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alt / alt.atheism / Re: Yes, God Imparts Saving Faith in Christ, Through Scripture

On 5/05/2024 11:52 am, ChristRose wrote:
> Some foolishly try to undermine the
> Bible, claiming to the effect that
> saving faith is faith in the person of
> Christ, not faith in the Scripture, as
> if the two were opposed to one another,
> and one's faith had to either be in
> Christ, or in Scripture. This is a lie
> and false dichotomy that seeks to
> undermine the Scriptures. That God
> gives people saving faith in Christ
> through the proclamation of the
> word of God, seems evident from the
> following considerations:
>
> To begin, which "Christ" does one have
> to believe in to be saved? Only the
> Christ revealed to us in Scripture can
> save us. You can't get saved by some
> other "Christ" that is not revealed to
> us by Scripture.
>
> Second, if you don't trust what the
> Bible says, why would you put your faith
> in the Christ revealed to you in
> Scripture? You wouldn't. You have to
> believe what the Bible says is true
> before you will put your faith in the
> Christ of Scripture.
>
> Thirdly, the Scriptures are God
> breathed, they tell you that the word of
> God and Holy Scriptures are the means by
> which God imparts saving faith in the
> person of Christ to the believer:
>
> “having been born again, not of
> corruptible seed but incorruptible,
> through the word of God which lives and
> abides forever,” (1 Peter 1:23, NKJV)
>
> [Saving faith in the person of Christ
> comes through the written word of God.]
>
> “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of
> Christ, for it is the power of God to
> salvation for everyone who believes, for
> the Jew first and also for the Greek.”
> (Romans 1:16, NKJV)
>
> [Saving faith in Christ comes through
> the proclamation of the gospel of
> Christ.]
>
> “So then faith comes by hearing, and
> hearing by the word of God.” (Romans
> 10:17, NKJV)
>
> [Saving faith in Christ comes through
> hearing the word of God proclaimed.]
>
> “but these are written that you may
> believe that Jesus is the Christ, the
> Son of God, and that believing you may
> have life in His name.” (John 20:31,
> NKJV)
>
> [Saving faith in Christ comes through
> what is written about Him in Scripture]
>
> “and that from childhood you have known
> the Holy Scriptures, which are able to
> make you wise for salvation through
> faith which is in Christ Jesus.” (2
> Timothy 3:15, NKJV)
>
> [Here again, saving faith in Christ,
> comes through the "Holy Scriptures"]
>
> Thus, only a fool would promote a false
> dichotomy and lie that seeks to
> undermine the very means by which God
> imparts saving faith in Christ, to the
> believer, which is through the
> proclamation of the word of God.

God does not impart faith through the proclamation of the written word,
but through the revelation of His presence through His Holy Spirit.
Knowing Him and having faith in Him as a Person become the cornerstone
of salvation.

Claiming scriptures cannot save anyone. Obviously, it hasn't with
ChristRose because he continues to mistreat and abuse the Lord with his
own will be done. I don't know what he thinks sin is—some small mistake
or a minor piece of stupidity? No, it is an ABOMINATION; it is the
setting aside, the rejection of God's will!

Anyway, he won't listen to anything other than the sound of his own
sinner voice, but reader, understand, only faith in a personal
relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ saves, as the scriptures declare.

John 5:39-40
You pore over the Scriptures because you presume that by them you
possess eternal life. These are the very words that testify about Me,
yet you refuse to come to Me to have life.

Not, come to My scriptures, come to Me!

If the penny ever drops with ChristRose, then he'll see what he really
is, a liar and the thief.

Michael Christ

--
God is God in all His Being.

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30 I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance (voice, the Person) of
God. When you find Him you have found the author."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that a sinner could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

What does a fool do? A fool looks for a "nothing" in a "something" in
order to explain the existence of existence.

"Unless you do all because He is who He is, all your religion is in vain."

"Every man is subject to God; He judges every man, and He is reality.
What a gift in a fallen world!"

"Love MUST be a choice or it is nothing but a law!"

"Why were all men born sinners? So that God could reveal Himself, so
that we would behold the glory of God, and that we should bring forth
the glory of God"

"God does not and will not arbitrate for any man to love Him! If God
isn't everything to you, He is nothing to you where the rubber meets the
road."

Click here to read the complete article

On 6/05/2024 4:45 am, ChristRose wrote:
> ========================
> On Sun, 5 May 2024 16:59:35 +1000,
> Article:<v17aoo$1nf3o$1@dont-email.me>,
> Michael Christ wrote:
> ========================
>
>> On 5/05/2024 11:52 am, ChristRose wrote:
>>> Some foolishly try to undermine the
>>> Bible, claiming to the effect that
>>> saving faith is faith in the person of
>>> Christ, not faith in the Scripture, as
>>> if the two were opposed to one another,
>>> and one's faith had to either be in
>>> Christ, or in Scripture. This is a lie
>>> and false dichotomy that seeks to
>>> undermine the Scriptures. That God
>>> gives people saving faith in Christ
>>> through the proclamation of the
>>> word of God, seems evident from the
>>> following considerations:
>>>
>>> To begin, which "Christ" does one have
>>> to believe in to be saved? Only the
>>> Christ revealed to us in Scripture can
>>> save us. You can't get saved by some
>>> other "Christ" that is not revealed to
>>> us by Scripture.
>>>
>>> Second, if you don't trust what the
>>> Bible says, why would you put your faith
>>> in the Christ revealed to you in
>>> Scripture? You wouldn't. You have to
>>> believe what the Bible says is true
>>> before you will put your faith in the
>>> Christ of Scripture.
>>>
>>> Thirdly, the Scriptures are God
>>> breathed, they tell you that the word of
>>> God and Holy Scriptures are the means by
>>> which God imparts saving faith in the
>>> person of Christ to the believer:
>>>
>>> “having been born again, not of
>>> corruptible seed but incorruptible,
>>> through the word of God which lives and
>>> abides forever,” (1 Peter 1:23, NKJV)
>>>
>>> [Saving faith in the person of Christ
>>> comes through the written word of God.]
>>>
>>> “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of
>>> Christ, for it is the power of God to
>>> salvation for everyone who believes, for
>>> the Jew first and also for the Greek.”
>>> (Romans 1:16, NKJV)
>>>
>>> [Saving faith in Christ comes through
>>> the proclamation of the gospel of
>>> Christ.]
>>>
>>> “So then faith comes by hearing, and
>>> hearing by the word of God.” (Romans
>>> 10:17, NKJV)
>>>
>>> [Saving faith in Christ comes through
>>> hearing the word of God proclaimed.]
>>>
>>> “but these are written that you may
>>> believe that Jesus is the Christ, the
>>> Son of God, and that believing you may
>>> have life in His name.” (John 20:31,
>>> NKJV)
>>>
>>> [Saving faith in Christ comes through
>>> what is written about Him in Scripture]
>>>
>>> “and that from childhood you have known
>>> the Holy Scriptures, which are able to
>>> make you wise for salvation through
>>> faith which is in Christ Jesus.” (2
>>> Timothy 3:15, NKJV)
>>>
>>> [Here again, saving faith in Christ,
>>> comes through the "Holy Scriptures"]
>>>
>>> Thus, only a fool would promote a false
>>> dichotomy and lie that seeks to
>>> undermine the very means by which God
>>> imparts saving faith in Christ, to the
>>> believer, which is through the
>>> proclamation of the word of God.
>>
>> God does not impart faith through the proclamation of the written word,
>
>
> Since the beginning, Satan has been
> trying to undermine God's word, to lead
> people in the wrong path. "Yea, hath God
> said?". Your mere denial doesn't
> constitute some authority that negates
> and overrides all those plain Bible
> statements. This is how I know you are
> being manipulated by Satan. He's been
> trying to deny and undermine the word of
> God since the beginning.
>
>
>> but through the revelation of His presence through His Holy Spirit.
>> Knowing Him and having faith in Him as a Person become the cornerstone
>> of salvation.
>
>
> The Spirit uses Scripture to bring
> people to saving faith in Christ:

You don't see, ChristRose, and you can't swim. You are not capable of
swimming in the pool without assistance, you'll drown.

Bring people to Whom?

That is that the scripture did for me. And, for example, that is what
the scripture did for Paul.

Michael Christ

>
> “In Him you also trusted, after you
> heard the word of truth, the gospel of
> your salvation; in whom also, having
> believed, you were sealed with the Holy
> Spirit of promise,” (Ephesians 1:13,
> NKJV)
>
> "In Him you trusted also, AFTER you
> heard the word of truth". What is the
> "word of truth"? "the gospel of your
> salvation". You don't get to deny that
> with any degree of credibility with me.
>
> Again,
>
> “Let me now remind you, dear brothers
> and sisters, of the Good News I preached
> to you before. You welcomed it then, and
> you still stand firm in it. It is this
> Good News that saves you if you continue
> to believe the message I told
> you—unless, of course, you believed
> something that was never true in the
> first place. I passed on to you what was
> most important and what had also been
> passed on to me. Christ died for our
> sins, just as the Scriptures said. He
> was buried, and he was raised from the
> dead on the third day, just as the
> Scriptures said.” (1 Corinthians 15:1–4,
> NLT)
>
> The gospel is "the Good News that saves
> you". What is the gospel? Is the gospel
> that you should "trust in Scriptures,
> but not Christ"? No, it is the gospel
> that tells people Christ died for their
> sins and rose the third day, "ACCORDING
> TO THE SCRIPTURES" (emphasis mine).
>
> ALL the Scriptures point to Christ for
> salvation:
>
> “And beginning at Moses and all the
> Prophets, He expounded to them in all
> the Scriptures the things concerning
> Himself.” (Luke 24:27, NKJV)
>
> You cannot receive saving faith in Jesus
> Christ, through any other means than
> through faith in what God's word says
> about Christ.
>
>
>> Claiming scriptures cannot save anyone.
>
>
> I never said "claiming scriptures" saves
> someone. I said what the Bible says,
> which is that faith in Christ comes by
> hearing, and hearing by the word of God
> (Romans 10:17).
>
>
>> The gospel message "is the power of God unto salvation" (Romans 1:16).
>> Obviously, it hasn't with ChristRose because he continues to mistreat and
>> abuse the Lord with his own will be done.
>
>
> You have demonstrated no such thing, and
> you cannot apart from the Scriptures
> Satan told you to walk away from. That's
> why you walk in darkness.
>
>
>> I don't know what he thinks sin is—some small mistake
>> or a minor piece of stupidity? No, it is an ABOMINATION; it is the
>> setting aside, the rejection of God's will!
>
>
> If you knew what sin was, you would not
> suffer from the delusion that you have
> never sinned once in the last 37 years,
> and you would start confessing your
> daily sins to God, as He told you to (1
> John 1:8-9). Only in the darkness could
> you look right at your sin, and not
> notice it.
>
>
>
>> Anyway, he won't listen to anything other than the sound of his own
>> sinner voice,
>
>
> You're the one who doesn't listen to
> Scripture, but rather his own voice. At
> least you've admitted you walked away
> from it:
>
> ===========================
> On Mon, 1 Jan 2024 14:40:42 +1100,
> Michael Christ
> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com wrote:
> <umtc7p$1ttdk$2@dont-email.me
>
> the words of God cannot save you.
> ===========================
>
> =============================
> On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 11:50:03 +1100,
> Michael McLean
> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com wrote:
> <tid041$28bap$7@dont-email.me>
>
> the Lord told me to put the bible down
> in faith...
> =============================
>
> ==========================
> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 12:39:35 +1100,
> Michael Christ
> <michaelmclean2021@outlook.com wrote:
> <uohsko$3sojt$1@dont-email.me>
>
> It is no wonder to me why He told me to
> put the bible down!
> ==========================
>
> ========================
> On Sun, 5 May 2024 08:29:45 +1000,
> Article:<v16csq$1dhi1$1@dont-email.me>,
> Michael Christ wrote:
> ========================
>
> Many years ago, when the Lord began
> speaking to me through His Spirit,
> rather when I was ready to hear Him in
> His Spirit, He told me to put my
> Bible down.
>
> [Which "Lord" are you talking about? The
> one in the Bible, or the one you started
> ignoring when you walked away from the
> Bible? Like Chung, you make up your own
> ideas, then claim they came from the
> "Holy Spirit", even though they
> contradict the plain, Holy Spirit
> inspired teachings of the Bible]
>
> I was thrown out of whack for a time,
>
> [That was evidently the last time you
> had the God-given conscience to realize
> that what you were doing is out of whack
> with God's will as revealed in
> Scripture.]
>
> but when I did, I heard and saw
> Him in my daily life more and more.
>
> [Translation: Satan's lies started
> making more sense to me, the further
> away I got from Scripture.]
>
> Curiously, I lost my Bible at first,
> and then I found it on top of my
> wardrobe but then I lost it again. Go
> figure. So, in reality, I didn't put it
> down, the Lord took it away.
>
> [Don't blame God that you walked away
> from the Bible. Nothing in the Bible
> indicates real believers treasure the
> Bible (Psalm 119). This shows that your
> understanding at that time was not being
> guided by Scripture, but by your own
> ideas. We know who has been trying to
> undermine God's word since the
> beginning.
>
> You now admit:]
>
> I know, I could have bought or read
> another one, but the time had come.
>
> [The time for you to abandon truth in
> favor of your own imagination.]
>
> Anyway, one of the reasons why the Lord
> told me to put it down
>
> [What "Lord"? The one revealed to us in
> the Bible or the one revealed to you in
> your Satanically manipulated mind while
> you admit you were not reading the
> Bible?]
>
> [was because in the Bible I only saw
> what I wanted to see]
>
> And now you only see what you want to
> see in your own imagination, apart from
> the Bible. You admit that even when you
> were looking at the truth of God's word,
> you were "only seeing what I wanted to
> see". So instead of walking away from
> seeing what you wanted to see in the
> Bible, you decided to walk away from
> what the Bible actually says, in favor
> of what you wanted to see. We're
> supposed to think you've became more
> faithful to what God wants you to do,
> AFTER you put what He tells you He wants
> you to do down and walked away from it?]
>
> and only listened to what I wanted to
> hear. That is the bane, the curse of
> being a sinner,
>
> [And that's the bane you still walk in.
> "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by
> the word of God" (Romans 10:17). That's
> why you put the Bible down and walked
> away from it, is because you didn't want
> to hear what it says. You wanted to
> walk in the imagination of your own
> heart, without the truth of Scripture
> interfering with that.]
>
> you see. You are focused on what you
> want to hear and see, so you can't
> hear and see clearly what the Lord is
> saying and revealing to you.
>
> [Now he makes a vicarious confession of
> his own admitted sin, by trying to
> impute it to others. Faith comes by
> hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
> Yet you don't want to hear the word of
> God, so you walked away from it in favor
> of your own imagination. Romans 1
> describes what happens to people when
> they do this. They don't like to retain
> the knowledge of God, so they suppress
> it with deeds of unrighteousness. Then
> they start worshipping the creature
> (themselves) rather than the creator, so
> God abandons them to their corruption.]
>
> You just have to trust in Him and not
> lean on your own understanding.
>
> [You're the one leaning on your own
> understanding when you put your Bible
> down and walked away from it, fool!
>
> You admitted that when you read the
> Bible, you didn't want to hear it, but
> only listened to what you wanted to
> hear. Then you put your Bible down and
> walked away from it. How convenient! Now
> all you hear is what you want to hear
> and what Satan whispers in your ear.
>
> This is also how you came to the
> delusion that you never sin. 1 John
> 1:8-9 says you are "self-deceived" and
> that you have neither the word of God
> nor the truth in you, as you make God
> out to be a liar by denying your sin
> nature and the need to confess your sins
> to God.]
>
>
> And when I say trust, I really mean
> "trust," the kind of trust that
> makes you fear and wonder where the hell
> He is taking you!
>
> Faith.
>
> [...comes by hearing, and hearing by the
> word of God (Romans 1:16; 10:17, etc.).
>
> But the Lord consoled me by telling me
> this: "I will not lead you to
> destruction." And here is the kicker: He
> WAS leading me to
> destruction”the destruction of my
> "self," my will, but not the
> destruction of my soul.
>
> You can see God doing that right
> throughout the bible with people.
>
> [You'd be wise to pick your Bible back
> up and start hearing what it says,
> instead of listening to your own ideas
> that you want to hear, and that Satan
> has been whispering into your ear.]
>
>
> Michael Christ
> ========================
>
>
>
>
>> but reader, understand, only faith in a personal
>> relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ saves, as the scriptures declare.
>
>
> Twisted, Satanic liar. Faith in Jesus
> Christ comes by hearing, and hearing by
> the word of God (Romans 1:16; 10:17,
> etc.).
>
>
>> John 5:39-40
>> You pore over the Scriptures because you presume that by them you
>> possess eternal life. These are the very words that testify about Me,
>> yet you refuse to come to Me to have life.
>
>
> Self and Satanically deceived liar and
> twister of the Scriptures. As the
> Pharisees, you have missed the second
> half of the verse:
>
> These are the very words ["the
> Scriptures"] that testify about Me, yet
> you refuse to come to Me to have life."
>
> Their mistake was not in pouring over
> the Scriptures, but in refusing to
> believe the words of Scripture pointed
> to Christ for salvation.
>
>
>> Not, come to My scriptures, come to Me!
>
>
> --Satanically blinded and twisted liar.
> "Faith [in Christ] comes by hearing, and
> hearing by the word of God" (Romans
> 10:17). "it is the power of God unto
> salvation". By God's design, you can
> only come to saving faith in Christ,
> through what the Word of God say about
> Christ. There is no other power, means,
> or message by which God has chosen to
> save men, than through faith in what the
> Bible says about Christ (Romans 1:16).
>
>
>> If the penny ever drops with ChristRose, then he'll see what he really
>> is, a liar and the thief.
>
>
> ========================
> On Sun, 5 May 2024 19:59:01 +1000,
> Article:<v17l95$1pcu2$1@dont-email.me>,
> Michael Christ wrote:
> ========================
> Lots of people make up stuff about lots
> of things because they don't know what
> to believe. I understand the dilemma.
> ========================
>
> That about sums up your ministry here.
> That's what you get for listening to
> Satan's lies, putting your Bible down
> and walking away.
>
>
>> Michael Christ
>
>
> --
> Have you heard the good news Christ died
> for our sins (†), and God raised Him
> from the dead?
>
> That Christ died for our sins shows
> we're sinners who deserve the death
> penalty. That God raised Him from the
> dead shows Christ's death satisfied
> God's righteous demands against our sin
> (Romans 3:25; 1 John 2:1-2). This means
> God can now remain just, while forgiving
> you of your sins, and saving you from
> eternal damnation.

Click here to read the complete article

On 6/05/2024 7:08 am, ChristRose wrote:
> ========================
> On Sun, 05 May 2024 13:45:01 -0500,
> Article:<rr1f3jp34k56m9ve4m82fgb8lalogi8enh@christrose>,
> ChristRose wrote:
> ========================
>
>> Nothing in the Bible
>> indicates real believers treasure the
>> Bible (Psalm 119).
>
>
> Should be "everything" in the Bible
> indicates real believers treasure the
> Bible (Psalm 119).

You need to treasure only the One who ===>>> "it" <<<=== speaks about.

You speak of the bible like it is some kind of transubstantiation, it is
not.

(The Message Bible)
John 5:39 "You have your heads in your Bibles constantly because you
think you'll find eternal life there. But you miss the forest for the
trees. These Scriptures are all about me!
John 5:40 And here I am, standing right before you, and you aren't
willing to receive from me the life you say you want.

For God's sake, will you just stop fighting? You can't win; you're a
sinner; a sinner is wrong. You only see through that lens and only what
you want to see.

Saul/Paul was the same, we all were.

Michael Christ

>
>
> --
> Have you heard the good news Christ died
> for our sins (†), and God raised Him
> from the dead?
>
> That Christ died for our sins shows
> we're sinners who deserve the death
> penalty. That God raised Him from the
> dead shows Christ's death satisfied
> God's righteous demands against our sin
> (Romans 3:25; 1 John 2:1-2). This means
> God can now remain just, while forgiving
> you of your sins, and saving you from
> eternal damnation.