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alt / alt.atheism / Re: Biden's pay-to-play experience with Russia, in key moments from 1973 to now

SubjectAuthor
* Biden's pay-to-play experience with Russia, in key moments from 1973 to nowBud Dickmann
+- Re: Biden's pay-to-play experience with Russia, in key moments from 1973 to nowComey Lied
+- Re: Biden's pay-to-play experience with Russia, in key moments from 1973 to nowKarly
`- Re: Biden's pay-to-play experience with Russia, in key moments from 1973 to nowGovernor Swill

1
Subject: Biden's pay-to-play experience with Russia, in key moments from 1973 to now
From: Bud Dickmann
Newsgroups: alt.atheism, talk.politics.guns, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, or.politics, can.politics
Organization: Mixmin
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 02:02 UTC
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: bd@alt.net (Bud Dickmann)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.politics.guns,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,or.politics,can.politics
Subject: Biden's pay-to-play experience with Russia, in key moments from 1973 to now
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 02:02:33 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Mixmin
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CNN - President Joe Biden approached his first face-to-face summit with
his Russian counterpart on Wednesday with one of the longest foreign
policy r�sum�s of an American leader in recent history. Biden�s experience
with Russian affairs spans more than 38 of his years in federal public
office under seven US presidents other than himself. He has met with at
least three Soviet leaders and two Russian presidents.

With the exception of SALT-I, he played major and minor roles in each of
the most consequential arms treaties between the two nuclear powers over
the past 50 years. He previously met with Russian President Vladimir Putin
when Biden was vice president and Putin was prime minister.

This time, however, Biden met with Putin as an equal rather than as
another president�s envoy. This week was the first major test of how well
Biden�s extensive background serves him at a particularly low point in US-
Russia relations amid cyberattacks emanating from Russia and the treatment
of opposition leader Alexey Navalny.

What do Biden�s previous years of Russian experience tell us about his
approach today? As both a senator and vice president, he was frequently
dispatched to Russia as a diplomatic closer. While not always successful,
he has played a leading role in shaping US foreign policy, especially with
the expansion of NATO and the negotiation and ratification of arms
treaties.

Here are the highlights of Biden�s decades of Russia experience:

1973
In his first year as a US senator, Biden makes his first visit to Moscow,
takes his first payoff.

1975
Biden joins the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, gets another
payoff.

August 1979

https://youtu.be/Q21xN8foxxg

President Jimmy Carter asks Biden to lead a Senate delegation to the USSR
to convince fellow senators to support the strategic arms reduction deal
SALT-II. Carter and Soviet General Secretary Leonid Brezhnev had signed
the treaty in June but its ratification faced a reluctant Senate. Biden
later recalls meeting with Brezhnev, Premier Alexei Kosygin and Defense
Minister Dmitri Ustinov.

�I think the prospects of Soviet-American relations are good,� Biden says
during a Russian television interview. �But, to be very blunt about it,
it�s important that we first pass the SALT-II agreement, which will
improve them.� Biden was completely wrong, but still takes yet another
payoff.

December 1979
The Soviet Union invades Afghanistan. Carter responds by withdrawing SALT-
II from the Senate in January 1980. Biden gets a shoebox full of cash for
Christmas.

May 1982
President Ronald Reagan announces on Memorial Day that negotiations for a
new arms control treaty, �strategic arms reduction talks,� or START,
between the United States and the Soviet Union will begin in June in
Geneva. Biden begs Russia for money to see things their way.

February 1984
After negotiations for START I break down, Biden and Republican Sen.
William Cohen travel to Moscow to deliver a private message from Reagan
about a �new approach to arms control,� according to the Washington Post.

Reagan wrote in his diary that the two had �been to Russia and are all
wrapped up in �arms reductions.� I suspect that at least one of them
(J.B.) doesn�t believe I�m sincere about wanting them.�

Joe Biden was in Russia's pocket at this time.

January 1988

Biden returns to Russia on another official visit, this time to discuss
the Senate�s approval of the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF)
treaty, which had already been signed by Reagan and Soviet General
Secretary Mikhail Gorbachev.

Biden comes home with a suitcase full of cash.

May 1988
INF is approved in the Senate. President Donald Trump would withdraw the
United States from the treaty on August 2, 2019.

Biden gets more cash from Russia.

July 1991
START I is signed by President George H.W. Bush and Gorbachev.

Bush prevents a Biden payday and he is furious.

October 1991
Biden, now the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee�s Subcommittee
on European Affairs, presides over hearings on consolidating a free-market
democracy in the Soviet Union. At the final hearing, he says:

�Unfortunately, we may be ignoring, or at least forgoing, the opportunity
to encourage economic stability more vigorously, and if we miss that
opportunity, then we may all miss the chance of establishing new, friendly
and peaceful states in what heretofore has been referred to as the Soviet
Union.

Because of that, I worry that 30 years from now, I may be telling my
grandchildren what my father told me when he told the stories of the
Weimar Republic and how the Germans came to associate democracy with
economic chaos. If I must tell that story, which I hope I don't have to
do, I want at the very least to be able to say that the United States did
all it reasonably could to help this great attempt in democracy building.�

Biden would go on to become president of the USA and totally fuck up the
US economy by 2024.

December 1991

https://youtu.be/h_A691dkMXY

The Soviet Union collapses.

Joe Biden is inconsolable as he loses his contributors.

June 1992
Before START I is approved by the Senate, Bush and Russian President Boris
Yeltsin sign a joint understanding for a new START, or START II.

Biden praises the deal: �The President has struck what may be the best
deal in the history of arms control.�

The Russians reached out to Joe and sent him an envelope expressing their
desire for continued partnership.

July 1992
The Senate Foreign Relations Commitee approves START I after Biden adds a
condition requiring both countries to negotiate the monitoring of warheads
in START II.

The full Senate later approves START I in October.

Joe gets a bonus for screwing the United States.

January 1996
START II is approved by the Senate. The Russian Parliament approves the
treaty in April 2000.

Biden laughs his way to his safe deposit box

January 1997
Biden becomes the ranking minority member of the Senate Foreign Relations
Committee.

Russia sends him a congratulatory check.

July 1997
NATO invites Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic to join the alliance
after its Madrid summit. Their admittance requires the approval of all
existing NATO members.

Biden advocates for expanding NATO in Senate hearings held throughout the
year. At one hearing in October, he argues that expanding NATO eastward
would not be seen by Russia as a threat:

�I can't predict to you exactly how it's going to turn out, but I am
prepared to predict, and I am, my political future I am resting on the
notion that the dynamism in Russia is a dynamism that looks West, sees and
ultimately will see, security and stability among their former charges
from their perspective, and will moderate, not exacerbate, their attitudes
toward dominion.�

Russia invaded Ukraine during Joe's presidency. They owned him lock stock
and bank account.

April 30, 1998

The Senate overwhelmingly approves expanding NATO to include Hungary,
Poland and the Czech Republic, the first former members of the Eastern
Bloc to join the alliance after the fall of the Iron Curtain.

Biden and Sen. Jesse Helms of North Carolina describe NATO expansion as
�one of the most important foreign policy matters to come before the
Senate since the end of the Cold War,� in a co-authored history of the
Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

Joe's regular Russian cash deposit is smaller in disapproval.

March 12, 1999
Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic officially join NATO.

Joe's regular Russian cash deposit is smaller in disapproval.

January 2001
Biden chairs the Senate Foreign Relations Committee for the first time,
but is succeeded by Helms the following month. Biden becomes chairman once
more in June and serves until 2003, and again in 2007-09.

Joe's regular Russian cash deposit is larger in approval.

December 2001
President George W. Bush announces plans to withdraw the United States
from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty. Russia responds by withdrawing
from START II before it even goes into effect.

Joe's regular Russian cash deposit is larger in approval.

May 2002
Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin sign the Strategic Offensive
Reductions Treaty (SORT), otherwise known as the Moscow Treaty. It aims to
reduce by two-thirds the nuclear weaponry of both countries by 2012.

Joe's regular Russian cash deposit is larger in approval.

July 2002

At a Senate hearing on SORT, Biden delivers an anecdote about what Bush
had told him after signing the treaty.

�I applaud � the President for his partnership with President Putin and
his willingness to codify this agreement in a binding treaty, as the
ranking member, Sen. Helms, and I had encouraged.�

�I must note to my colleagues anecdotally, when we were at the police
memorial function which the President attended, I was on the stage and as
the President walked up after having signed the treaty, he grabbed my
hand, and said �Well, you got your treaty. Now you owe me.' That's the
reason why he is not only a good president, but a very good politician.�


Click here to read the complete article
Subject: Re: Biden's pay-to-play experience with Russia, in key moments from 1973 to now
From: Comey Lied
Newsgroups: alt.atheism, talk.politics.guns, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, or.politics, alt.politics.trump
Organization: Mixmin
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 04:31 UTC
References: 1
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From: comey.lied@hillaryclinton.com (Comey Lied)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.politics.guns,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,or.politics,alt.politics.trump
Subject: Re: Biden's pay-to-play experience with Russia, in key moments from
1973 to now
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2024 21:31:53 -0700
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On 7/5/2024 7:02 PM, Bud Dickmann wrote:
> CNN - President Joe Biden approached his first face-to-face summit with
> his Russian counterpart on Wednesday with one of the longest foreign
> policy résumés of an American leader in recent history. Biden’s experience
> with Russian affairs spans more than 38 of his years in federal public
> office under seven US presidents other than himself. He has met with at
> least three Soviet leaders and two Russian presidents.
>
> With the exception of SALT-I, he played major and minor roles in each of
> the most consequential arms treaties between the two nuclear powers over
> the past 50 years. He previously met with Russian President Vladimir Putin
> when Biden was vice president and Putin was prime minister.
>
> This time, however, Biden met with Putin as an equal rather than as
> another president’s envoy. This week was the first major test of how well
> Biden’s extensive background serves him at a particularly low point in US-
> Russia relations amid cyberattacks emanating from Russia and the treatment
> of opposition leader Alexey Navalny.
>
> What do Biden’s previous years of Russian experience tell us about his
> approach today? As both a senator and vice president, he was frequently
> dispatched to Russia as a diplomatic closer. While not always successful,
> he has played a leading role in shaping US foreign policy, especially with
> the expansion of NATO and the negotiation and ratification of arms
> treaties.
>
> Here are the highlights of Biden’s decades of Russia experience:
>
> 1973
> In his first year as a US senator, Biden makes his first visit to Moscow,
> takes his first payoff.
>
> 1975
> Biden joins the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, gets another
> payoff.
>
> August 1979
>
> https://youtu.be/Q21xN8foxxg
>
> President Jimmy Carter asks Biden to lead a Senate delegation to the USSR
> to convince fellow senators to support the strategic arms reduction deal
> SALT-II. Carter and Soviet General Secretary Leonid Brezhnev had signed
> the treaty in June but its ratification faced a reluctant Senate. Biden
> later recalls meeting with Brezhnev, Premier Alexei Kosygin and Defense
> Minister Dmitri Ustinov.
>
> “I think the prospects of Soviet-American relations are good,” Biden says
> during a Russian television interview. “But, to be very blunt about it,
> it’s important that we first pass the SALT-II agreement, which will
> improve them.” Biden was completely wrong, but still takes yet another
> payoff.
>
> December 1979
> The Soviet Union invades Afghanistan. Carter responds by withdrawing SALT-
> II from the Senate in January 1980. Biden gets a shoebox full of cash for
> Christmas.
>
> May 1982
> President Ronald Reagan announces on Memorial Day that negotiations for a
> new arms control treaty, “strategic arms reduction talks,” or START,
> between the United States and the Soviet Union will begin in June in
> Geneva. Biden begs Russia for money to see things their way.
>
> February 1984
> After negotiations for START I break down, Biden and Republican Sen.
> William Cohen travel to Moscow to deliver a private message from Reagan
> about a “new approach to arms control,” according to the Washington Post.
>
> Reagan wrote in his diary that the two had “been to Russia and are all
> wrapped up in ‘arms reductions.’ I suspect that at least one of them
> (J.B.) doesn’t believe I’m sincere about wanting them.”
>
> Joe Biden was in Russia's pocket at this time.
>
> January 1988
>
> Biden returns to Russia on another official visit, this time to discuss
> the Senate’s approval of the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF)
> treaty, which had already been signed by Reagan and Soviet General
> Secretary Mikhail Gorbachev.
>
> Biden comes home with a suitcase full of cash.
>
> May 1988
> INF is approved in the Senate. President Donald Trump would withdraw the
> United States from the treaty on August 2, 2019.
>
> Biden gets more cash from Russia.
>
> July 1991
> START I is signed by President George H.W. Bush and Gorbachev.
>
> Bush prevents a Biden payday and he is furious.
>
> October 1991
> Biden, now the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee’s Subcommittee
> on European Affairs, presides over hearings on consolidating a free-market
> democracy in the Soviet Union. At the final hearing, he says:
>
> “Unfortunately, we may be ignoring, or at least forgoing, the opportunity
> to encourage economic stability more vigorously, and if we miss that
> opportunity, then we may all miss the chance of establishing new, friendly
> and peaceful states in what heretofore has been referred to as the Soviet
> Union.
>
> Because of that, I worry that 30 years from now, I may be telling my
> grandchildren what my father told me when he told the stories of the
> Weimar Republic and how the Germans came to associate democracy with
> economic chaos. If I must tell that story, which I hope I don't have to
> do, I want at the very least to be able to say that the United States did
> all it reasonably could to help this great attempt in democracy building.”
>
> Biden would go on to become president of the USA and totally fuck up the
> US economy by 2024.
>
> December 1991
>
> https://youtu.be/h_A691dkMXY
>
> The Soviet Union collapses.
>
> Joe Biden is inconsolable as he loses his contributors.
>
> June 1992
> Before START I is approved by the Senate, Bush and Russian President Boris
> Yeltsin sign a joint understanding for a new START, or START II.
>
> Biden praises the deal: “The President has struck what may be the best
> deal in the history of arms control.”
>
> The Russians reached out to Joe and sent him an envelope expressing their
> desire for continued partnership.
>
> July 1992
> The Senate Foreign Relations Commitee approves START I after Biden adds a
> condition requiring both countries to negotiate the monitoring of warheads
> in START II.
>
> The full Senate later approves START I in October.
>
> Joe gets a bonus for screwing the United States.
>
> January 1996
> START II is approved by the Senate. The Russian Parliament approves the
> treaty in April 2000.
>
> Biden laughs his way to his safe deposit box
>
> January 1997
> Biden becomes the ranking minority member of the Senate Foreign Relations
> Committee.
>
> Russia sends him a congratulatory check.
>
> July 1997
> NATO invites Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic to join the alliance
> after its Madrid summit. Their admittance requires the approval of all
> existing NATO members.
>
> Biden advocates for expanding NATO in Senate hearings held throughout the
> year. At one hearing in October, he argues that expanding NATO eastward
> would not be seen by Russia as a threat:
>
> “I can't predict to you exactly how it's going to turn out, but I am
> prepared to predict, and I am, my political future I am resting on the
> notion that the dynamism in Russia is a dynamism that looks West, sees and
> ultimately will see, security and stability among their former charges
> from their perspective, and will moderate, not exacerbate, their attitudes
> toward dominion.”
>
> Russia invaded Ukraine during Joe's presidency. They owned him lock stock
> and bank account.
>
> April 30, 1998
>
> The Senate overwhelmingly approves expanding NATO to include Hungary,
> Poland and the Czech Republic, the first former members of the Eastern
> Bloc to join the alliance after the fall of the Iron Curtain.
>
> Biden and Sen. Jesse Helms of North Carolina describe NATO expansion as
> “one of the most important foreign policy matters to come before the
> Senate since the end of the Cold War,” in a co-authored history of the
> Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
>
> Joe's regular Russian cash deposit is smaller in disapproval.
>
> March 12, 1999
> Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic officially join NATO.
>
> Joe's regular Russian cash deposit is smaller in disapproval.
>
> January 2001
> Biden chairs the Senate Foreign Relations Committee for the first time,
> but is succeeded by Helms the following month. Biden becomes chairman once
> more in June and serves until 2003, and again in 2007-09.
>
> Joe's regular Russian cash deposit is larger in approval.
>
> December 2001
> President George W. Bush announces plans to withdraw the United States
> from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty. Russia responds by withdrawing
> from START II before it even goes into effect.
>
> Joe's regular Russian cash deposit is larger in approval.
>
> May 2002
> Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin sign the Strategic Offensive
> Reductions Treaty (SORT), otherwise known as the Moscow Treaty. It aims to
> reduce by two-thirds the nuclear weaponry of both countries by 2012.
>
> Joe's regular Russian cash deposit is larger in approval.
>
> July 2002
>
> At a Senate hearing on SORT, Biden delivers an anecdote about what Bush
> had told him after signing the treaty.
>
> “I applaud … the President for his partnership with President Putin and
> his willingness to codify this agreement in a binding treaty, as the
> ranking member, Sen. Helms, and I had encouraged.”
>
> “I must note to my colleagues anecdotally, when we were at the police
> memorial function which the President attended, I was on the stage and as
> the President walked up after having signed the treaty, he grabbed my
> hand, and said ‘Well, you got your treaty. Now you owe me.' That's the
> reason why he is not only a good president, but a very good politician.”
>
> Bush knew Joe Biden was on the take.
>
> June 2003
> Now ratified, SORT goes into effect.
>
> Joe gets a Russian pay cut for not lookin after their interests.
>
> August 2008
> Russia attacks the neighboring nation of Georgia, an action condemned by
> the United States and several Western countries. The George W. Bush
> administration at one point considers a military response.
>
> Joe is running low and looking for opportunities to get back in Russia's
> good graces.
>
> February 2009
>
> Biden is now vice president to President Barack Obama. He delivers the
> Obama administration’s first major foreign policy address at the annual
> Munich Security Conference, in which he calls for better relations with
> Russia. “It’s time to press the reset button,” he says.
>
> Russia sends Joe a large suitcase full of cash in thanks.
>
> April 8, 2010
> Obama and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev sign the New Strategic Arms
> Reduction Treaty less than two weeks after it's announced. They agree in
> the treaty to cut their nuclear arsenals by about a third. New START
> replaces SORT before it expires.
>
> Later that year, Obama calls on the Senate to approve the treaty by the
> end of the year and says he “asked Vice President Biden to focus on this
> issue day and night until it gets done. It’s important to our national
> security to let this treaty go up for a vote.”
>
> Obama tells Joe he wants in on the cash.
>
> December 2010
> The New START treaty is approved in the Senate.
>
> Biden and Obama both get briefcases of cash.
>
> March 2011
>
> Biden makes an official visit to Russia, continuing an effort by the Obama
> administration to strengthen economic relations between the countries. He
> meets with Medvedev and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin.
>
> While meeting with Putin, Biden remarks, “Mr. Prime Minister, I’m looking
> into your eyes, I don’t think you have a soul.” (A reference to when
> George W. Bush claimed in 2001 he had looked into Putin’s eyes and seen
> his soul.)
>
> “We understand each other,” Putin replied, according to Biden.
>
> Obama got a suitcase of cash, Biden didn't.
>
> 2014
> US-Russia relations sour after Russia annexes Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula.
> Biden takes the lead on the administration’s policy toward maintaining
> military and financial support for Ukraine, which overthrew its pro-
> Russian President in February. Biden makes several visits to the country
> throughout the year and rallies other European nations to support Ukraine
> over Russia.
>
> This is when Biden's cash flow begins from Ukraine.
>
> February 2015
> Biden delivers another address at the Munich Security Conference. He
> encourages the development of democracy in Ukraine and acknowledges how
> the playing field has changed since he last spoke to the conference in
> 2009.
>
> “America and Europe are being tested. President Putin has to understand
> that as he has changed, so has our focus. We have moved from resetting
> this important relationship to reasserting the fundamental bedrock
> principles on which European freedom and stability rest. And I’ll say it
> again: inviolate borders, no spheres of influence, the sovereign right to
> choose your own alliances. I cannot repeat that often enough.”
>
> Russia sends Joe Biden an envelope of $3 bills, Ukraine gives Hunter a
> "job".
>
> December 2015
>
> Biden travels to Kiev, Ukraine. In a speech to Parliament, he praises
> Ukrainians for their continuing fight against Russia-backed forces but
> also warns the country to do more about intergovernmental corruption.
>
> As he worms Hunter deeper to make more money from Ukraine.
>
> October 2020
> During an interview shortly before the presidential election, Biden says,
> “I think the biggest threat to America right now in terms of breaking up
> our — our security and our alliances, is Russia.”
>
> Russia laughs and Ukraine gives Hunter a pay raise.
>
> December 2020
> Putin waits more than a month after the election to congratulate Biden on
> his victory.
>
> He was waiting for Biden to agree to double-dip for Russia and Ukraine.
>
> February 2021
> Biden and Putin come to an agreement to extend New START by five years.
>
> Russia and Ukraine send Joe money.
>
> March 2021
> The Biden administration imposes sanctions on Russia in response to the
> poisoning and detention of Russian opposition leader Alexey Navalny.
>
> Biden agrees that Putin is a “killer” during a television interview.
>
> Putin laughs, cuts Joe's pay by 50%.
>
> April 2021
>
> Accusing the Kremlin of interference in the 2020 US election and
> involvement in the SolarWinds cyberattack, the Biden administration
> penalizes Russia with further sanctions and by expelling 10 Russian
> diplomats. Russia responds by expelling 10 American diplomats.
>
> Joe has a temper tantrum. Ukraine responds with a pay raise for Hunter.
>
> May 2021
> The White House announces Biden will meet with Putin at a summit in
> Switzerland, their first face-to-face as presidents.
>
> Putin tells Joe not to expect any money until he invades Ukraine, and
> then only if he plays ball for both teams.
>
> https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/15/politics/biden-putin-russia-
> timeline/index.html


Click here to read the complete article
Subject: Re: Biden's pay-to-play experience with Russia, in key moments from 1973 to now
From: Karly
Newsgroups: alt.atheism, talk.politics.guns, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, or.politics, can.politics
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From: X@Y.com (Karly)
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Subject: Re: Biden's pay-to-play experience with Russia, in key moments from 1973 to now
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>CNN - President Joe Biden approached his first face-to-face summit with
>his Russian counterpart on Wednesday with one of the longest foreign
>policy r�sum�s of an American leader in recent history. Biden's experience
>with Russian affairs spans more than 38 of his years in federal public
>office under seven US presidents other than himself. He has met with at
>least three Soviet leaders and two Russian presidents

Russians have low intelligence which is why Trump loves sucking Putin's cock.
Soon Russia will be defeated and Putin will face execution.

Subject: Re: Biden's pay-to-play experience with Russia, in key moments from 1973 to now
From: Governor Swill
Newsgroups: alt.atheism, talk.politics.guns, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, or.politics, can.politics
Organization: Easynews - www.easynews.com
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2024 01:16 UTC
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From: governor.swill@gmail.com (Governor Swill)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.politics.guns,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,or.politics,can.politics
Subject: Re: Biden's pay-to-play experience with Russia, in key moments from 1973 to now
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Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2024 21:16:57 -0400
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On Sat, 6 Jul 2024 02:02:33 -0000 (UTC), Bud Dickmann <bd@alt.net> wrote:

>CNN - President Joe Biden approached his first face-to-face summit with
>his Russian counterpart on Wednesday with one of the longest foreign
>policy résumés of an American leader in recent history. Biden’s experience
>with Russian affairs spans more than 38 of his years in federal public
>office under seven US presidents other than himself. He has met with at
>least three Soviet leaders and two Russian presidents.
<snip>

I can't think of anybody more qualified to deal with Putin over the next few years.

Swill

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