possible, in your opinion, to rule out the existence of certain
>>>>> *types* of gods?
>>>>
>>>>Depends on what type you're talking about.
>>>>
>>>>> For example we know there can be no omnipotent omni-
>>>>> benevolent god of the Christian sort out there
>>>>
>>>>Depends are you talking true omnipotence or something so far in advance
>>>>of
>>>>our civilization at the point of contact to appear so?
>>>
>>> Either one.
>>
>>Then I would put it that a civilization advanced enough to easily travel
>>between the stars would appear damn near omnipotent to the people 2000
>>years
>>ago.
>
> True. What's your point?

That you just agreed with me, thus establishing my point made that you can't
possibly know what you asserted you did above.

>>>>Further, from my readings God is not omni-benevolent, in fact in some
>>>>ways
>>>>God seems quite selfish, particularly when it comes worship.
>>>>See Exodus 20:3-5/6 depending on which version you use.
>>>>
>>>>Of course that is somewhat contradicted by claims there are no other
>>>>Gods
>>>>while at the same time declaring there shall be no Gods before him.
>>>>
>>>>So, yea, there is a lot of wiggle room there. I certainly know of no
>>>>claim
>>>>of omnipotence or omni-benevolence from the Biblical God.
>>>>I mean he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for a rather petty reason by a
>>>>few
>>>>of
>>>>the people who lived there. Hardly seems omni-benevolent to me.
>>>>I mean consider endless eternal damnation for limited and very finite
>>>>offenses... Does that sound like being omni-benevolent?
>>>>Yes, the Bible is full of such contradictions within itself and within
>>>>religions teachings of it.
>>>>Now perhaps in God's view his is both.. but from ours, not so much.
>>>
>>> Note:
>>>
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zf626yc/revision/1
>>>
>>> So you're saying if the Christian god exists, he must be evil?
>>
>>Would depend on your point of view, wouldn't it?
>
> What would prevent God from sharing this rather important information
> with us about human suffering from his point of view?

Lack of understanding? Knowledge you would never understand it at your age
of development.

I mean do you explain to a 9 month old baby why you are going to stab them
with a sharp object, or do you do so because you know it's for the good of
the baby?

I mean you could try to explain it.. but realizing it's futile to do so, who
would bother?

>>Even benevolence can seem like utter cruelty to the ill informed and visa
>>verse.
>
> So is this the "best of all possible worlds," in your view?

Hardly, but it could be better than it might have been otherwise.. See above
about the baby receiving a shot.

>>> I
>>> wouldn't quarrel with that -- but since Christians are generally
>>> unwilling to agree with a statement like that, I generally phrase it
>>> as "the Christian god does not exist."
>>
>>Well, first we would have to establish exactly what the term "Christian
>>god"
>>means and exactly how that is supported. In a discussion like that
>>precise
>>and specific meaning would need to be determined and supported. Not just
>>from the view of the people saying it but also what they can support as
>>being directly referenced. I mean it's nice to say God is omnipotent, but
>>did God ever state that and to what if any limits, either inherent or self
>>imposed.
>
> At the very least, the Bible portrays God as being really powerful;

Agreed and given the civilization at the time, that wouldn't be that hard to
do. Heck we could probably do at least some of that today if we wanted to.

> so
> we don't necessarily have to even mention the idea of omnipotence

Well since we are the ones that asserted omnipotence... it would be our
error.

> when investigating all the suffering around us and asking why God
> would allow it, if he existed.

Reference the baby above. Do you crawl on your hands and knees because
otherwise you might have to suffer learning to walk?
Do you refuse to swim because you might suffer some learning how to do so?

Nope, if you had your way, we could neither feed ourselves, move ourselves
or even care for ourselves.. the "benevolent god" would have to care and
provide for us every moment of every day, and prevent us from doing or
seeking anything else.

No, suffering is sometimes necessary to growth. To suggest none should exist
is to deny growth, change, advancement.... which hardly sounds like
something a benevolent God would do.

Really? You need to try to think these things through for yourself.. as it
is you're just looking like a fool.

"Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3hr09jhr1nob645n6c0qv68fmi915e42k2@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 15:17:14 -0700, "Andrew"
> <andrew.321.remov@usa.net> wrote:
>
>>"Vincent Maycock" wrote in message
>>news:q0709j5rrn8aj7t2d2s44stoo8p2pjj7b0@4ax.com...
>>
>>> At the very least, the Bible portrays God as being really powerful; so
>>> we don't necessarily have to even mention the idea of omnipotence
>>> when investigating all the suffering around us and asking why God
>>> would allow it, if he existed.
>>
>>The suffering, sorrow, pain and death in this realm are all temporary.
>
> What are they doing here at all, temporary or not?

Necessary to growth, development and self dependency.

"Andrew" <andrew.321.remov@usa.net> wrote in message
news:gk1kO.101169$z5D2.95716@fx12.ams4...
> "Vincent Maycock" wrote in message
> news:3hr09jhr1nob645n6c0qv68fmi915e42k2@4ax.com...
>> "Andrew" wrote:
>>>"Vincent Maycock" wrote:
>>>> At the very least, the Bible portrays God as being really powerful; so
>>>> we don't necessarily have to even mention the idea of omnipotence
>>>> when investigating all the suffering around us and asking why God
>>>> would allow it, if he existed.
>>>
>>>The suffering, sorrow, pain and death in this realm are all temporary.
>>
>> What are they doing here at all, temporary or not?
>
> You should know by now. And if you don't,
> it indicates you probably don't want to know.

Certainly shows he's not giving any consideration to the issue before even
posting his questions, or it would tend to be self evident why suffering
exist. Suffering can be beneficial.. for an individual, a society and a
race.

"Vincent Maycock" <maycock@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:nqa19jtt7jpo1e9fphpti76r84nclhk9ar@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 20:22:58 -0700, "Andrew"
> <andrew.321.remov@usa.net> wrote:
>
>>"Vincent Maycock" wrote in message
>>news:3hr09jhr1nob645n6c0qv68fmi915e42k2@4ax.com...
>>> "Andrew" wrote:
>>>>"Vincent Maycock" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> At the very least, the Bible portrays God as being really powerful; so
>>>>> we don't necessarily have to even mention the idea of omnipotence
>>>>> when investigating all the suffering around us and asking why God
>>>>> would allow it, if he existed.
>>>>
>>>>The suffering, sorrow, pain and death in this realm are all temporary.
>>>
>>> What are they doing here at all, temporary or not?
>>
>>You should know by now. And if you don't,
>>it indicates you probably don't want to know.
>
> The standard Christian explanation is that suffering results
> necessarily from our freedom to choose. So we bring suffering on
> ourselves when we make wrong choices instead of following God.
>
> The problem with this is that some suffering isn't our fault, so the
> standard explanation fails to explain that kind of commonplace
> suffering.

and common place suffering can be necessary to growth. The suffering of
learning to walk. The suffering of falling down. The suffering of hurting
yourself when you do something stupid. Yep, even commonplace suffering can
have benevolence behind it... for it produces growth, advancement, skills,
achievement, etc.

"Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
news:XnsB1AC83E8F64DA629555@185.151.15.190...
> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> news:v6onj7$2g188$13@dont-email.me:
>
>>
>>
>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:XnsB1AB814D77A8E629555@185.151.15.160...
>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>> news:v6m78m $1v0jr$20@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:XnsB1AA83C20B73C629555@185.151.15.160...
>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>> news:v6jl2r
>>>>> $1ebn2$28@dont-email.me:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:XnsB1A9D16A65FE629555@185.151.15.160...
>>>>>>> Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> wrote in news:v6htj8$12l5j$3
>>>>> @dont-
>>>>>>> email.me:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:668c3812$0$1895503$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In article <XnsB1A98B6E059CF629555@185.151.15.190>,
>>> noemail@aol.com
>>>>>>>>> says...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> news:668c2930$0$1895499$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > In article <XnsB1A97F3606ECE629555@185.151.15.190>,
>>>>> noemail@aol.com
>>>>>>>>>> > says...
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> >> news:668becab$0$2422120 $882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com:
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> > In article <XnsB1A8D17FD1299629555@185.151.15.160>,
>>>>>>>>>> >> > noemail@aol.com says...
>>>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> news:668b191e$0$3620720$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com:
>>>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > In article <v6f2io$gjqe$1@dont-email.me>, bax02
>>>>>>>>>> >> _spamblock@baxcode.com
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > says...
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> Watson Herbusch <paid@x.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> news:v6etbq$42s$5@toxic.dizum.net:
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> > On 07 Jul 2024, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> > Doctor) posted some
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> > news:v6e2ig$4fj$5@gallifrey.nk.ca:
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >> In article <X_viO.61872$C9He.19099@fx15.ams4>,
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >> Andrew <andrew.321.remov@usa.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>One becomes an atheist when they do not
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>want God in their life. Not because there
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>is no evidence for God.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>Because evidence for our most awesome
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>Creator is there in the very *creation* that
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>He made;
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>And is evident for ~anyone~ who wants to
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>know.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >> Atheist science is a contradiction.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> > Atheism is a religion.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> Nope.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> =========
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> Atheism is not a belief system nor is it a religion.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> While there are some religions that are atheistic
>>> (certain
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> sects of Buddhism, for example), that does not mean
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> that atheism is a religion. To put it in a more
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> humorous way:
>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> atheism is a
>>>>>>>>>> >> religion,
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> then not collecting stamps is a hobby.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/about-
>>> atheism/
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> ============
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > It is and your cites are biased.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> Everything that proves you wrong is biased.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >> > But if I post something from Fox or RSNB or something you
>>>>> claim
>>>>>>>>>> >> > it's biased.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> Fox News ADMITS they are biased shills for Trump.
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> Off the air, Fox News stars blasted
>>>>>>>>>> >> the election fraud claims they peddled
>>>>>>>>>> >> FEBRUARY 16, 2023
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> https://www.npr.org/2023/02/16/1157558299/fox-news-stars-
>>> false-
>>>>>>> clai
>>>>>>>>>> >> ms- trump-election-2020
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > So?
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Fox lies for Trump.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They admit they lie for Trump.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Next?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> MSM and the white house has been lying about Joe for 3 years.
>>>>>>>>> Do
>>> you
>>>>>>>>> have a point to make?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They been saying tRump good, Biden bad.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Isn't it fun watching Fox News cringe
>>>>>>> while reporting on the latest job creation
>>>>>>
>>>>>> US Unemployment Rate (I:USUR)
>>>>>> US Unemployment Rate is at 4.10%, compared to 4.00% last month and
>>>>> 3.60%
>>>>>> last year.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Biden brought the Trump 6.4% rate
>>>>> down to 3.6% and you are complaining?
>>>>
>>>> Average Yearly Inflation
>>>
>>>
>>> We were talking about unemployment.
>>
>> Yea, and how many people have LEFT the job market under Biden and are
>> no longer even counted as unemployed?
>>
>
>
> Huh??
>
>
> US job gains surge past expectations,
> wage growth quickens
> June 7, 2024
> https://tinyurl.com/yjt363vs

On 7/12/2024 9:53 AM, Vincent Maycock wrote:
>> Actually, Adam and Eve sinned so now EVERYBODY forever and ever has to
>> suffer.
> And why should we have to suffer for something*they* did?

Because you live in a holographic script loaded up in a binary choice
matrix - duh.

In article <v6rhmv$332su$7@dont-email.me>,
me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net says...
> Which, BTW is why I'm an agnostic.. I realize that nether I nor even the
> entire human race have the answers to everything.
>

Smartest thing you have said so far.

In article <v6rhmv$332su$7@dont-email.me>,
me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net says...
>
> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:XnsB1ACD38BC1AB7629555@185.151.15.190...
> > In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in news:v6pi30
> > $2knpg$1@dont-email.me:
> >
> >> On 12/07/2024 3:37 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
> >>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> > news:v6onj4
> >>> $2g188$8@dont-email.me:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
> >>>> news:XnsB1AB7F2475B95629555@185.151.15.160...
> >>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> >>>>> news:v6m78d$1v0jr$8@dont-email.me:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>> news:XnsB1AA828AE711629555@185.151.15.190...
> >>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
> >>>>>>> news:v6jl2l $1ebn2$20@dont-email.me:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>> news:XnsB1A9D7EAF3E86629555@185.151.15.190...
> >>>>>>>>> Sam <samt@samt.invalid> wrote in news:lf3kckFcicnU1
> >>>>>>> @mid.individual.net:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 9 Jul 2024 11:37:20 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
> >>>>>>>>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Sure, if we all walked in truth.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> In the Name of Jesus
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> LOL! That is quite the babbling signature you have. It seems to
> >>>>>>>>>> say, "Hate people that do not believe as I do!"
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> That IS what the Bible requires..............
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Death to Followers of Other Religions
> >>>>>>>>> (Exodus 22:19)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Kill Nonbelievers
> >>>>>>>>> (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
> >>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Kill Followers of Other Religions.
> >>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> You mean the bible written by PEOPLE?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "God's Holy Word"
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "Divinely Inspired"
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "Holy Writ"
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So written by people.. possibly even delusional people, and that's
> >>>>>> suppose to be accepted blindly and without question?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What about when the Bible contradicts itself.. how are we suppose
> > to
> >>>>>> take that if we can't accept that the authors are flawed human
> > beings
> >>>>>> and thus the Bible is imperfect?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Take that up with Pastor Hartung, he
> >>>>> runs away every time I ask him these sorts
> >>>>> of questions.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm taking it up with YOU.. you're the one claiming the Bible has to
> > be
> >>>> blindly obeyed.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Huh?
> >>>
> >>> What I posted above was satire.
> >>>
> >>> The Bible is just contradictory
> >>> and nonsensical gobbledy-gook invented
> >>> by illiterate goat herders to explain
> >>> what they didn't know.
> >>
> >> You don't get it, Mitchell.
> >>
> >> You use the bible (e.g., your nonsensical gobbledy-gook) as your
> >> argument and reference for your truth.
> >>
> >> You are the greatest bible believing, non-bible believing, atheist I
> >> know. :-).
> >
> >
> >
> > The first step toward atheism
> > is actually READING the Bible.
>
> Ok, I'll bite.. How does reading the bible establish that Gods do not, can
> not, and have never existed....
>
> I mean I can see where you might have doubts, and become agnostic.. but to
> flip to the total denial seems unfounded.... After all, what would an ant
> make of us? What makes you think an intelligence as much above us as we are
> above an ant simply could not exist?
>
> So let me try your own argument. Prove that God doesn't exist.
>
> I mean as an atheist you must have proof for your convictions or by what
> seems to be your standards you're wrong.
>
> Which, BTW is why I'm an agnostic.. I realize that nether I nor even the
> entire human race have the answers to everything.
>

Disregard my last remark. I thought I was responding to Holman.

"Skeeter" <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote in message
news:66915499$1$1895499$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com...
> In article <v6rhmv$332su$7@dont-email.me>,
> me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net says...
>>
>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:XnsB1ACD38BC1AB7629555@185.151.15.190...
>> > In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
>> > news:v6pi30
>> > $2knpg$1@dont-email.me:
>> >
>> >> On 12/07/2024 3:37 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> >>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>> > news:v6onj4
>> >>> $2g188$8@dont-email.me:
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>> >>>> news:XnsB1AB7F2475B95629555@185.151.15.160...
>> >>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>> >>>>> news:v6m78d$1v0jr$8@dont-email.me:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>> >>>>>> news:XnsB1AA828AE711629555@185.151.15.190...
>> >>>>>>> "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>> >>>>>>> news:v6jl2l $1ebn2$20@dont-email.me:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
>> >>>>>>>> news:XnsB1A9D7EAF3E86629555@185.151.15.190...
>> >>>>>>>>> Sam <samt@samt.invalid> wrote in news:lf3kckFcicnU1
>> >>>>>>> @mid.individual.net:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 9 Jul 2024 11:37:20 +1000, In the Name of Jesus
>> >>>>>>>>>> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sure, if we all walked in truth.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> In the Name of Jesus
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> LOL! That is quite the babbling signature you have. It seems
>> >>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>> say, "Hate people that do not believe as I do!"
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> That IS what the Bible requires..............
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Death to Followers of Other Religions
>> >>>>>>>>> (Exodus 22:19)
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Kill Nonbelievers
>> >>>>>>>>> (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
>> >>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Kill Followers of Other Religions.
>> >>>>>>>>> (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> You mean the bible written by PEOPLE?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> "God's Holy Word"
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> "Divinely Inspired"
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> "Holy Writ"
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> So written by people.. possibly even delusional people, and that's
>> >>>>>> suppose to be accepted blindly and without question?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> What about when the Bible contradicts itself.. how are we suppose
>> > to
>> >>>>>> take that if we can't accept that the authors are flawed human
>> > beings
>> >>>>>> and thus the Bible is imperfect?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Take that up with Pastor Hartung, he
>> >>>>> runs away every time I ask him these sorts
>> >>>>> of questions.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm taking it up with YOU.. you're the one claiming the Bible has to
>> > be
>> >>>> blindly obeyed.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Huh?
>> >>>
>> >>> What I posted above was satire.
>> >>>
>> >>> The Bible is just contradictory
>> >>> and nonsensical gobbledy-gook invented
>> >>> by illiterate goat herders to explain
>> >>> what they didn't know.
>> >>
>> >> You don't get it, Mitchell.
>> >>
>> >> You use the bible (e.g., your nonsensical gobbledy-gook) as your
>> >> argument and reference for your truth.
>> >>
>> >> You are the greatest bible believing, non-bible believing, atheist I
>> >> know. :-).
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The first step toward atheism
>> > is actually READING the Bible.
>>
>> Ok, I'll bite.. How does reading the bible establish that Gods do not,
>> can
>> not, and have never existed....
>>
>> I mean I can see where you might have doubts, and become agnostic.. but
>> to
>> flip to the total denial seems unfounded.... After all, what would an ant
>> make of us? What makes you think an intelligence as much above us as we
>> are
>> above an ant simply could not exist?
>>
>> So let me try your own argument. Prove that God doesn't exist.
>>
>> I mean as an atheist you must have proof for your convictions or by what
>> seems to be your standards you're wrong.
>>
>> Which, BTW is why I'm an agnostic.. I realize that nether I nor even the
>> entire human race have the answers to everything.
>>
>
> Disregard my last remark. I thought I was responding to Holman.

I was wondering.. but no problem. :-)

"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in news:v6rhmu
$332su$6@dont-email.me:

>
>
> "Mitchell Holman" <noemail@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:XnsB1ACD302F7884629555@185.151.15.190...
>> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
>> news:v6pr59$2knpf$4@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 12/07/2024 8:43 am, Baxter wrote:
>>>> In the Name of Jesus <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com> wrote in
>>>> news:v6pi30 $2knpg$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/07/2024 3:37 am, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Huh?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I posted above was satire.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Bible is just contradictory
>>>>>> and nonsensical gobbledy-gook invented
>>>>>> by illiterate goat herders to explain
>>>>>> what they didn't know.
>>>
>>> In the Name of Jesus wrote:
>>>>> You don't get it, Mitchell.
>>>>>
>>>>> You use the bible (e.g., your nonsensical gobbledy-gook) as your
>>>>> argument and reference for your truth.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are the greatest bible believing, non-bible believing, atheist
I >>>>> know. :-).
>>>
>>> Baxter wrote:
>>>> Michaelmclean, what YOU don't get is he's using YOUR "inerrant"
>>>> source against you.
>>>
>>> I know what he is up to, Baxter; I've known Mitchell for years.
>>>
>>> But you haven't understood what was said.
>>>
>>> I know, you think you understand everything about me (join the club),
>>> but you don't.
>>>
>>> You can't use what you call a fallacy as the argument of truth.
>>
>>
>> Truth isn't the issue when the
>> Bible clearly contradicts itself. The
>> fact you cannot explain the contradictions
>> is your problem, not mine.
>
> The explanation seems easy enough to me... it was written by humans.
>
> After all, you can have 20 people witness the same event.. and each
will
> recall it slightly differently, even contradict each other.
> Is the flaw in what occurred.. or the witnesses?
>
> All you've shown is that the humans who wrote the Bible were human.

Never said otherwise.........